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I am starting to hate 3d flying

Old 01-17-2006, 01:34 PM
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go vertical
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Default I am starting to hate 3d flying

over the past few years i have seen the trend of 3d flying grow from the WOW factor to a hazard at local fields I can fly most 3D manuvers and enjoy doing so [but] in the last couple of years I get new students who are so impresed with 3D they don't want to take the time to learn to fly in a maner that teaches good flying skills they become [dangerous] I have been to local and some of the larger flyins and have watched the trend go from seeing some great flying and and a large diversity of airplanes to only aerobatic planes that can do 3D over the runway low and in the way of nornal flying I enjoy seeing all typs of planes but the sence the 3D craze has hit you see less diversity and less flying by the average flyer the 3D flyers take over fly over the runway make it difficult for the non 3D to get in the air and make a tence time when they do with cloce in flying of large powerfull planes to many pilots who are flying the 3d are are all about the [hey look at me] I am even guilty of that myself when it was brought to my atention that some of the members felt uneasy flying when i was up so on a busy day at the local field I don't fly 3D when others wan't to fly

I fly a compsit arf YAK 100 class I have been flying for over 30 years
Old 01-17-2006, 01:39 PM
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Dealspeed
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

I most definetly agree with you there, most the time Id rather just head down to the middle school by my house and fly, then its just me and a few of my good friends who I trust.
Most these idiots dont think of the dangers involved in learning 3D flight 10 feet off the ground, when I was learning I was three mistakes high, the flight sims were good for learning to get low.
Old 01-17-2006, 01:45 PM
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LSP972
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

Take up IMAC or Pattern flying.

I was at an IMAC Basic seminar this past week-end. Nobody hovered over the runway, nobody was flip-flopping around in the approach pattern, and the only stick-banging was done by a local with a 40% airplane on smoke, and he actually had some symmetry and balance to his "routine"; it was most impressive.
Old 01-17-2006, 01:46 PM
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exeter_acres
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

Wow... wonder what it is like to fly perfectly....



pssst... for some... 10 ft IS 3 mistakes high
Old 01-17-2006, 02:06 PM
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Dealspeed
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

ORIGINAL: exeter_acres



pssst... for some... 10 ft IS 3 mistakes high
Well for the experienced flyer 10 feet is three mistakes high, but were not talking about seasoned pilots here, were talking about guys just starting to learn 3D.
Old 01-17-2006, 02:08 PM
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tuwood
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

I do aspire to be a good 3D pilot someday but as I watch some of the video's published by the teenager crowd (mostly), it's pretty obvious that many are not very safety concious.
Things like hovering a 1/4 scale plane over your buddy while he's filming it & grabbing the fin. etc...

Old 01-17-2006, 03:10 PM
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Bob Laine
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

I'll take a good "Scale" contest over any other type flying any day. I like to see "scale" airplanes, doing scale aerobatics. That includes aerobatic aircraft like the Extras, Edge's, Cap's et. In a Scale contest, you'll see all types of aircraft doing only the maneuvers the full size airplane was capable of performing. Be it 3D, or whatever.
Old 01-17-2006, 03:59 PM
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mwarren400
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

Lets call a spade a spade here. The lack of courtesy and/or the lack of safety consciousness is the primary concern here. Not 3D. I dont fly down on the deck or in the center of the field when there are other club members flying the pattern. Nor do the other 3D flyers in my club. Truth be told....I am more comfortable with the guys at my club that fly risky bad-ass maneuvers than I am with the guys who have been flying for years and yet every takeoff, pattern, and landing is an adventure. In fact...when they are in the air...I become a silent spotter (for everyoone else's safety).

Take the time to chat about it in a non-confrontational way...and I'm sure you'll get your point across. Sometimes when you talk to someone as if you are talking about someone else...they get the idea.

Old 01-17-2006, 04:13 PM
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exeter_acres
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

good post....

put it this way.....

the only times (yes that is plural) that I have been nearly killed... were people flying an LT-40, a P-40 Warhawk, and a pylon racer..........
Old 01-17-2006, 04:17 PM
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Bob Laine
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

This is almost like the same problem I have when someone makes the statement that they hate to pass "BIG RIG" trucks on a mountain road. My reply is, "I'd rather pass a professional "Truck" driver, any time than a normal passenger car driver. The same holds true for the better 3D flyer's. The 3D fliers, are probably the safest flier's at the field. If you belong to a club that allows unsafe flying............ I suggest the problem lies with the "CLUB," not with the fliers. Most of the better fliers, (3D pilots) won't even attempt to fly when the Newbies or anyone else takes to the air that is not a skilled pilot. Unsafe is unsafe. I don't care who or what type flying is being performed.
Old 01-17-2006, 04:30 PM
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

the lack of courtsey is just all to common i witnesed a pilot at a giant scale event flying a H9 souki in such a reckless maner that even the most experinced pilots backed up when he was in the air and I agree that there are some long time piolets that make me edgey just takeing off and landing [but] when a new piolt just out of training wants a full blowen 3D plane just because he wants to do what I can do he says how hard can it be you make it look easy that makes me nerves those of us who fly 3D didn't start with a 3D plane but it seems that new pilots want to do it right away I have had newbes ask if they can hover there trainer before they can even land
Old 01-17-2006, 05:22 PM
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exeter_acres
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

Bob hit it..... you can NOT classify a style... it is a person by person basis... and if the activity is normal...than it is a club issue....

there are several people who fly at my club that I keep an eye on...and when they take off..... I immediately land.... and stand behind something....
and not one of those people fly 3D
Old 01-17-2006, 05:28 PM
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mwarren400
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

You do have a point about people wanting to try maneuvers before they are ready...I am guilty of that myself (my hovering was done 5 mistakes high though). It also comes down to money....the people flying cheap(er) foamies are going to take a lot more risks than somebody will take with .40 size or larger plane. Once you get to quarter scale...most guys that risk their equipment are damn good and damn safe fliers.

