Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

Mine balanced perfectly with the two elevator and ONE rudder servo in the tail. That was with receiver battery pretty much on CG.

I haven't checked the incidences, and won't unless it flies poorly. You should probably read the thread as it contains info on the incidences, balancing, servo selection, weights, flying charateristics, etc... some good info in here...

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Here are the incedences for you. I've never checked mine and do not intend to since the dang thing flies so well

Stabilizer = 0 degree
Top & bottom wing = -1 degree
Engine down angle = 0 degree
Engine right thrust = 2 degrees

The manual does not say the size of the tank but I'll guess at about 18 ounces

I think back somewhere in this thread someone did plan on using the same engine you are. I not exactly positive about that though. You will definitely need the rudder servo in the tail.

The ailerons are extremely powerful. The book throws on low rates give somewhere around 2 rolls per second and on 3D rates you can literally turn the thing inside out.

Just us on this one. It's a typical Ultimate. Flies like it's on rails, is a great big puddy tat on low rates but crank up the rates and it turns into a monster, albiet a great flying monster. The crank the rates back down and she turns right back into a puddy tat. The only bad thing we have found and it's typical of any bipe, it does not float at all. Chop throtlle and you are flying a brick, go dead stick and you had better be really close to the runway.

Your gonna love it I know I do

Slyder

Must be like my 27% columbo extra. You either come in fast or learn the throttle to drag it in nice and slow. I like the throttle myself.

thevirginian

Maudib, neither, nor. I took a thin walled brass tubing from K&S (LHS sell them on a rack) with slightly less than 12mm I.D. heated it up with my torch and drove it over the tail pipes of the muffler. It is basically a sweat fit. I'll see how long it will stay on. I did the same on my CE except I drilled and tapped for a small set screw to hold it in place.

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

Well... pop another cherry! She's done been maidened.

Got to get busy with the the review now, but I'll share the basics...

The Fuji 43 is a nice match for this plane with regards to IMAC and general flying. It's crisp and smooth. It also have enough umph to do some basic 3D, but real 3D enthusiasts will yearn for more power... there will be a lot of 50's on this plane... and it can handle the weight as it's very light in the air.

I think 50 installers will have to be conservative with the throttle however... I would not be full boring the sky unless you want to leave a trail of balsa. not because the plane isn't built well, but because a 50 can easily take this 14.5-15 lb gasser beyond normal speed limits.

Still, those that put a 50 on it are doing it because they need that !QUOT!wow!QUOT! power and should know to respect it.

The 20x10 ZM prop is a nice match for the engine and airframe but again for IMAC... it's fast and doesn't slow down as much. For instance, full idle down approaches were zero throttle and still pretty fast. Some of that was due to a high idle speed on a new, rich running engine. After a while I was able to dial down the idle and it came in slow and sweet and even needed that blip of throttle I am accustomed to with bipe.

For 3D and perhaps most general flying, I'd recommend a 20x8 MSC... it should slow down better and provide a littler better low end response.

I think overall that when it breaks in and gets a few more hundred RPM and a 20x8 prop that the performance will be very nice... as is it crawls out of a hover and that's just not the power 3D guys are gonna want. Again, the Fuji 43 is a sweetheart of an engine running flawlessly and still having a decent midrange running rich on both ends. A sport flier wanting speed and plenty of power for big loops will LOVE the combination and even more so the combo price. You can't go wrong.

It does in fact have the coupling in knife edge you might expect from most planes... A slight roll to the top wing and a little more pull to the gear. Easily mixed out by hand or radio mixing.

The recommended CG is pretty conservative... and I feel you can go back a good bit... 1/2!QUOT! increments should not get you in any trouble. As set stock it drops a good bit inverted at anything other than higher speeds.

I snapped this thing hard several times.... I really half expected to see the wings give out, and in reality, was trying. Flat spins are pretty nice though with the stock cg the nose wanted to drop more inverted. And it does lose altitude quickly... I think here we see the greatest difference between the biplane and the monowing as whatever wing is on top in the spin isn't catching much wind... thus the much faster descent.

It's very well behaved coming out of any maneuver and simply dropping the nose is all that is needed to get it flying again.

I did a pretty hard slam-into elevator and got a lot of wingrock... It felt pretty washy in the maneuver as the surfaces just didn't have much authority. I think some of this is due to the conservative CG and a small amount due to prop performance at low rpm... Again a wider prop like the MSC might wake it up a good deal here. It really is amazing how a prop design, brand and size change can make.


Ailerons are VERY authoritative.... you can roll blindingly fast on full rate, and even low rates are no slouch... I'd bet most will dial down the ailerons a bit.

I had elevators set to 25 and 45 degrees for lo and hi... Lo was a little too low for me and I'll bump them to maybe 35% with a little more expo... I can't get much more than 45 with my linkage setup, but it seemed PLENTY.

Rudder on full rate will do some funky coupling tricks... this is pretty much par for the course and needs set back till it's the most powerful without undue coupling.

I did a blender or two, some flatspins, most of the IMAC maneuvers including some really smashing snaps... and it did it all without making a noise... you know... pop, crack or kaboom. I didn't really expect any, but you never know and I always cringe the first time I stress the airframe in a new maneuver.

