Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
07-29-2005, 01:17 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: STG
Of course props will vary, but when I measured mine with a scale a 17 x6 apc yielded 15.5 pounds at 9,250. I think Dave's pull #'s were very close as well.
Of course props will vary, but when I measured mine with a scale a 17 x6 apc yielded 15.5 pounds at 9,250. I think Dave's pull #'s were very close as well.
PROP RPM @ 10lbs Max RPM Max Thrust
16x6 Bolly CF 8,400 10,300 15lbs 13oz
16x6 APC 8,100 10,200 16lbs 1oz
17x4W APC 8,550 10,100 14lbs 14oz
17x6 APC 7,890 9,200 15lbs 11oz
18x5 Zinger 7,400 8,900 14lbs 15oz
The Thrust Calculator MUST be bogus somehow. It says the 17x6 @ 9200 pulls 21.2 lbs thrust.
07-29-2005, 01:55 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: TManiaci
yea, Dave pulled 15lb 11oz @ 9200, his data...
PROP RPM @ 10lbs Max RPM Max Thrust
16x6 Bolly CF 8,400 10,300 15lbs 13oz
16x6 APC 8,100 10,200 16lbs 1oz
17x4W APC 8,550 10,100 14lbs 14oz
17x6 APC 7,890 9,200 15lbs 11oz
18x5 Zinger 7,400 8,900 14lbs 15oz
The Thrust Calculator MUST be bogus somehow. It says the 17x6 @ 9200 pulls 21.2 lbs thrust.
ORIGINAL: STG
Of course props will vary, but when I measured mine with a scale a 17 x6 apc yielded 15.5 pounds at 9,250. I think Dave's pull #'s were very close as well.
Of course props will vary, but when I measured mine with a scale a 17 x6 apc yielded 15.5 pounds at 9,250. I think Dave's pull #'s were very close as well.
PROP RPM @ 10lbs Max RPM Max Thrust
16x6 Bolly CF 8,400 10,300 15lbs 13oz
16x6 APC 8,100 10,200 16lbs 1oz
17x4W APC 8,550 10,100 14lbs 14oz
17x6 APC 7,890 9,200 15lbs 11oz
18x5 Zinger 7,400 8,900 14lbs 15oz
The Thrust Calculator MUST be bogus somehow. It says the 17x6 @ 9200 pulls 21.2 lbs thrust.
07-29-2005, 02:09 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: Whinery232
Hello Fellow Funtana Owners,
I need some help! This question may have already been addressed in the previous 50 pages of this thread but I don't have the time to read all of it. I am running a Satio 100 on my Funtana 90 with a 15X4W on it running 30% nitro. Does everything great besides hover and it doesn't have much vertical at that. So my question is "do I need to go to a bigger prop such as a 16X4W or do I need to change to a 15X6 or something completely different? Also this plane came in right at 8.5 lbs. If any one has any suggestions or or answeres please let me know.
Thanks
Hello Fellow Funtana Owners,
I need some help! This question may have already been addressed in the previous 50 pages of this thread but I don't have the time to read all of it. I am running a Satio 100 on my Funtana 90 with a 15X4W on it running 30% nitro. Does everything great besides hover and it doesn't have much vertical at that. So my question is "do I need to go to a bigger prop such as a 16X4W or do I need to change to a 15X6 or something completely different? Also this plane came in right at 8.5 lbs. If any one has any suggestions or or answeres please let me know.
Thanks
07-29-2005, 02:25 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
STG thanks for the input, I fly in western Oklahoma and I think it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500' above sea level. Is that enough elevation to cause a signifigant difference in performance? Would a 15X6 or 15X8 be the cure? once again thanks for the input?
07-29-2005, 02:36 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: Whinery232
STG thanks for the input, I fly in western Oklahoma and I think it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500' above sea level. Is that enough elevation to cause a signifigant difference in performance? Would a 15X6 or 15X8 be the cure? once again thanks for the input?
STG thanks for the input, I fly in western Oklahoma and I think it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500' above sea level. Is that enough elevation to cause a signifigant difference in performance? Would a 15X6 or 15X8 be the cure? once again thanks for the input?
]
07-29-2005, 04:24 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
So, STG what you are telling me is that I need to sell the Satio 100 and go for the YS 110 or larger. This sound like I should have waited till I read all the post on the other 49 pages and then made a decision on what engine. So much for patiences. Anyway thank you so much for your input it is appreciated very much!
07-29-2005, 04:38 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: Whinery232
So, STG what you are telling me is that I need to sell the Satio 100 and go for the YS 110 or larger. This sound like I should have waited till I read all the post on the other 49 pages and then made a decision on what engine. So much for patiences. Anyway thank you so much for your input it is appreciated very much!
