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Harrier 46 all right!

Old 07-15-2005, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

You could mount it sideways and use a pitts style muffler, or upright, but both methods would take away from the looks of the plane and could cause fuel draw problems due to the tank location. The only way to use the cowl is to go inverted. I cut my lower cowl completely away to allow for the 2 stroke, and that makes it great for easy removal. I don't have to remove the prop to get it off. Don't sweat the inverted engine. If you have a proven engine that runs good otherwise, I'm sure it will run fine inverted. I don't even need to use the starter motor to get mine going, and it runs perfect.
Old 07-16-2005, 01:47 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I just finished mine the other day, running the Saito 82 Also, and also having a hell of a time getting CG back, the 82 really isnt a heavy motor at all, im messing around with the idea of somehow moving my batterie all the way to the rear
Old 07-16-2005, 03:39 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Having problems with orientation i've put some pink diamonds on top surfaces and may smoke canopy as well. Am i the only one that can't see the thing ?


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Old 07-16-2005, 06:58 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

If you can't see it, you are flying way too far away, and probably too high. But seriously, I put big wide stripes on the bottoms of the wings just for orientation purposes at a distance. I generally keep the plane right in front of me, less than 200 feet away, so seeing it is not a problem. Everyone I know with a Harrier has done something to the bottom to help make it more visible.
Old 07-16-2005, 10:46 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I think it's just a matter of getting used to it. I don't even have the decals on mine, I think it looks cleaner without them. On the first flight my first thought was that it was really hard to see, now that we have a few tanks through it, it's getting easier. Anything under 500 feet isn't a problem now, the only time I get any higer is to climb for a really long blender and who needs to see it any better for those.
Dealspeed, the 82 does make it come out nose heavy. I ended up putting both the reciever and the battery at the far rear of the radio compartment, and it could still use some more tail weight. So far it's doing everything I'm capable of quite well, so I haven't went to a great deal of effort to move it back. Watch your wheel pants, if your axles stick through the outside the pounding of the 82 will wear the holes larger. I had to make a couple of ply plates and CA them to the inside of the wheel pants to help support them.
Old 07-16-2005, 11:54 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

The axles were supposed to be trimmed off to 46 mm. Mine have been trimmed and they don't stick through. It's just a matter of time before I tear them off anyway, they are kinda flimsy.
Old 07-16-2005, 06:15 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Dyehard, what prop are you running on the Saito? I have the same engine in mine and am using an APC 13x6 but the plane seems very fast with that prop??
Old 07-17-2005, 01:12 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

It would be with that prop. I'm running an APC 14x4W. With 14x4 you will have less speed but much better verticle climb and acceration.
Old 07-17-2005, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Hey guys, I tried a 13-4 apc today on my K&B 61 and was NOT impressed. It turns the same rpm as the 12-6, but has no pulling power. Most noticeable was the lack of climbout from a hover. It only went up half as fast as before. Top speed on the model was way down, too, but that was to be expected. To me, it does better with the 12-6 in every respect, as long as you are prudent with the throttle it won't overspeed. I may try a 13-6 next to see what effect that may have. Not all props are the same, and this 13-4 is not a wide blade, and in fact the tips are very skinny. A master airscrew 13-4 might do better. I only had enough time for one flight, so no other testing was done.

Old 07-17-2005, 08:07 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I was thinking of getting this plane after destroying my Hangar 9 Twist......How does this plane fly compare to the twist?

I was also thinking of put a como .51 in this plane but wasnt sure if i would have any issues with this and the pre-existing motor mount holes......and also will there be any issues of running this engine inverted? should this engine have enough power to pull this plane around?
Old 07-17-2005, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

ORIGINAL: P3RIPPERFW

I was thinking of getting this plane after destroying my Hangar 9 Twist......How does this plane fly compare to the twist?

