Indoor Pattern Competition
 

Well as everyone knows we already have plenty of competition for indoor 3D and sport competition, but none for us pilots that enjoy pattern competition.

So Im curious about the interest in this. If response is good, I might try to get something organized.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

Bdavidson, everyone I have flown with wants to get something going. Shoot, everywhere in America there is a good place to fly indoors. If you start it, this will be the biggest flying sanctioned competition series out there. Imac, Imaa, and everything else I don't think can compare. So I voted YES:D

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

So far I like the responses. Well, its time to get things moving along. Im gonna talk to Tony Stillman and see how they got NSRCA started. I think the first place to start would be forming a Special Interest Group off the AMA. This way we can get the benefits and help of the AMA backing things up. Then find and choose a format.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

Seems to me that you have that backwards. You don't build a clubhouse first and then see if anyone is interested in belonging to the club....do you? First get some contests together and see if there really is enough interest for there to be a Sig. I know what you're thinking, what rules will I have, what sequences will we fly? Talk to some people and then make someting up. From there you can begin to refine things. At some point you'll have a good feel for how things will be and then you can approch the AMA about a Sig.

Wiz

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

Actually I had already planned on that. Im going to a pattern event this weekend to jot down some stuff and get an idea of what all we need. We will probably have a indoor pattern meet here sometime soon. The idea has been floating around for a while now. The ENTIRE maneuver pattern has to be changed from the glow patterns we have now. Many of those maneuvers just simply cannot be done indoors. Things like stall turn 1 1/4roll up, 3/4 roll down exit invert....well unless your flying in a gym with 150ft ceilings...thats just not going to happen.

The question now is making a pattern format that isnt too easy, but isnt impossible. It has to offer a challenge but be capable of flying in small gymnasiums, as not everyone has a blimp hanger. Im thinking classes too just like regular pattern events. I think what its really going to come down to is "box" size, and making a pattern that you can transition from one maneuver to the next without having to exit/reenter the box after every maneuver.

Its going to be interesting...and probably LOTS of work. We will see.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

Well, I'm interested in doing some indoor pattern flying. Most of the guys I fly indoor with are concentrating on flying 3D. Basically, because that can be done in a limited space and not the entire flying area. I wonder how many of those guys would be interested in indoor pattern? Since the indoor season is basically over up this way, it looks like it will be fall before I see enough of them again to get any feel for it.

Wiz

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

Here's what I was thinking for the Novice/Sportsman pattern. These maneuvers should be able to be done in even the smallest of gyms.

Takeoff
Level flight back
One half cuban 8
One half reverse cuban 8
Stall turn into flatspin on down
One inside loop
One square loop
Stall turn
One full roll
Two Knife-edge circuits
Two Flat turn circles 6ft max diameter
Hover- (since hovering is so popular with indoor fliers, why not allow it as a pattern maneuver. With points for vertical angle, stability, maintaining altitude, etc.
Landing

Advanced pattern....hmmmm

Takeoff
Level flight back
Reverse cuban 8
Stall turn 1/2 roll up, exit invert
Outside loop
Stall turn 1/2 roll up, exit upright.
Avalanche with one pos/neg snap roll at top.
Exit box
Enter box
Humpty bump 1/4 roll up, exit knife-edge
Two Knife-edge circuits
Two flat turn circles 6ft max diameter.
Pilots option
Landing.

What'da think. Too hard, not hard enough? Just remember that all the manuvers have to be capable of being done in VERY small gyms. All of the above are capable in our gym. Ceilings at about 20-25ft, and single basketball court size with basketball goal obstructions.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

why not just adopt F3Ai? It is used in Europe. Seems like a good starting point.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

hmmm....

Because then all the guys that have the F3A pattern finely tuned and memorized will come over and dominate the event. The idea is to have a pattern that levels the playing field. So the younger 3D flyers can compete too without being thrashed and dashed by the "old timers" that have been flying that pattern for years.

By mixing some 3D type maneuvers with existing pattern stuff, its going to really level the field. The sport3D pilots will have to learn to fly pattern maneuvers and do so smoothly, and the pattern flyers will have to learn how to hover.:D

My whole purpose for this is to get the parkflyer/electric group into some AMA sanctioned competition, instead of invitational only meets. This serves two purposes. One, it will get the parkflyer/electric folks to want to join the AMA to compete in these events. Two, it will start what may end up being the only non-invitational competition the electric flyers have.

Ive been flying electrics here for 3-4 months. I havent seen or heard about one single indoor competition locally. The closest one lately was Memphis TN, and I think it was invitation only. That really ticks me off. Fun-flys are fun, but I want to get all my buddies, and go out and have a little friendly competition without having to get a invitation to a meet, or be one of the good ol boy's...or even be a master's class pilot.

It just seems that the current AMA has everything set-up so that only the rich or well-known pilots get to compete. Us po' little weekend flyers want a piece of that action too. Competition should not be reserved for the rich and famous.

The current AMA has done little to none for the parkflyers and electric fliers. We've been put on the back burner while they are busy writing rules to keep the slimer flyers from killing themselves, and changing the fees to pay for that ediface in Muncie. So maybe we will just have to do it for ourselves.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

One other thing.

Have you ever gone to a pattern event and almost fell asleep out of boredom. The only time the spectators cheered was after each landing, and only because it was obligatory.

Its time to get the spectators involved too.

Do you know why its so boring for spectators to watch a pattern event.

Because they dont understand it. They dont understand the judging, they dont understand the scoring...they dont understand how the game is played.
Its like someone going to a baseball game, and they have no idea how the game is played. They are just going to sit there in confusion wondering why the batter doesnt tackle the 1st baseman like they would in football.