So, STG what you are telling me is that I need to sell the Satio 100 and go for the YS 110 or larger. This sound like I should have waited till I read all the post on the other 49 pages and then made a decision on what engine. So much for patiences. Anyway thank you so much for your input it is appreciated very much!
You may feel that way after you try a 16 x4W. Some people like the way the SA100 pulls on the F90. It is a bit subjective.
If I was buying a new motor for the F90 it would be a O.S. 1.6FX.
BTW, I think the SA100 is the perfect motor for the Fliton Extra 330. (or a .91fx)
07-29-2005, 04:39 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
Whinery232,
Don't give up yet... there are several Saito 100 guys here that have managed to make it work to thier satisfaction. First, some of these guys should help you out when they have time on prop selection. STG is right, there is a perfect prop for the job, and it takes testing (or advice) to find it.
Second, you can kick it up a notch with some add-ons... Pitt Muffler or Straight Pipe and a Perry VP-20 pump will get you an extra 400 rpm, nothing to sneeze at. FWS has had some success there. That's another full lb of thrust with the APC 16x4W.
Third, go on a diet. CF Landing Gear, Foam Ultralite Wheels, remove any balance weight and CG compensate with pull-pull and battery up front, downsize the throttle servo, lose the wheel pants, go to 6V regulated Lipo power and use a light battery (2S 1100 mAh), smaller fuel tank... and several other little things. There are some of these SA100 weighing in below 7.5 lbs, and the guys love the light-on-the-wing feel and "say" they get good verticle.
Don't give up yet... there are several Saito 100 guys here that have managed to make it work to thier satisfaction. First, some of these guys should help you out when they have time on prop selection. STG is right, there is a perfect prop for the job, and it takes testing (or advice) to find it.
Second, you can kick it up a notch with some add-ons... Pitt Muffler or Straight Pipe and a Perry VP-20 pump will get you an extra 400 rpm, nothing to sneeze at. FWS has had some success there. That's another full lb of thrust with the APC 16x4W.
Third, go on a diet. CF Landing Gear, Foam Ultralite Wheels, remove any balance weight and CG compensate with pull-pull and battery up front, downsize the throttle servo, lose the wheel pants, go to 6V regulated Lipo power and use a light battery (2S 1100 mAh), smaller fuel tank... and several other little things. There are some of these SA100 weighing in below 7.5 lbs, and the guys love the light-on-the-wing feel and "say" they get good verticle.
07-29-2005, 07:22 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: TManiaci
My upgrades (straight pipe with VP-20) on the 150 have yeilded some really amazing numbers, and I am doubting them. The SA150 is supposed to turn 2.5 HP, but the thrust calculator is showing the APC 17x6 turning 9400 rpm is producing 22 lbs static thrust and 2.97 HP.
My upgrades (straight pipe with VP-20) on the 150 have yeilded some really amazing numbers, and I am doubting them. The SA150 is supposed to turn 2.5 HP, but the thrust calculator is showing the APC 17x6 turning 9400 rpm is producing 22 lbs static thrust and 2.97 HP.
Clark
07-29-2005, 08:02 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: TManiaci
Whinery232,
Don't give up yet... there are several Saito 100 guys here that have managed to make it work to thier satisfaction. First, some of these guys should help you out when they have time on prop selection. STG is right, there is a perfect prop for the job, and it takes testing (or advice) to find it.
Second, you can kick it up a notch with some add-ons... Pitt Muffler or Straight Pipe and a Perry VP-20 pump will get you an extra 400 rpm, nothing to sneeze at. FWS has had some success there. That's another full lb of thrust with the APC 16x4W.
Third, go on a diet. CF Landing Gear, Foam Ultralite Wheels, remove any balance weight and CG compensate with pull-pull and battery up front, downsize the throttle servo, lose the wheel pants, go to 6V regulated Lipo power and use a light battery (2S 1100 mAh), smaller fuel tank... and several other little things. There are some of these SA100 weighing in below 7.5 lbs, and the guys love the light-on-the-wing feel and "say" they get good verticle.
Whinery232,
Don't give up yet... there are several Saito 100 guys here that have managed to make it work to thier satisfaction. First, some of these guys should help you out when they have time on prop selection. STG is right, there is a perfect prop for the job, and it takes testing (or advice) to find it.
Second, you can kick it up a notch with some add-ons... Pitt Muffler or Straight Pipe and a Perry VP-20 pump will get you an extra 400 rpm, nothing to sneeze at. FWS has had some success there. That's another full lb of thrust with the APC 16x4W.
