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Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Old 03-19-2006, 10:50 AM
  #201  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

AT, i'm curious what kind of figure you are coming up with for the D/A-50.....
Old 03-19-2006, 01:43 PM
  #202  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

AT, i'm curious what kind of figure you are coming up with for the D/A-50.....
3-D Flyer

I am sorry but there are no RPM/Props specs in the DA website for the 50. If you have any data (real time tach readings are best) let me know and I can try to calc some figures.
Old 03-20-2006, 10:42 AM
  #203  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

how about some one fly this airplane and then tell us what they think about it. Only one guy mentions flying it and they didn't offer much info.
Old 03-20-2006, 12:48 PM
  #204  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Airtech,

Have you firsthand experienced a Evolution 45 turn a 24x10 prop at 6200? And with what a stock muffler? Tuned Pipe?

Horizon's specs show the engine to really be a 43cc engine.

They also state the benchmark prop as a 23x8 Mejzlik at 6100...

Zinger's are notoriously "light pullers' as are TopFlight's

As someone else mentioned somewhere... they make real good paint stirrers.

Even then I'll be the first to state I don't believe the 45 can spin a 24x10 prop at 6200... and it if CAN because it's a wimpy prop, then a 50 CC engine can spin the SAME EXACT PROP faster... considerably.

To compare apples to apples plug in a 23x8 Menz at 7100 that's my verifiable rpms's on a DA-50... or

Sure I could spin a 24x10 Zinger... and considerably faster than the 45 will (whatever that real number is)... but why? it's not an ideal prop for 3D OR IMAC on a 50cc or less engine.

The 45 weighs within tenths of an oz of a DA50... and unless they have some "magic" that no other engine has cannot put out the same power.

When they also cost the same and the 50 has over 16% more cc's of power at the same weight... well...

It's been covered about the ThrustHP figures... and while certainly a nice benchmark for comparing engines spinning the same prop, actual thrust tends to be perhaps 30% less than "calc'd"


ORIGINAL: AirTech

One of the most widely used software to calculate thrust and horsepower output is ThrustHP. This freeware is available at [link=http://freespace.virgin.net/barry.hobson/software/goodies.html]Model Goodies[/link]. In the case of an engine (i.e. MVVS 45GX) turning a 24-10 at 6200 RPM a Zinger wood prop should produce 5.648 HP and 36.08 Lb. of static thrust. The same engine with a MenzS will produce the same power, and 37.19 Lb. of static thrust. In comparison the new ZDZ40 RV-L will need to turn a (much smaller) 20-10 MenzS at 7400 RPM to produce 4.631 HP and 25.54 Lb of thrust. On the other hand a BME 50cc Single spinning a 21-8 MenzS will need to turn at least 8100 RPM !!! to produce 5.906 HP and 37.19 Lb of static thrust.

Old 03-20-2006, 12:50 PM
  #205  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

LOL..... Don.... i agree, But i'll bet there are alot of people sitting in the wings waiting for the flight reports before they build or purchace their aircraft. I am just about ready for a run up on mine, however the weather here SUX!
Plus our field is closed right now awaiting blacktop for a new entry and parking lot..... so i am not sure when i'll get mine up. looking forward to it tho. It's terrible! I have a Brand New GP 33% Cap 580 awaiting her maiden, My son is awiting his maiden on a Brand New H9 33% Cap 232, and just around the corner we have a Brand New 40% Carden Extra 260 being custom built, that is getting close as well.... so needless to say we have our share of "tweeking" to do this spring. Just waiting for opening day and good weather!
Old 03-20-2006, 02:14 PM
  #206  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Maudib

I don't think many people have much experience with the 45GX so far, being practically a brand new engine on the market. As I mentioned before manufacturers specifications are mostly inflated. So if you want to compare any engine against another one you don't have much "real" data to go with. The most one can do, especially with a new engine is to "guesstimate".

My point in using a 40cc class engine in the GP Yak is a matter of "installation ease". I have a ZDZ 40RV I could have used in this plane, but I am a little adventurous and will like to try something new in this engine class. I am sure the ZDZ will fly the Yak as well, or maybe better than the Evolution, and you can install it fairly easy on the GP Yak.
Probably the easiest engine to install in this model is the recommended Fuji EI-43. BUT what the heck........different strokes for different folks. There is people that will swear by their DA's and I think is more like the Harley against Rice Burner controversy, you know.......is made in America, so it has to be better. And by the way I am not on any one engine distributor payroll. As far as I concerned you can install a Lycoming IO-540 if that's what you like. (It may ruin your wingloading, but the thrust to weight ratio would be out of this world)

By the way I plugged the "real world" data for the DA (23-8 MenzS @ 7100 RPM) versus the same prop at (a theoretical) 6200 RPM on the Evolution. And while the DA shows some 10 Lb more thrust, the thrust to weight ratio difference is only .7 Lb more for the GP Yak wingloading. So...in the final analysis, I am not going to loose any sleep over this controversy.
Old 03-20-2006, 04:07 PM
  #207  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

We have sport engines and we have High performance engines!
Old 03-20-2006, 04:10 PM
  #208  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Maudid & Airtech


By the way thanks for all the great info you guys provide.
Old 03-20-2006, 04:20 PM
  #209  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

My point was you were quoting these virtual figures around as if they had some real meaning. To calc an engine to run at some RPM that is not verifiable doesn't do any reader justice. What would someone think of your data if they ran out and bought a E45 based on the hypothetical data only to find out they wasted $25-$30 on the prop as the engine won't spin it.... or wrose yet be dissappointed at the perfromacen vs a 50CC engine they could have bought with the same money...

