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Harrier 46 all right!

Old 07-04-2005, 07:56 PM
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Default Harrier 46 all right!

I feel like I may be one of the first in the US to post on this plane, as they have just come available here. My thoughts are :
1. New to 3D? Get one to learn on. They have excellent low speed and harrier flying abilities. No whacky porpoising on landings, plenty of rudder control.
2. Flies great on a K&B 61 with 5% cool power and stock muffler. Pullout is better than my F-90 with OS 1.08.
3. Wide speed envelope. Flies fast just as well as it flies slow. No problems with flutter. I'm using Hitec 425bb's on ailerons and elevators, with a 605bb on rudder. The servos give the throw you need in slow flight, but obviously don't hold at high speed. Ailerons could use 70 oz/in to be sure you are getting all you can. However, the surfaces are light and not overbuilt, so too much torque is likely to bend or break something.
4. Can't beat the price with a stick! I got mine for $125 and didn't need to go back to get this and that to make it fly like it should. Used all the supplied hardware, and it all seems perfectly adequate for this size model.
5. The red and yellow looks much better in the air than the blue and yellow. Even if you are not interested in 3D, this is a great flying sport plane that is fun to just shoot landings with. The cg on mine is at or just behind the rear mark and it's perfect there. No need to go experimenting with moving it around. For you guys with the big bucks and the high dollar setups, this plane would be a great one to knock around the sky and really show off to the crowd. If you can hover and harrier around on the deck with a Funtana, you'll be able to drag this one all over the grass without even thinking about it.
6. Quick to build. I spent about 10 hours on mine. Should it have an early demise it will definitely be replaced with another one.
Old 07-04-2005, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

where did you get it for 125?...i thought the price was 150
Old 07-04-2005, 09:47 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I have a friend who has a friend that owns a hobby shop near DC. I get all my pricier stuff from him. My F90 was $185, and the Harrier 90 is $150. He does a lot of business that way. Even for $150, the model is worth it for the way it looks and flies. A Somethin Extra arf is $200, and the two just don't compare.
Old 07-05-2005, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

There are several threads on this model starting from about six months ago when they became available in the UK.
Old 07-05-2005, 10:07 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I know, I read those, but none of what I read seemed to do the model justice. I think it may be just a little under rated. Based on the rest of the 3D forum, I can understand why. The most active threads pertain to the bigger, more expensive models. I just thought it would be nice if this little guy didn't go unnoticed, that's all. Maybe I should have posted in the ARF forum, or maybe the sport flying forum. I just checked out the video of the 46 powered katana profile. I wish I had seen that a couple of weeks ago. The Harrier can do all of what he does, with the exception of that slow KE. I haven't figured out the right combination for that yet.
Old 07-05-2005, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

You are right - it IS an excellent flier. I had one and ripped a wing off it in the air. I was given a replacement set by the supplier. I had an ASP 61 four stroke in the plane to start with. It was just slightly underpowered for 3D stuff, but was still a great flier. Eventually I replaced the engine with a JEN 56 and pipe. It wasn't fast with the 13 x 4Wide blade - it just went at the same speed upwards or downwards.

Very entertaining. I prefer the 90 version though - it's an even better flier.
Old 07-05-2005, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

just got 1 myself and it will be fitted with a jen 56 and throttle pipe ill let you know how it goes but i am a bit worried that it will show up my flying skills

goony
Old 07-06-2005, 07:53 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Actually, and don't take this the wrong way, but the old timers at my club love the 90 size harrier. They like it because it makes them look like better pilots, not worse. They're not really into 3D, but they do like to fly around really slow and then go up high and hover a bit. It's fun watching an old dog learn new tricks!
Old 07-06-2005, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

It's an easy plane to fly. You will have no problems if you go gently on the rates to start with. It's stable, even with the CG wayyyy back.
Old 07-08-2005, 11:06 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I just picked up a Harrier 46. Do you guys remeber what size servo extensions are needed for the elevator and rudder servos?