I'm not completely sure it's an all out 3D plane... as there are many specialty planes out there that have design elements that allow for stall speed stability. However, for an all around plane and IMAC tune up... It's a real thumbs up, especially when you consider the value. It's perhaps the best value for entry level gas you can find.

To break it down:

If you are a Sunday flier - this will be your favorite plane
If you are into IMAC and some mild 3D, you can't beat the value/performance combination
If you are new to 3D and want to find a good 3D trainer, keep looking, there are planes that are better to learn on.
If you are a seasoned, hardcore 3D'er... strap a 50cc engine on her and let her rip.


If you simply love Ultimates... this one has the lines, the quality, the performance and the value to become your next project.

Hmmm... well so much for a brief overview... I just wrote my summary...

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

So does "daddy like"

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

"Tommy like wingies" a quote from Tommy boy with Chris Farley...

Yes it is a very nice offering and the lightest in it's class. Since I love to the jam the sticks in every direction (at once), I'd have to say I still like my Double Vision better... but then again, it cost almost as much as the Ultimate did WITH engine.

I was amazed at the quality of the Great Planes Patty Wagstaff Extra and even more so at the price... this new "Perforamnce Series" Ultimate goes way beyond it even. Very promising for this new series from GP.

I expect the CAP 232 in any day now and though to be honest I've never been much of a "CAP Man" am quite excited to see what the next installment in this family of ARFS brings (plus there new scheme is pretty neat)... Then a Yak and an Egde? It seems that someone has been listening... as both GP and Horizon work to release some great offerings in this size category...

iflywhenican

My Feedback: (1)

I have flown my Ultimate a few times at our field now, but even still, when she goes in the air everyone stops and watches. I love it!!!

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

I actually watched Tommy Boy last night, great movie

I'm curious to see what the GP Edge is gonna look like.

I look forward to seeing the review on the Ultimate. Now go bolt in a 50cc and then you will really see what it can do. I've never flown a DV so I cannot say anything about any differences but I can compare the WH Ultimate to this one and the GP defintely "flies" lighter especailly since its a tad over a full pound lighter. The GP's ailerons seem more effective but it definitely has less coupling than the WH Ultimate. Both are very nice machines but the lines on the GP look better to me.

After flying the ZM prop on mine I do like it and all but for 3D it's not gonna be the best so I'll remount the MSC 22X8 and use that for 3D and the ZM for IMAC style stuff

thevirginian

Thanks a bunch, Maudib. Now that's what I call a very elaborate flight report. Even though it's one person's opinion it should give everybody a good indicator what to expect from this airplane. Especially your closing arguments are nicely worded. Thanks again.

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

Thanks for the kind comments Virginian,

It can be hard to seperate ones personal tastes and interests to fairly assess a product. When I look at a product, I try and look at it from the perspective of the intended market segment or fromt he various segments that it is pitched at.

In this case the Ultimate is pitched as a sport flyer, IMAC legal competitior and a 3D machine. A hardcore 3D guy, because he has no interest in sport flying might give lower marks in those categories because he personally doesn't see the value in those applications.

Much like trainers. To do a review on a trainer a person must forget his stick jammin' desires and get into "newbie" perspective. How well is the manual written, did the plane go together easily, how well does the plane taxi and settle in for landing. All the while writing the review sharing the tips and defining what CG is, what coupling is, etc...

We sometimes get accused of writing to "positively" but that is because that person looks at if from their OWN perspective. For the most part the ARFs of today all offer a substantial level of quality and performance. And what makes a review useful is it's ability to talk to the various interested segments.

The other downside is time. Manufacturers, publishers and even endusers want instantaneous reports... huys want to see video and see the process before they buy. Yet, sometimes an airframe "get's better with age". A variety of tweaks like CG, prop, engine, incidence changes, etc can be found out only after a long trial and error process is performed.

That is why I think we see two people where one loves the airplane and the other doesn't. Sometimes you hit the "sweet spot" from the get go... other times it's harder to find. And of course you never know when you've hit the perfomaqnce limit of an airframe.

A good example of this is my Double Vision. I absolutely love it. I have flown it many times and a good buddy saw it fly and was very impressed. He got one, assembled it and flew it a few times. Then sold it saying he didn't like it... that it flew funny, had to have lots of elevator trimmed in for inverted flight, etc.

I'm convinced mine went together "sweet" the first time and juts as sure that his did not... maybe even a problem with cabane reversal, CG incorrect, lateral balance, etc. Becuase I can't see him or anyone not loving the way the DV flies. But he never kept his lng enough to "straighten it out". DO I blame him? Not really. There are so many new airframes coming out every month or so, that we modelres have fallen into a voracious comsumer mode. "Gotta have it" And we move airframes as fast as we can build them. I'm certainly guilty. I've built as least 4 airframe (some to RTF) and sold before I flew them one time.

Other items, like reviews, I may like a lot but move them off simply because of the incoming airframes.

Then once in a while a plane comes along that fits "me". Offers all the things I like to enjoy in a plane, looks right, feels right, sounds right... and it finds a home.