So how do you fix this. Tell the spectators how the game is played. Explain the maneuvers, and what each is scored on.....and heres the real kicker...
Have a "People's Choice" where the spectators can get involved and score each maneuver themselves.

Ive got some ideas that are really unorthodox ways of setting up a pattern competition, but maybe thats what we need.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

indoor is a very different thing. The F3AI-A pattern has a torque roll in it. Check it out.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

Here's a link to a video of a plane flying the f3ai-a pattern. very cool.

http://www.slow-flyer.net/video/slowride_f3ai-a.wmv

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

Thats what were talking about. Precision flying at its best. very cool. I like many aspects of electric flying. Bill

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

I talked to Tony today about this. He thinks we should just use the existing F3Ai pattern. I dont think so. I see quite a few problems with this.

One I want everyone to be able to try competing. And by using the current F3Ai...its going to eliminate quite a few potential competitors right from the beginning and venue's are going to be difficult to obtain.

There are no classes in F3Ai pattern. The pattern is not exactly easy for most flyers. It contains a one roll rolling circle. There MAY be 2 people here in pensacola that could pull it off, and most likely not with any precision. The second problem is that some of the maneuvers simply cannot be performed in a small gymnasium. It would take a EXTREMELY high class pilot to even attempt some of those maneuvers in our gym, much less be able to fly them precisely enough for competition. We simply dont have the room. If we choose that pattern, its going to not only eliminate the flyers that cant perform it, but also eliminate lots of potential venues.

So here's the problem. The only established indoor pattern is the F3Ai, which is nice, but wont work with our situation. There is no current AMA indoor pattern.
This means that not only will we have to muster up enough participation to get things rolling, but also have to draw up an ENTIRELY new pattern and rules, along with garnishing enough people that are willing to learn a new routine.
Holding it as a AMA sanctioned event wont be a problem, but getting the AMA to adopt it as a standard is going to be a *****.

So how many of you are willing to learn a new pattern? And if your willing, will you compete?

There is another problem I think I have a solution for. Traveling to contests.
Dont take this the wrong way, but indoor/parkflyers in general are very static. They dont like to travel very far to go fly. If we make a contest that requires contestants to travel all over the US long distances to compete....we will lose alot of the interest.

What I was thinking was holding local contests all over the nation. Each club in each city, could have a contest. The best scoring ones from each city would go to a district contest, and then eventually to a national one.
This means at a worst case scenario, you would only have to make two long trips instead of 20 like some of the current pattern contests.

Tony basically told me he wasnt interested in getting this started, which is ok, because hes already got lots on his plate. But I am going to need some help, there are things about the AMA I dont understand, and I could sure use someone with a good understanding about these things to help out. But I need someone with the time and desire to do this.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

HI there,

I'm living in Holland/Europe, and what we have seen here is that the indoor precision flying has climbed to an incredible level in only a few years.

about three years ago, there where two classes, a basic and expert class. On most competetions both classes where flown. But surprisingly most 'basic' pilots moved up to the expert class in only one year of competing.

My point is: I think the pilots that are realy into pattern (being indoor or outdoor) will practice the manouvers and learn quicly. To keep them sharp a set of manouvres like the current F3A-I is needed because the 'basic' manouvers will be 'boaring' after you are able to fly them.

It's very impressive to see how well the F3A-I program is flown is such a small place.


So why not start with some simple 'basic' and 'export' classes, just to get the people up and flying. Take care the judging is done correct, be fare and strict, this will cause low scores in the beginning, but at least the pilots now where and what to improve. This will quickly move the whole level of flying to a much higher level. Then , for the pilots who really get into it, use the F3A-I (or F3P as it is called by the FAI, P from PICCO) to get those pilots to fly.

Then you will have a nice growing path, from basic, to expert to F3A-I.

I think it's wise to standardize the basic and expert classes so people can practice. Because of the small place your are flying in, a lot of timing is involved that can only be gained by practicing a lot.

Have fun....

Winfried de Vries

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

I really want to have a basic pattern for beginners. This is VERY important. I want EVERYONE to be able to participate, not just the experts. Its going to be hard enough to get folks involved in the beginning, and making a pattern thats too difficult for beginners will just make it harder.

Basically, Im going to come up with two classes of patterns. A Novice, and a Advanced pattern. The pattern and rules, will be published, and flyers will start going out. It will just be a local event at first.....test the waters. In order to give people plenty of time to practice and learn the new patterns, the first event will probably be in October. During which time Im going to have to find a venue to hold the event.

All the rules and final pattern and dates will be posted up here so everyone can see them. Im going to try to keep it as simple as possible.

Hope to see you all there :D
Bryan

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

I am very interested in particiapting in indoor and or park flyer pattern events. I have even considered trying to start something myself. Did you get any where with this?

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

I would love this! Also so you guys know the 2006 E-TOC we will be flying both Sequences and Freestyle instead 100% of the raw score coming from the Freestyle.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

So far we havent had any organized event yet. Ive quickly found out how too many projects can lead to none of them ever getting completed. Unfortunatly this has been on the back burner for a while now. I do still want to do it though.

One of the other problems that Ive run into is that if we have this as a local event, there are about maybe 5-6 people here that could fly these maneuvers.

I think I could get Tony Stillman, possibly Steve Rojecki, myself, Bill Altman, and maybe a few others, but the pattern is still something thats up in the air.
Since the last posting, we've developed some new airplanes that would probably be capable of flying the F3Ai pattern even in our small gym, but not everyone has one of those planes, and they aren't kitted anywhere. Could be interesting.

Tony Stillman is scheduling a local electric indoor fly-in event, so we will see how that works out. Im hoping he includes a little freestyle 3D competition, as Id like to get a piece of that action.

RE: Indoor Pattern Competition
 

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