I was also thinking of put a como .51 in this plane but wasnt sure if i would have any issues with this and the pre-existing motor mount holes......and also will there be any issues of running this engine inverted? should this engine have enough power to pull this plane around?
I've seen a twist or two fly, and this plane is not in the same class. It's meant for 3D, not exactly what the Twist does well at. Motor mount holes are slotted in the mounts to work with most engines in the size range called for. My 61 is about 20 years old, but flies the plane great, and I need no more power. I guess my question to you is how well can your 51 turn a 12-6 prop? The model weighs 6 pounds with no added weight. The guys with the 82's are having trouble getting the cg back. Mine is actually a little tail heavy, but flies great like that. Besides that, I'm not familiar with Como engines. If it runs good upright and sideways, it should run fine inverted. All I do is make sure not to over lean by checking the needle setting with the nose held vertically. This tends to make it seem a little rich on the ground, but clears up in the air.
Old 07-17-2005, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I havent run the engine in quite some time....I think it will turn a 12-6 pretty well.....but i couldnt vouche for that till i try it. It is the same as a thunder tiger. I wasnt sure if that plane calls for a .46 which i think is far too small to pull this plane around, if the engine mounts would be too narrow for a larger engine.
Old 07-19-2005, 05:53 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

The model weighs 6 lbs and goes really good with the 61. It's an old engine with a ring, so a newer 51 might be about equal to it. I tried a 13-4 and a 13-6 apc and both were no good. The 12-6 is just right. Even if you went with an 11-6, you could probably get it to turn up enough to still be very strong. Let me know how it turns out.
Old 07-20-2005, 12:05 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Hey thanks alot....I went ahead and bought one and tried to run the 12-6 on it but it was lugging the engine. but i had an os 61 laying around so I threw that in there. All I gotta say is I hate working on cowls...I probably spent a good 3/4 hours trying to cram everything inside the cowl. It was my first one to do so it was very frustrating came out alright though. Did you notice on your harrier that the hinge bevil on the aileron was very wavy? I ended up cutting the covering off the whole hinge on both ailerons and sanding them both down so they would be even. Other then those few things the hardware kit and construction of the plane is top notch. how did you handle the aileron servo leads? Mine barely have 2 inches of extension out of the wing. Did you just leave your Y harness hooked up to the reciever and secure the leads coming out of the wing somehow?

Thanks again,
chris
Old 07-20-2005, 07:37 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I flew my Harrier .46 for the first time last weekend. With a Saito .82, no wheel pants, no spinner and the rx & rx pack in the back of the compartment my cg is at 160mm.

The test flight went good. It does do a good harrier. Knife edge wasn't great. The only problem I'm having is the canopy bolts falling out and the canopy rattling. I think I have that fixed now and look forward to trying it again this weekend.

I tried the recommended throws and couldn't get a good waterfall. Going to try the elevator at 45 degrees and see what happens.
Old 07-20-2005, 07:55 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!


ORIGINAL: m4x pow3r

I flew my Harrier .46 for the first time last weekend. With a Saito .82, no wheel pants, no spinner and the rx & rx pack in the back of the compartment my cg is at 160mm.

The test flight went good. It does do a good harrier. Knife edge wasn't great. The only problem I'm having is the canopy bolts falling out and the canopy rattling. I think I have that fixed now and look forward to trying it again this weekend.

I tried the recommended throws and couldn't get a good waterfall. Going to try the elevator at 45 degrees and see what happens.

I had the same problem with the screws coming out with my thumbing Saito 82. I used plumpers tape and it stopped them coming out for a while. Few days ago I flew it and when I was up high the canopy came right off and landed in one piece about 20 feet in front of me. Needless to say that finished my flying for the day as I had no spare bolts I think I may put a piece of carbon tube right the way through and use split pins on each end to secure?
Old 07-20-2005, 08:07 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

The carbon tube is a great idea.

I got some of this from mcmaster.com (or don's hobbies has it) to try on the bolts:

Vibra-Tite Reusable Threadlocker
After coating your fasteners to make them self-locking and self-sealing, you can adjust, remove, and even reuse them. Use on ferrous and nonferrous metals, platings, wood, and nylon screws of all sizes. Threadlocker resists water. Cleaning parts isn't necessary, simply wipe off visible oil. You can even coat your fasteners ahead of time and store them indefinitely. Dries to the touch in seconds; however, allow to dry 10-30 minutes before assembly. Temperature range is -65° to +165° F. Color is red.
Size Each

1-oz. Brush-Top Bottle 75145A69 $16.84

I think someone else recommended green loctite.
Old 07-20-2005, 09:15 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

A friend flew his new Harrier 60 a few weeks before I conpleted my Harrier 46. His canopy also came off in flight, luckly landing in some unmown hay with no damage. When I flew my Harrier 46 the time, I put a small drop of blue loctite on each canopy bolt. I've done that at the start of each flying session since. Blue loctite is designed to be removed with moderate force, plus it usually takes overnight to fully harden. I've had no problems removing the canopy bolts and no problems with them falling out.
Old 07-20-2005, 12:51 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Try putting a small piece of fuel tube, about 1/4", over the canopy bolts and then bolt the conopy on. Works a treat, bolts do not vibrate loose.