I don't get the "ease to install" thing either... how is the 45 any easier to install than say a DA50?

I'm also not sure I follow the .7 lb wingloading thing... the 45 and 50 weigh almost identical... so if you ask anyone if they'd like to have 10 lbs more thrust on a 15 lb plane for the same price what do you think the answer would be?

(I really don't think it's 10 lbs more... (ir's probably less maybe 5-6 lbs in real life) as you just threw some numbers again at the 45)

I'm really not trying to give you a hrad time, as I'm sure the 45 is a great engine... and Horizon is an excellent company... but to take theoretical data and comapre it to real world data is misleading and certainly has no value to readers.

I would MUCH rather see you get one in, weigh it, spin a couple props on it and report the results. You kind of did the same thing regarding the 58... you really seem to like the engines... so you can best help their potential users by reporting your personal findings instead of comparing theoretical data that may very well not prove out. It doesn't help potential buyers to fairly assess the engines.

Truth is I believe the 45 HAS been out long enough for many people to come on line and say things like "OMG, this thing is spinning a 23x8 at 7,200 rpm... or some such thing... instead I've read basically nothing on the engine which is generally not an overly good indicator that it's meeting or coming close to expectations.

I would expect a powerful 43cc engine to put out maybe 6200-6400 rpms on a 22x8 Menz and an inverted pitts and perhaps 6600-6800 on a tuned pipe... still not anywhere near the 7000+ on a DA50 with stock muffler. They are the same weight, similar physical dimensions and identical in cost...




ORIGINAL: AirTech

Maudib

I don't think many people have much experience with the 45GX so far, being practically a brand new engine on the market. As I mentioned before manufacturers specifications are mostly inflated. So if you want to compare any engine against another one you don't have much "real" data to go with. The most one can do, especially with a new engine is to "guesstimate".

My point in using a 40cc class engine in the GP Yak is a matter of "installation ease". I have a ZDZ 40RV I could have used in this plane, but I am a little adventurous and will like to try something new in this engine class. I am sure the ZDZ will fly the Yak as well, or maybe better than the Evolution, and you can install it fairly easy on the GP Yak.
Probably the easiest engine to install in this model is the recommended Fuji EI-43. BUT what the heck........different strokes for different folks. There is people that will swear by their DA's and I think is more like the Harley against Rice Burner controversy, you know.......is made in America, so it has to be better. And by the way I am not on any one engine distributor payroll. As far as I concerned you can install a Lycoming IO-540 if that's what you like. (It may ruin your wingloading, but the thrust to weight ratio would be out of this world)

By the way I plugged the "real world" data for the DA (23-8 MenzS @ 7100 RPM) versus the same prop at (a theoretical) 6200 RPM on the Evolution. And while the DA shows some 10 Lb more thrust, the thrust to weight ratio difference is only .7 Lb more for the GP Yak wingloading. So...in the final analysis, I am not going to loose any sleep over this controversy.
Old 03-20-2006, 04:40 PM
  #210  
Don d
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Let us quit bragging about our expensive gas engines and fly this thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you guys don't, I will in a few days. I can't afford a fancey engine right now so, it will have to be my old ST-2500. Might barely hover at full trottle, but I'm sure it will fly the dang thing. It's only a "thing" until it flys.
Old 03-20-2006, 04:42 PM
  #211  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Let us know how it goes...

Aftet it flies what does it become... a she?

ORIGINAL: Don d

Let us quit bragging about our expensive gas engines and fly this thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you guys don't, I will in a few days. I can't afford a fancey engine right now so, it will have to be my old ST-2500. Might barely hover at full trottle, but I'm sure it will fly the dang thing. It's only a "thing" until it flys.
Old 03-20-2006, 08:40 PM
  #212  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Let us quit bragging about our expensive gas engines and fly this thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you guys don't, I will in a few days. I can't afford a fancey engine right now so, it will have to be my old ST-2500. Might barely hover at full trottle, but I'm sure it will fly the dang thing. It's only a "thing" until it flys.
Amen brother !!!!!! Let’s get these planes together and fly the darn things. Then if you like we can spend the rest of the flying season measuring RPMs, thrust, etc, so we can brag which engine is the best. In the meantime a whole bunch of kids will be 3D'ing their foamies like regular Quique Somenzini, and having the time of their life.

We are sure getting a bit too ultra technical, instead of having fun and getting some fun fly time experience. Is not super tweaked engines in very expensive airframes what wins tournaments. Good eyesight, hand eye coordination, quick reflexes and youth is what makes ANY plane fly like a tournament ship. I have been flying so far this year almost once a week, and I think I am getting rusty.

