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Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
This is for any one that has a problem with their PA Extra 260. This is a very good plane, but there are issues with some of them, and now's a good time to solve them.
One problem is wing rock. Besides the obvious, 1st check for warps I had one in each ail. The rep from PA told me less expo helps too (more responsive) depending on your stick length and your personal preference. Also just being a small plane with little 3D experience. Any other suggestions would help very much . There is another problem with my 260 it flies tail heavy no matter what the cg 90mm 100mm doesn't matter. I'm not saying it is tail heavy, but just flies that way in regular flight. I am trying to get this resolved with PA. I might need a new fuselage I don't know yet. I have about 2mm down trim for level flight at 1/2 throttle. full throttle it climes like a banshee from level flight w/o any input. Landing requires even more down trim just to get the plane to settle in. If i don't give it down trim I have to fly it down risking the plane on landing. If there is any wind at all forget about flyng, I mean landing, it's a handful to say the least, but has to be done (I live in the desert that's always windy). I'm pretty good at landing anything else, but this one. I think it's my plane in particular, and maybe others also. The plane has bad coupling to the bottom in KE. It could be the down trim. All tests indicate a tail heavy plane even though I went to the extreme and balanced it at 90mm on my machine, still flies tail heavy even though it's not. I don't have a lot of experience tuning an airframe, but this is defiantly learning me somthin' good. I'm hoping PA will help me resolve this problem they've been very helpful so far. |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
Have experience with the PA adiction and build the extra to a friend.
Since the wings are tapper and the wing loading is higher than the adiction think this is the problem for your wings rock. Did you balance your wings? Hold the prop fron one side and put your other hand finger at the rear buttom of the fusselage before the rudder starts. Have the plane with the tires touching the surface and then pull the prop so the wings balance. They should keep level if it is ok. Add wheight to the wing that rises.(REPEAT THIS SEVERAL TIMES TO BE SURE) Your other problems seems to me that you glued incorrectly the Rudder or elevator or even the motor assy. Looking your plane from behind check if the elevator is parallel to the wings. If not there is part of your problems. If you don´t have an incidometer barrow one from a friend and check incidences from elevator and wing.( I asume they should be 0 on both) After above check if you have 90 degrees angle from rudder to elevator. Check if the motor box was glued flush and you glued the CF pins. If there are no pins means the motor box was glued incorrectly. Also seems to me that maybe you are flying with not the adecuate gear. TO HEAVVY Small planes are very sensitive to wheight, and the more the worst. Are you using the recomended gear or with similar specifications? Had problems with the rudder in the extra 260 since the horns for the push pull configuration have to litle leverage and this caused the rudder to loose aouthority at normal 3d manuevers. My friend tried 3 diferent servos having the same result so i told him to replace the horns with 1/2 plastic horns bolt through. THIS SOLVED THIS PROBLEM This plane has couplings in KE manuevers, but all planes have. hope the above is usefull. cheers Juan |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
ORIGINAL: juanjulian Have experience with the PA adiction and build the extra to a friend. Since the wings are tapper and the wing loading is higher than the adiction think this is the problem for your wings rock. Did you balance your wings? Hold the prop fron one side and put your other hand finger at the rear buttom of the fusselage before the rudder starts. Have the plane with the tires touching the surface and then pull the prop so the wings balance. They should keep level if it is ok. Add wheight to the wing that rises.(REPEAT THIS SEVERAL TIMES TO BE SURE) Your other problems seems to me that you glued incorrectly the Rudder or elevator or even the motor assy. Looking your plane from behind check if the elevator is parallel to the wings. If not there is part of your problems. If you don´t have an incidometer barrow one from a friend and check incidences from elevator and wing.( I asume they should be 0 on both) After above check if you have 90 degrees angle from rudder to elevator. Check if the motor box was glued flush and you glued the CF pins. If there are no pins means the motor box was glued incorrectly. Also seems to me that maybe you are flying with not the adecuate gear. TO HEAVVY Small planes are very sensitive to wheight, and the more the worst. Are you using the recomended gear or with similar specifications? Had problems with the rudder in the extra 260 since the horns for the push pull configuration have to litle leverage and this caused the rudder to loose aouthority at normal 3d manuevers. My friend tried 3 diferent servos having the same result so i told him to replace the horns with 1/2 plastic horns bolt through. THIS SOLVED THIS PROBLEM This plane has couplings in KE manuevers, but all planes have. hope the above is usefull. cheers Juan Nick |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
I was seeking a solution for wing rock with my PA Katana MD. I get tip stall's while in high alpha attitudes and low power. Basically it rocks back and forth in that attitude only. Is this where you experienced the wing rock?
Thanks, Bob |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
First check all that was said above and check the ail. for warps and your wings. lateral balance it by giving your plane a good pull in flight at full speed or a dive and add weight to the wing that doent drop. make sur you check for spoilerons or flaps by first taping the surface at the root to prevent movement, than check with a straightedge the wing tip for the centerline of the airfoil. If that doesn't work your CG might need to be more rearward, or maybe less expo to get full travel sooner and get a higher angle of attack which from experience IS nessasary. Hope this helps.
Nick |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
Thank you Nick, the problem does go away with a higher AOA but I am going to go over all that you listed to see if it helps, can't hurt. The plane fly's better than anything I have flown including full size and the rocking is the only quark I have found.