Thanks!
Old 07-08-2005, 08:53 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

No, I don't remember. Looks like a y with reverser and 6" for el, and a 12" on rudder.
Old 07-09-2005, 07:58 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I seem to remember that one of the elevator servos is offset slightly above the H/stab and the other on slightly below. This makes a reverser unnecessary. I do not remember any installation difficulties so it must have been quite straightforward...
Old 07-09-2005, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Maidened mine today with a YS63FZS 13x5 prop and 20% nitro. Still running engine in but it will punch out of the hover no sweat. Flies a treat on the medium throws as recommended in the manual with some expo dialed in. Responsive but not twitchy. Set up with a forward c of g from the recommondations gives no wing rock in harrier type manoeuvre and good knife edge without any peculiar coupling. Dead slow roll on landings a treat. Buy one, a bargain.
Old 07-09-2005, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

ORIGINAL: Bodge

I seem to remember that one of the elevator servos is offset slightly above the H/stab and the other on slightly below. This makes a reverser unnecessary. I do not remember any installation difficulties so it must have been quite straightforward...
Not true. Both servos are below the stab with the horns on top, thus making it necessary to use a reverser unless you have a radio that allows for separate elevator servo connections in the receiver.
Old 07-09-2005, 04:35 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

ORIGINAL: Keith wiv a 29yr old OS

Maidened mine today with a YS63FZS 13x5 prop and 20% nitro. Still running engine in but it will punch out of the hover no sweat. Flies a treat on the medium throws as recommended in the manual with some expo dialed in. Responsive but not twitchy. Set up with a forward c of g from the recommondations gives no wing rock in harrier type manoeuvre and good knife edge without any peculiar coupling. Dead slow roll on landings a treat. Buy one, a bargain.
Adjusted my rudder and elevator for more travel and flew today. My rudder is way to sensitive now and a KE is difficult. I added two mixes for KE and will test tomorrow. I got a little pilot induced wing rock in harrier flight but spoilerons definitely helped stabilize that maneuver. Landings at the rearward cg are beautiful tail low idle on approach at walking speed. I ordered more props to try, but the 12-6 apc is doing fine. I snagged the rh counterbalance on a downwind dead stick landing today, so I'm gonna have a little more orange transparent covering on the bird. Still learning all the tricks of both the plane and my eclipse 7 radio.
Old 07-09-2005, 05:00 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I used a Y-lead, but no servo reverser and no problem with unequal throws. It might be the 90 with the offset servos.
Old 07-09-2005, 07:45 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Maybe one of your servos is reversed, eliminating the need for the reverser in the y. The setup requires one to be backwards from the other, no matter how you get there.
Old 07-10-2005, 08:56 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Not if you take one servo output from the opposite side of the arm to the other. I have never used a servo reverser with a Y-lead and I had no problems with either the installation or the operation of the Harrier 46.
Old 07-10-2005, 09:41 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I finished my 46 Harrier the day before yesterday and flew it briefly yesterday morning. I'm quite impressed. I've been flying a 40 Funtana for the last two summers and after flying the Harrier the Funtana will probably be sold. I could never get the Funtana to do a harrier without the wings rocking continously and it was a bear to hover the thing. The ailerons were never very responsive in a hover. The Harrier 46 seems to be just the opposite. The wings didn't rock at all in a harrier and ailerons were quite effective in a hover. Blenders looked just as good, and tic tocks were easier and looked better than with the Funtana. The only manuever that the Funtana did better was a wall. I have a Saito 82 in the front of the Harrier and I'm having trouble getting the CG back into the suggested envelope, once I get the CG on back I'm sure the walls will improve. Landing was a breeze, but I cheat a little. I copied the Funtana setup over to another memory and used that for basic start. I had around forty degress of flaps programmed into the Funtana and I kept that on the Harrier. Makes for steep but slow landings.
Unless you have a reversed servo, a reverser will be necessery with a Y-harness. The two elevator servos are on opposite sides of the tail with the push rods each coming off the top side of the servo. That will make one backward to the other if they are the same model of servo. I fly with a 9Z and plugged each elevator servo into the reciever and let the radio do the reversing. Because I needed to get some weight toward the rear (that Saito 82) I put the reciever and battery at the back of the radio compartment. With that setup and Futaba 9202 servos, one six inch and two twelve inch extensions were needed. I ran the antennae along the bottom of the fusalage, at first the range checks were lousy. By tying the extensions up at the front and getting some clearance between them and the antennae, the range checks improved dramaticaly. Stange that I would have a problem, since I had the same exact setup in the Funtana, minus one extension.
Old 07-10-2005, 09:37 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I flew the crap out of mine today and I am in love with it. Mine does better walls than my F90 ever did, and inverted flat spins are so cool. I am getting very brave with this plane as far as how much I do close to the ground. I have decided that mixing for KE is best done with the sticks, and the thing to remember is that only small amounts of rudder are needed for a good KE, and then there really is not such bad coupling. I'll try flaps for landing next time out. Right now, I like making nose high approaches and just walk it to the runway for a nice slow harrier type landing. My K&B 61 is really impressing me in this plane. I have a new Perry carb on it, so I'm sure that helps. Throttle response and spool up is instantaneous. The only thing I am lacking is that cool four stroke sound, and the extra weight of a four stroke. Mine goes vertical at about half throttle, and can roll all the way out of sight at full throttle. My receiver is next to the throttle servo and the battery is in the rear of the cockpit. CG is just behind the rear mark with the tank empty. I have an 8 oz tank that I swear I flew for 20 minutes trying to run it out of gas. I eventually did, but I know this thing would do fine on 6 0zs. I can keep this plane in a box only 150 feet cubed if I had to, and I usually do keep it right in front of me. Best flying, most maneuverable and most fun plane I have ever had, and that is largely due to the reasonable price tag.
Old 07-11-2005, 08:59 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I got a couple more tanks through mine yesterday. The walls have improved with practice, timing is a little more critical on them than it was with the Funtana. Harriers are great, with or without spoilerons. They may be easier without the spoilerons. I programed in ailevators and that inproved the already good roll control in a harrier. The ailevators improve roll control in a hover also. That was another thing I didn't care for with the Funtana, very little aileron effectiveness in a harrier or hover. The Funtana was very squirrelly in high rates with max throws on the control surfaces, even a quick turn would cause the wing to quit flying. It was almost inpossible to loop in high rates and even in low rates if you pulled elevator quickly the wing would snap. In its defence it would alway start flying as soon as you let off the controls. The Harrier is just the oppisite. Even in high rates you have complete control, you can make loops as big or as tight as you want and it never snaps, flying around is like flying in low rates only quicker. No squirrelyness at all. But when you move the sticks to the extremes, the Harrier can be as wild or wilder than the Funtana. The Funtana is for sale as of yesterday. On the last flight yesterday, I flew until I had had enough fun, landed, handed the transmitter to my son and said, "you should have enough fuel for a while". Several minutes later he was in a harrer about 80 feet up and the engine surged. I said " did you do that" and he answered "yes". A couple seconds later the engine quit. He said" I didn't do that". He dropped the nose and got it flying, but no way could he make the runway. He landed as lightly as possible in the uncut hay about 100 feet away. When we walked out and picked it up there wasn't scratch on it. The covering is tougher than it looks. The Harrier is holding up well to the hammering of the .82 with the exception of the wheelpants. The axle is inlargeing the hole in the outside edge. A small 1/6 ply plate on the inside should fix that. All in all an exceptionally fun and versital airplane.
Old 07-11-2005, 05:30 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