For the rattling canopy 4 small pieces of double sided tape on the underside will provide a nice rattle free cushion all held down with the bolt mod above.

Hope this helps.
Old 07-20-2005, 07:53 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I replaced my canopy screws and T nuts with nylon nuts and bolts with a 10-24 thread. I epoxied the nuts in, and cut clearance in the holes in the fuse to allow them to fit thru. I burred a flat spot on each screw to add drag to the bolts and everything stays put. The nice thing is they are knurled, so you need no wrench.

As for the cowl, I basically only used the top half of it. It comes off without removing the prop, and the whole engine is exposed underneath. Still looks much better than no cowl.

If you are running an OS 61, it will be more nose heavy than mine, but will have more than enough extra power. My engine weighs just a couple ounces more than a 46. You might be able to swing a 13-6 with that engine.
Old 07-21-2005, 12:00 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

yeah i definately had to add a few sticks of lead to the back even after moving the reciever and battery back as far as they could go in the fuse. Probably about the same problem the guys running the 82's are having.

The only things ive ran into that i wasnt real happy about with this model were....the back of the fuselage where the servos are mounted is extremely flimsy and was flexing like crazy when i was working around there........A little bit stiffer grade balsa or some cross bracing would work well. the other thing was i had to do alot of cutting out of the servo opening they were a good 1/16" too short. are other brands of servos shorter/ narrower possibly?

are you having any problems with the exhaust hitting your servos in the back? mine seems to line up exactly on the exaust. I cant wait to fly this plane it has a very different profile not only with the very tall fuselage proile but also the long fuselage and seemingly narrow wingspan........
Old 07-21-2005, 05:43 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Yes, this model is built very light, and that means weak. It's a large model to weigh in at 6 lbs, in my opinion, and as long as you don't smack the ground with it, it's plenty strong. I actually did crash mine, and it broke in half behind the wing. The fuse is all balsa, and there's not much of it, so fixing it will be simple.

I did have to trim as you did to mount the servos. I used Hitec 425's all around. I think airtronics servos might fit those little holes.

The long tail moment makes the plane more stable with the rearward cg, thus making it the most maneuverable plane I have ever flown. You don't need big rudder throws on this one, especially for KE. If you do, it couples really bad. Has roll coupling that's a little tricky to figure out. If you set yours up for max deflections, make sure you use a lot of expo. I have -80% on el, -60% on ail and rudder. I have my throws maxed out, except for rudder, which I cut back some. It flies nice like that. I did notice that I get a cg shift with fuel burn that amounts to about 3 to 4 clicks of trim. Just one more thing to have to do to make it fly right, but it doesn't really change the way it flies.
Old 07-21-2005, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Awesome ill keep that in mind....today ill be getting the throws set and the radio all set up. Hopefully it will be flying by friday. Thanks again for the help.
Old 07-25-2005, 05:07 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Man really see what you are talking about with the expo on the elevator. I am running 40% on the ailerons and 80 on the elevator. I was having a problem with my reciever glitching i think it was damaged in the last crash so im having to switch that out. Other then that the plane seemed to fly very stable.
Old 07-25-2005, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

This weekend I flew mine since the repair job. It went back together just as straight as it was, and flies exactly the same. The 6" pitch prop is still the best bet, because it pulls at a lower rpm than the 4". It actually lunges forward with blip of the throttle. Cruising speed for this plane is about 1/3 throttle, and hovering is at about 1/2. It's so rediculously maneuverable that you can fly it in close and slow without much effort. I am beginning to get a little disappointed with the knife edge coupling issues. It wanders around so much that it's hard to find the right combination of speed, power and control inputs to get it right. I am told that the 90 size is the same way. Too bad, because it does everything else really well. I also found that 100% spoilerons mixed in helps stabilize the harrier, and makes walls a little less abrupt, making the model appear to slide a little more like the big ones do. Anyone who can't figure out how to flat spin this model needs to just go back and take some lessons on how to do it. She comes down at about 2 feet per second at about 1.5 revolutions per second with full power, full down elevator, neutral ailerons and somewhat less than full rudder. All you need to do to recover is neutralize rudder, then elevator, and fly away. Cool!

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