Bob |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
ORIGINAL: rharris73 Thank you Nick, the problem does go away with a higher AOA but I am going to go over all that you listed to see if it helps, can't hurt. The plane fly's better than anything I have flown including full size and the rocking is the only quark I have found. Bob Daniel |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
Thank you Daniel, and btw, I have learned more specifics on 3D flying from your video's in a short time than I have over 1 1/2 years using Real Flight. You have done a fantastic job putting that together.
Bob |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
ORIGINAL: rharris73 Thank you Daniel, and btw, I have learned more specifics on 3D flying from your video's in a short time than I have over 1 1/2 years using Real Flight. You have done a fantastic job putting that together. Bob |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
A lot of folks think the wing rock is caused by the wing going in and out of stall. What is really happening is at certain angles of attack the vertical fin and rudder are getting blocked out by the fuselage and elevators. This causes the plane to do a sorta dutch roll. It's hard to see it but the back of the fuse is going back and forth while the wings are tipping back and forth. Most planes will not wing rock while inverted because the vertical fin and rudder are in a position where they can't get blanked out from the airflow like they do right side up. A higher angle of attack usually requires more elevator input which allows more airflow upward to the rudder helping to control the aft end of the plane effectively stopping the dutch roll/wing rock.
As far as the constant climb or tail heavy feel, that sounds like an incidence issue and hopefully PA can help you out. Good luck and happy flying. |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
I thought I had the same problem until a really good pilot took the controls. OMG I have some work to do in the skills department!
Am I the only one without a PA electric setup? I am running an E-Flight Power 25 w/ their 60 amp esc on 2250 mAh 3s. I am a little under 38 oz flight ready. The extra weight is all up front with the ESC on the CF spar. Laterally its almost perfect, and my battery is close to the rudder servo as possible making my CG at 93-95mm. |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
Actually, I have the Katana MD and at and above a 45deg AOA as was suggested, the wing rock stops. Properly controlling the power to prevent climbing was the next issue to resolve and I finally did. I have tried the Power 15 with an eflight 45 amp ESC and it doesn't compair to the Thrust 30 and PA 45a ESC for both weight and power.
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RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
Here's my set-up.
http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/p...e/IMG_0709.jpg Changed the color a bit 'cuz the grey actually made it hard to see. http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/p...e/IMG_0711.jpg |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
The plane looks great , I like that color and layout. I am puzzeled with your power set-up, at 38 oz. flying weight you are 5 oz over the design weight by about 13%. As I said earlier, my biggest problem has been using too much power in high alfa manuvers, around 50% throttle, around 15amps with a 13 x6 prop. Between half and full throttle the thrust increases to about 90oz, 3 to 1 power to weight.
I am using the Thrst 30 and PA 45 amp ESC and the PA 2200 3 cell. My flight times are between 10 and 15 minutes. Initially, I used the Power 15 and Eflite 45, the weight and size of the controller was an issue for me, I was shocked with the power difference upon changing over to the Thrust 30. Bob |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
I never thought of it that way, being that much over design weight. "a couple extra oz isn't going to be noticed with that wing loading" I was told by a proficient flier, MAAC Regional Director to boot. I have had one of our better pilots say its the best lil park flier he's flown in its current config w/ a Xoar 13x6. I am new to this brushless stuff...I love nitro! I guess I should bite the bullet and get the PA set up...maybe I could use this E flight stuff in a new plane....lol, I can hear the wife now:D
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RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
I have no doubt that it fly's good with that set-up. I am pretty new at this as well and flying at slower speeds with solid control makes it a lot easier. Your set-up would likely work well on the new 58" Extra. I do like they way your plane looks, very impressive.
Bob |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
Yep, when you take off those extra 5 ounces, you will notice a BIG difference, it definately is a good idea to upgrade to the PA setup, i think they are offering free shipping on the thrust motor + quantum esc combos.
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RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
ORIGINAL: aerofundan Yep, when you take off those extra 5 ounces, you will notice a BIG difference, it definately is a good idea to upgrade to the PA setup, i think they are offering free shipping on the thrust motor + quantum esc combos. Ordered. Hope its worth it. Not too bad...$138 Canadian. |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
You will be very satisfied with the combo. Swing the 13x6.5 wodden prop and you'll be amazed. I switched to the 12x6 because it provides all the thrust you'll need without fighting the prop.
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RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
I'll swing the 13x6 Xoar. I have a 13x6.5 APC in case I tip strike. I'll make sure to get a few to choose from. I have already taken out and sold the E-Flight gear as a fellow club member needed them. It helped pay for the new combo. [8D]
I have a couple Flightpower EVO25 2170mAh 3s'. Are they comparable to the PA's for size and weight? They have a 50c (108 A) burst rating. Thanks for your help, btw.:) |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
That battery will work fine, I think the PA 2200mah 20c 3cell weighs 168gr. I am getting between 10 and 15 minutes per flight on the PA batt.
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RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
Just wondering how long it took for you to receive your Thrust/Quantum set-up? Did it come from down under or a US distributor? I keep looking at it hanging on the wall empty:( Itching to get it back in the air!
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RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
They are shipped out of Georga and I get my orders in two days. You ordered online from the US site right? You should have received an order receipt and shipping notice, if not call Steve(U.S. Representative) at 770-292-9122 or email at [email protected], he is very responsive.
Bob |
RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
Yes, PA shipping from USA is very fast, but since you are in canada i suposse it may be in customs right now and that is why there has been a delay.
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RE: Precision Aerobatics Extra 260 problems??
Hey guys check this out new video showing the Ultimate AMR and Extra 260!
http://www.vimeo.com/7149508 |
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