I sure am glad I didn't get the F40. It is a nice looking plane, but looks aren't everything. My harrier does excellent walls, and I don't know what you mean about timing. I just get her moving good, cut the throttle and jam the elevator. She stops right now and doesn't climb. Works the same inverted, too. Most impressive down low. I am glad there are two wing tubes in there to take the stress. I wonder if there will be a giant harrier 160 like the UCD 160. Those planes have a similar layout, but the harrier has a much shorter wing.
Old 07-12-2005, 01:23 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

As I already mentioned, the CG on my Harrier is forward of the recommended envolope. I hate to just add dead weight, so I haven't tried to correct it yet. I may try a larger battery, at least I'll be getting something for the added weight. As it is right now, I have to pull full elevator just as I pull the throttle off. If I wait till the throttle is already off, it never really rotates to a sudden stop. I'm sure if the CG were further back it would rotate much better. If the timing is right, the walls are still quite good. Have you tried full down elevater with spoilerons and full throttle. Most of the time it will tumble once or twice, then spin on a wing tip a couple times, then repeat the process as long as you down elevator and full throttle. Every know and then, it will start spinning on a wing tip and hold that attitude. When it does, it doesn't lose any altitude, it just keep spinning on it's side. Cute as can be, now if I can just figure out the conbination to do it every time.
Old 07-12-2005, 07:35 AM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Nope, I ain't tried that one yet. Next time out i'll be messing with spoilerons and flaps on landings. Hopefully I'll have some new props to try by then also. I guess that saito 82 is fairly heavy, but I would think it would be perfect on this airframe. I don't know who would ever put a 46 in this thing and expect it to balance, much less pull out well. Mine is great with the 61, and I have another one for when I wear this one out.
Old 07-15-2005, 03:34 PM
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Default RE: Harrier 46 all right!

Is it possibe to not mount the motor upsidedown it the Harrier?

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