Third, go on a diet. CF Landing Gear, Foam Ultralite Wheels, remove any balance weight and CG compensate with pull-pull and battery up front, downsize the throttle servo, lose the wheel pants, go to 6V regulated Lipo power and use a light battery (2S 1100 mAh), smaller fuel tank... and several other little things. There are some of these SA100 weighing in below 7.5 lbs, and the guys love the light-on-the-wing feel and "say" they get good verticle.
Agree on all points. Most 100 users agree that 30% nitro and a 16x4w is a good combo. The VP20/straight pipe helped me a little. With the standard muffler you should get 9200-9400 rpm (theDak got 9700!!!). I got 9300 typically, 9700 now with the vp 20/straight pipe that is still running too rich.
Regardless of the numbers, it seems I spend most of my aerobatic flight at 20%- 70% throttle, and my power-on 3d flying at 40%-80% throttle. Hovering is around 50%. This is a comfortable working range for me.
Clark
PS On a sad note, we're losing our airfield to urban sprawl next week. Tomorrow is our last club flying event.
07-29-2005, 08:43 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: FallingWithStyle
Clark
PS On a sad note, we're losing our airfield to urban sprawl next week. Tomorrow is our last club flying event.
Clark
PS On a sad note, we're losing our airfield to urban sprawl next week. Tomorrow is our last club flying event.
07-30-2005, 12:49 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
Hey new owners of Funtana 90,
Anyone please weight all the parts that comes in the box. I would like to know what is the weight of the 'virgin' plane, and if I know that (the weight of each part ie. fuse, wing, tail feathers, LG, wingtube, hardware,..) I can estimate the weight of the plane with particular radio-engine setup. All manufacturers displays RTF weight, but it is sometimes to good to be true
and they never tell what is the radio-engine combination for that weight.
So please, anyone with the new plane, take a couple of minutes and put each part on scale to share this info with us.
Thanks,
RysiuM
Anyone please weight all the parts that comes in the box. I would like to know what is the weight of the 'virgin' plane, and if I know that (the weight of each part ie. fuse, wing, tail feathers, LG, wingtube, hardware,..) I can estimate the weight of the plane with particular radio-engine setup. All manufacturers displays RTF weight, but it is sometimes to good to be true
and they never tell what is the radio-engine combination for that weight.So please, anyone with the new plane, take a couple of minutes and put each part on scale to share this info with us.
Thanks,
RysiuM
07-30-2005, 02:51 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: RysiuM
Hey new owners of Funtana 90,
Anyone please weight all the parts that comes in the box. I would like to know what is the weight of the 'virgin' plane, and if I know that (the weight of each part ie. fuse, wing, tail feathers, LG, wingtube, hardware,..) I can estimate the weight of the plane with particular radio-engine setup. All manufacturers displays RTF weight, but it is sometimes to good to be true and they never tell what is the radio-engine combination for that weight.
So please, anyone with the new plane, take a couple of minutes and put each part on scale to share this info with us.
Thanks,
RysiuM
Hey new owners of Funtana 90,
Anyone please weight all the parts that comes in the box. I would like to know what is the weight of the 'virgin' plane, and if I know that (the weight of each part ie. fuse, wing, tail feathers, LG, wingtube, hardware,..) I can estimate the weight of the plane with particular radio-engine setup. All manufacturers displays RTF weight, but it is sometimes to good to be true
and they never tell what is the radio-engine combination for that weight.So please, anyone with the new plane, take a couple of minutes and put each part on scale to share this info with us.
Thanks,
RysiuM
07-30-2005, 04:46 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
Tman,
I flew the F90/Saito180 again today. Here is the tach result you requested. We're in Central Florida just North of Orlando (R.C.A.C.F.) and it was just over 90 degrees at the field. Using 30% heli (running a click or two rich) I was turning an APC 18 X 6W at 8,400. I would have guessed more, but the tach doesn't lie!
Talk to you later,
Cap10Jaf
I flew the F90/Saito180 again today. Here is the tach result you requested. We're in Central Florida just North of Orlando (R.C.A.C.F.) and it was just over 90 degrees at the field. Using 30% heli (running a click or two rich) I was turning an APC 18 X 6W at 8,400. I would have guessed more, but the tach doesn't lie!
Talk to you later,
Cap10Jaf
07-30-2005, 05:00 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: cap10jaf
Tman,
I flew the F90/Saito180 again today. Here is the tach result you requested. We're in Central Florida just North of Orlando (R.C.A.C.F.) and it was just over 90 degrees at the field. Using 30% heli (running a click or two rich) I was turning an APC 18 X 6W at 8,400. I would have guessed more, but the tach doesn't lie!