Anywho, as you eluded in your response... yep, a review is just one person's opinion and view... and should be taken as such. I try and explain WHY I come to the conclusions I do, so that if the reader will come to another conclusion, he has that opportunity and can weigh a buying decision accordingly.

Anywho... glad you liked it... can't wait to hear you assessment when you get to fly it. I do think you will like it alot though..

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Maudib,

What a great explanation. One of the best review explanations I've heard in a while and I truly do mean that. I can relate to two different people flying the same plane even to the point of the same equipement. I've run into that myself with my CG Sukhoi and have helped people here getting them setup correctly

In the case of this GP Ultimate, so far it would appear we all are hitting the sweet spot right off the bat or GP just did that good a job in gettng it right in the basic settings like incedences and thrust angles.

I for one followed a few recommenation found in this thread during my assembly and even after I flew it and it just gets better so that shows that your statement about the long term trial and error is just as accurate.

I figure I'll someday stop tweaking this thing and really cut it loose, I'm just not sure when that will come. Along the way if I run into something that works well for me I will post it in here for those that may want to give it a shot, which is what RCU is all about.

I look forward to your Giant Scale DVD's once you get them released. I looked at the sample and I must say it looks like they are going to be well done. You could not have picked a better plane to do them around. Maybe QQ will get you to edit them if needed and include them with his planes.

MormonMike

My Feedback: (2)

Guys, now that you have some run-time on this Ulti, would you double check the area around engine mount and on back to where it mounts in the fuse. Just want to be sure nothing is starting to loosen up. [ glue joints ] Gassers do vibrate more. Please report your findings. Thanks, MM

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

I guess it is about that time to do a complete check over. Thanks for remining me

thevirginian

Maudib, what do you mean by "you will like it..." .I do like it already even without having it flown yet . Reading all those positive feed backs convinced me. Right now I have to wait 'till my Hitec digitals will come back from software update. The weather right now is not necessarely favorable for flying or for maiden an airplane like this. So, I guess I have to wait a little longer and build up the suspense, which is going to kil me slowly[sm=bananahead.gif] Once I maidened mine, you can bet on it, I will let you all know.

thevirginian

MM, you didn't fiberglass your motor box on both sides?[X(] I don't want to sound like a smart a.... but when using a gasser I always do that at least on one side. The added weight is negligible but the gain is priceless.

MormonMike

My Feedback: (2)

Virginian, of course, I always reinforce, H-9 products taught me that. I was just wondering [for those that did'nt] if anything up front is starting to loosen up by now. I've been away for a while, that info on the servo conversion electric kill switch is RCM June 04 mag, page 42. It may be too complicated for most people to attempt. Still way too snowy and cold to maiden my Ulti yet. Seeya, MM

thevirginian

Hey, MM, any chance you could elaorate on that servo-kill switch conversion? I am really interested in it.

MormonMike

My Feedback: (2)

Sure. Remember, I do not have a way to post photos here---- yet. A little back-ground in electronics seem's to help. Can you obtain the article? Radio Shack has all the hardware, about eight bucks is all. An older used servo is the basis. The schmatic from the article is not difficult to follow. Some soldering with a fine tip is needed. After it's assembled, you have to "zero" the servo to neutral. Do that with a needle-nose pliers, easy enough. The relay is normally closed, when you toggle your preferred switch on your TX, the servo energizes the relay to the open position. This is probably too difficult for the younger generation to attempt, but, I found it an interesting challenge for a day when your snowed in. HINT--- use a MAXX Products heavy duty switch with the battery power indicator level on it then you can tell if the ignition is on or off for sure. Hope this helps, It's not the best description, Seeya, MM

thevirginian

Thanks, MM
I was going to make me a switch from an old battery switch and have it mechanically operated by a HS-81 via a short pushrod. I did the same for a magneto igniton gasser and it still works reliably.

thevirginian

Well, I had a chance to weigh my Ultimate ready to fly. I was happily surprised to find out that the total weight was only 14.75 lbs[sm=sunsmiley.gif] I used a calibrated postal scale, so I can pretty much believe the numbers I read off. I am really excited now.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

COOL....[sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif] Any idea on when you will be able to maiden it???

MormonMike

My Feedback: (2)

Virginian, That's interesting, I never thought to use a smaller servo, like an HS-81. Can't see why it would'nt work, and take up less space too. Also, since "Old Man Winter" is here, anyone thought to use snow skies on Ulti ? MM

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

In the end I opted to replace the 1500 lipoly pack and switch to a 4800 lion... I too ended up at the 14.75 lb. mark.

You should be excited...

I submitted the review article and hopefully it will post quickly. I have a video that really shows the power overall. I't not my best video, but does show a good cross section of the plane's ability with the 43... It was cool that day and my buddy (the camera guy) had to go pretty quickly so I didn't get as much footage as I had wanted...

Here is a "teaser" showing a pretty good cross section of the plane and it's power with the 43...

[link=http://www.rcguild.com/videos/ultimatesnippet.wmv]Right Click This Link and Select SAVE AS TARGET[/link]

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Maudib,

Nice video...[sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]