So I can't wait to try this bird out in the air, where it belongs, and see what it can do. I'll worry about trimming and performance when I get there. Good luck to all, and post any info on all those upcoming maidens.
Old 03-20-2006, 10:59 PM
  #213  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Dick Pettit teased us a month ago when he got his. Sure would like to hear what he can tell us. No doubt an R/C Reprt article is coming.
Old 03-21-2006, 10:32 AM
  #214  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Hey guys, just thought i would let you know, there is a Vid of one flying on The Flying Giants website..... It's Kris's Maiden flight, I I recall i believe he was doing some of the Basic IMAC routine with it. His was BME-44 Powered.... since then he has been trying to put the plane on a diet but i believe he liked the plane.... that thread has been quiet for awhile now... Just thought that would give you guys anticipating this thing some insight....
Old 03-21-2006, 01:47 PM
  #215  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Hi,
I was looking at both the GP yak and the carl goldberg yak what does everyone think is a better plane?? Or the new QQ yak?
Old 03-21-2006, 06:24 PM
  #216  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Don't know about the Goldberg, I have a buddy that built that one, I saw it at our last club meeting.... very nice but smaller..... the GP is alot of bang for your buck, but a tad on the heavy side.... If you have the Bucks... i would go with the QQ Lighter for sure, and a bigger wing.... That is if you are looking to go gas powered.... I personally just wanted to try this thing out. If i do not like it i will just strip it, sell it and move on to somthing else, but my gut tells me it should be a keeper for this season... we'll see!
Old 03-21-2006, 06:30 PM
  #217  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Get the QQ Yak.
Old 03-22-2006, 12:48 AM
  #218  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

If you have he cash go with the QQ. Excellent plane with a 50cc engine.
Old 03-22-2006, 08:10 AM
  #219  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

I was talking about the new QQ with the 72 inch wingspan that will be out in may. How much does the great planes Weigh??
Old 03-22-2006, 08:35 AM
  #220  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Actually the new version of the QQ Yak is 73" and features not just an 1" wider WS, but more wing area due also to a deeper chord... Approximately 1048 I think.

The GP Yak is 81" and 1138 sq in.

They are really different sized birds... however if both are equipped with an O.S. 1.60 FX they will have similar wingloadings but of course the 73" QQ will have a greater power to weight ratio.

I'm guessing the GP will build out at around 13.5 with the OS 1.60 and the QQ will come in around 12 or so...

The QQ comes now with CF wingtube, balllinks and 4/40 titanium pushrods.

They should also be available first part of April... and shipping by mid month perhaps sooner...

On the other side of the coin, I've reviewed the GP Ultimate 1.60 and CAP 232 1.60... both in the performance series, and they were both built most excellent, quality all around. Not all the higher end CF stuff as QQ planes... but really nice. I have yet to fly the CAP, but the Ultimate was a wonderful flying plane.

SO I suppose it comes down to what you prefer...

The GP is larger and comes with a spinner, the QQ is a little smaller but will offer a good deal more power to weight ratio at a similar wingloading. They are similarly priced when you include shipping.
Old 03-22-2006, 12:01 PM
  #221  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Maudib.... Do you have your mitts on one of these GP-Yaks? I would be really interested into hearing your comments and opinoins on this one! Just curious. From reading things you have done in the past i would assume yours would be D/A-50 powered??
Old 03-22-2006, 01:00 PM
  #222  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Not yet, but I have one supposedly coming for review... there might be a few surprises up my sleeve on this one.

I do look forward to getting a close look at one though. I suspect it will be a little heavier than previous designs due to the more complex shape/construction methods/large cowl. But certainly should be built fairly light for it's size.

If it would come in at 15.25 with a Fuji43/DA50 that wouldn't be bad at all. But that remains to be seen...

I don't think I'll be seeing mine til sometime early to mid next month. In the meantime I like to lurk and read and get a feel for what people are focusing on, potential problems, weights, setups...

Sorry I couldn't be of more immediate help.
Old 03-22-2006, 02:11 PM
  #223  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

No Problem, I just assumed you jumping in this thread that you were about to start one.... As far as 15.25# on this bird with a D/A-50 yes it is very possible. I had mine @ 14.5# dry before i balanced, i am too lazy to block up the engine further and change the throttle linkage etc, sooo, I decided as this bird was not set up with 2 r/x packs that i would just do that and get the balast i needed to get the CG. So at least the weight gain supplies redundancy as well. I should come in just a little under 15# RTF, I'll be happy with that. (I HOPE!)
Old 03-22-2006, 02:27 PM
  #224  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Yep, I'm still in the "teasing" stage. I had a Fuji 43 on order and now that say early April for delivery. Mine is complete except for engine and ignition system.

http://www.bcmaengines.com/

I may have one of these engines for an engine review, maybe the 40cc size.

That engine may be a good candidate for the YAK, but nobody has had experience with them.

They sound good on paper, power and weight wise.
Old 03-22-2006, 03:28 PM
  #225  
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Yak 81" 12-lb, seen on Fly3D Magazine

Cool! You can chop down trees and fly at the same time! LOL.....

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