Talk to you later,
Cap10Jaf
Tman,
I flew the F90/Saito180 again today. Here is the tach result you requested. We're in Central Florida just North of Orlando (R.C.A.C.F.) and it was just over 90 degrees at the field. Using 30% heli (running a click or two rich) I was turning an APC 18 X 6W at 8,400. I would have guessed more, but the tach doesn't lie!
Talk to you later,
Cap10Jaf
07-30-2005, 07:48 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
cap10jaf,
Nice... that calculates (corrected CF=0.83) to 17.4 lbs thrust @ 8400 rpm, pretty strong! But, looks like you are below the peak power quite a bit. That SA180 should turn the 18x6 8700-8800 rpm I think, making more like 18.6 lbs thrust.
See a better [link=http://www.mmaa-modelairplanes.org/staticthrustcalculator.htm]Thrust Calculator Here[/link]. Like FWS says, if you put in a CF of 0.82 to 0.83, it comes close to matching real numbers we all have been reporting. It's not consistent, but I suspect some of our thrust testing and conditions have not been carefully controlled when we are taking data points (me included).
Nice... that calculates (corrected CF=0.83) to 17.4 lbs thrust @ 8400 rpm, pretty strong! But, looks like you are below the peak power quite a bit. That SA180 should turn the 18x6 8700-8800 rpm I think, making more like 18.6 lbs thrust.
See a better [link=http://www.mmaa-modelairplanes.org/staticthrustcalculator.htm]Thrust Calculator Here[/link]. Like FWS says, if you put in a CF of 0.82 to 0.83, it comes close to matching real numbers we all have been reporting. It's not consistent, but I suspect some of our thrust testing and conditions have not been carefully controlled when we are taking data points (me included).
07-31-2005, 06:20 AM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
Update to the Saito 100 / straight pipe / VP20 experiment:
I flew three flights yesterday with the VP20 closed snug. The internal shuttle can still shake but I'm guessing it only moves 1mm or so. Max rpm is still 9700, idle is 1900, and the mid range is almost perfect. Mid range "misses" or "pops" about once every 3-5 seconds; I don't know if that means rich or lean but its stable and reliable. Fuel economy improved: 12 min flights plus 30% reserve after mixed sportsman/hovering, 17oz tank. No more vapor trail.
Thanks for the tuning help STG.
Clark
I flew three flights yesterday with the VP20 closed snug. The internal shuttle can still shake but I'm guessing it only moves 1mm or so. Max rpm is still 9700, idle is 1900, and the mid range is almost perfect. Mid range "misses" or "pops" about once every 3-5 seconds; I don't know if that means rich or lean but its stable and reliable. Fuel economy improved: 12 min flights plus 30% reserve after mixed sportsman/hovering, 17oz tank. No more vapor trail.
Thanks for the tuning help STG.
Clark
07-31-2005, 05:43 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
FWS,
I think I would richen till the popping went away, if it will. To me, that feels like trouble. Hate to see you burn a valve or something bad like that.
I think I would richen till the popping went away, if it will. To me, that feels like trouble. Hate to see you burn a valve or something bad like that.
08-05-2005, 08:11 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
Everyone give me a little help here. Im building the 90 with the saito 120 on it. I was thinking about putting I4C's isolator in there, but as close as everybody is on weight, i am second guessing it. Do you guys think the two batteries and all the other gear will put it over the edge? I would like this plane to be able to hover and pull out. Thank you.
08-05-2005, 09:34 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
Spackle take it easy and keep it simple. Take the 120 back and get a 150. A couple ozs lighter and a some more ponies.
08-06-2005, 08:11 AM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: Whinery232
So, STG what you are telling me is that I need to sell the Satio 100 and go for the YS 110 or larger. This sound like I should have waited till I read all the post on the other 49 pages and then made a decision on what engine. So much for patiences. Anyway thank you so much for your input it is appreciated very much!
So, STG what you are telling me is that I need to sell the Satio 100 and go for the YS 110 or larger. This sound like I should have waited till I read all the post on the other 49 pages and then made a decision on what engine. So much for patiences. Anyway thank you so much for your input it is appreciated very much!
I did the same thing bought a Saito 100 put it on my F90 wasn't happy. Should have done more research. Yesterday I put a YS110 on mine haven't flown it yet but will today I hope the 110 is all it's made out to be.
I also hope I can get it tuned right I hear they can be a son of a gun to tune sometimes.
08-06-2005, 01:29 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
I installed a 1/2 gallon-old GMS120 on my brand new F90. I flew fine but lacked the top end. I drilled out the muffler and the engine started having fuel feed problems and caused 7 deadstick flights.
The deadstick flights helped bust both the landing gear and tailwheel. Rebuilt the tailwheel by inserting two pieces of 1/4" dowels in the soft balsa, added a ply plate, and installed a Klett tailwheel. Replaced the main with a composite one (unbreakable, 4 oz heavier, and VERY springy) made by a local r/c guy (Webster, Texas). Installed a VP20 and got great topend. The idle-to-high transition is causing sputtering, smoke and sometimes quit altogether.
My question: it appears my 9.5lb F90 still has a weird landing characteristic. It floats in nose high, engine idling, and starts to slow down nicely with some up elevator. As soon as I let the nose drop by neutralizing the elevator to touch down, the darn thing simply drops HARD. The tip of the rudder hits the runway followed by a slam dunk on the main. Watching videos by the 3D experts, their landings look just like mine. Is there a better way to land this bird?
The deadstick flights helped bust both the landing gear and tailwheel. Rebuilt the tailwheel by inserting two pieces of 1/4" dowels in the soft balsa, added a ply plate, and installed a Klett tailwheel. Replaced the main with a composite one (unbreakable, 4 oz heavier, and VERY springy) made by a local r/c guy (Webster, Texas). Installed a VP20 and got great topend. The idle-to-high transition is causing sputtering, smoke and sometimes quit altogether.
My question: it appears my 9.5lb F90 still has a weird landing characteristic. It floats in nose high, engine idling, and starts to slow down nicely with some up elevator. As soon as I let the nose drop by neutralizing the elevator to touch down, the darn thing simply drops HARD. The tip of the rudder hits the runway followed by a slam dunk on the main. Watching videos by the 3D experts, their landings look just like mine. Is there a better way to land this bird?
08-06-2005, 04:04 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: coronabob
I installed a 1/2 gallon-old GMS120 on my brand new F90. I flew fine but lacked the top end. I drilled out the muffler and the engine started having fuel feed problems and caused 7 deadstick flights.
The deadstick flights helped bust both the landing gear and tailwheel. Rebuilt the tailwheel by inserting two pieces of 1/4" dowels in the soft balsa, added a ply plate, and installed a Klett tailwheel. Replaced the main with a composite one (unbreakable, 4 oz heavier, and VERY springy) made by a local r/c guy (Webster, Texas). Installed a VP20 and got great topend. The idle-to-high transition is causing sputtering, smoke and sometimes quit altogether.
My question: it appears my 9.5lb F90 still has a weird landing characteristic. It floats in nose high, engine idling, and starts to slow down nicely with some up elevator. As soon as I let the nose drop by neutralizing the elevator to touch down, the darn thing simply drops HARD. The tip of the rudder hits the runway followed by a slam dunk on the main. Watching videos by the 3D experts, their landings look just like mine. Is there a better way to land this bird?
I installed a 1/2 gallon-old GMS120 on my brand new F90. I flew fine but lacked the top end. I drilled out the muffler and the engine started having fuel feed problems and caused 7 deadstick flights.
The deadstick flights helped bust both the landing gear and tailwheel. Rebuilt the tailwheel by inserting two pieces of 1/4" dowels in the soft balsa, added a ply plate, and installed a Klett tailwheel. Replaced the main with a composite one (unbreakable, 4 oz heavier, and VERY springy) made by a local r/c guy (Webster, Texas). Installed a VP20 and got great topend. The idle-to-high transition is causing sputtering, smoke and sometimes quit altogether.
My question: it appears my 9.5lb F90 still has a weird landing characteristic. It floats in nose high, engine idling, and starts to slow down nicely with some up elevator. As soon as I let the nose drop by neutralizing the elevator to touch down, the darn thing simply drops HARD. The tip of the rudder hits the runway followed by a slam dunk on the main. Watching videos by the 3D experts, their landings look just like mine. Is there a better way to land this bird?
BTW, the VP20 is not recommended for 2 stroke motors(although it may work well). And it sounds like you are having problems turning the pump down enough--too rich down low? Can't lean out low end needle any more? I run a Bypass line just in front of the needle valve back to the tank ("T" into the fill line on a 3 line tank) to help lower that bottom end pressure when I cant lean out the pump or low end needle more. Also seems to make the pump much easier to dial in.
Hope some of this is useful to you.
08-06-2005, 04:15 PM
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RE: Funtana 90 What engine ???????? help
ORIGINAL: STG
How about the landing Kyle does in his dropping in video?--only do that on the sim. [sm=lol.gif]
How about the landing Kyle does in his dropping in video?--only do that on the sim. [sm=lol.gif]