I'll give you a somewhat unrelated example...I got into Kart racing in the early 90's. These things could go over 130 mph and cost about $7,000. We raced on the same tracks the big boys do (Pocono, Charlotte, Mid-Ohio, Daytona, etc.) I actually started in the most advanced class...not because I was skilled...but because the drivers in the Unlimited Class were more courteous, more respectful, and much better(safer) drivers. Plus there were only 25 of us on the track at a time. The idiots in the Sprint class, however, went 50mph slower, drove all over each other, and raced in packs of a hundred. They looked and sounded like a swarm of bees. The ambulance workers got a whole lot more excitement with those guys.
Old 01-17-2006, 06:32 PM
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

I am pretty much the only hardcore aerobatic pilot at my field, so I rarely fly when others are in the air, simply because flying the [circle] pattern is about as fun as watching paint dry, to me. However, if I am in the air and I hear a guy taxi up and ask if it is Okay to come out, I welcome them with open arms, figuratively speaking, and join them in the circle pattern until I get bored (about 2 minutes) and land. I must admit, though, that there are times when I am having just too much fun and I fail to maintain the pattern, but I never put others in danger...
Old 01-17-2006, 06:41 PM
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

here we go there is the ego thing it's not me we are more skilled and the real laugh by the time they buy a 3D plane they are safe
Old 01-17-2006, 07:20 PM
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Devin McGrath
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

There is allot of good points going around... here is my take on it. I believe that is the responsibility of the pilot to be a safe flyer there is nothing wrong with doing the 3D maneuvers but there is a time and place for everything. Most of my flying is done in my front yard but when I go to meets I fly the pattern and do pattern maneuvers such as rolling circles one, roll rolling circles, knife edge passes ect.. but when the air is clean ill be the first one up ready to do 3D and hovering all around the field. This also goes for indoor flying, pattern when there is allot of people flying and 3d when I have the space. If the pilot is being reckless then it’s the job of the people about him to either bring it to his attention or to the attention of the club. No one wants to be the bad guy but when it’s a safety issue then it’s a necessary evil.
Old 01-17-2006, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying


I didn't know 3D was actually "flying"... I thought to actually fly, an aircraft had to be on its wings (i.e. producing lift)..

Anyone wanting to learn how to really fly an airplane should take up IMAC for a season or two... one doesn't even necessarily need to compete - just get a good pilot to give you some pointers and then practice the routines on your own. I have found it quite a revelation that once one actually knows how to masterfully control an airplane in sequences, learning 3D "flight" is a lot easier. My guess is that too many people go from trainer to 3D without really learning how to artfully control their airplane.

I like some of the 3D elements, but fit them into a normal flight routine. My average flight is 2/3 sequences or random aerobatics and 1/3 3D.

I stay on the ground and put my plane under the ramada when the inexperienced 3Ders are in the air... I have better things to do than spend most of my time preventing myself or my airplane becoming fodder for some hack.

DP
Old 01-17-2006, 07:34 PM
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wgeffon
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying


ORIGINAL: desertpig



Anyone wanting to learn how to really fly an airplane should take up IMAC for a season or two...
Absafrikinlutely!!


Old 01-17-2006, 07:41 PM
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famousdave
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

ORIGINAL: exeter_acres

Bob hit it..... you can NOT classify a style... it is a person by person basis... and if the activity is normal...than it is a club issue....

there are several people who fly at my club that I keep an eye on...and when they take off..... I immediately land.... and stand behind something....
and not one of those people fly 3D

LMFAO... we have a bunch of those guys at our field too.... sometimes what I see their planes do looks like 3D !!


DP
Old 01-17-2006, 07:45 PM
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

devin that is the proper atitude [but] I have seen more of the other wrong way atitude at more events with 3D flying it's just not the less experanced pilots even the seasond piolets are taking over the flyins giving little time to other flyers but my real beef is that less than skilled pilots are just plain not wanting to hone there skills before learning 3D us who fly 3D are part to blame we d
on't say learn this first then i will show you 3D

I like the IMAC train of thought
Old 01-17-2006, 08:07 PM
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

I just hope some folks (and you know who you are... or at least I hope so) fly better than they spell

If you want to get a belly full of 3-D flying, just attend 30 minutes or so of any Joe Nall. You'll see hovering/torque rolls/harriers/etc/etc/ad nauseum. Gets old in a big hurry. I've had more fun watching a bumper rust.

All of that said, this is just my opinion. If you don't like this one, I have others
Old 01-17-2006, 08:13 PM
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

3d what is that ? just kidding
Old 01-17-2006, 08:24 PM
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Devin McGrath
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

Go vertical- I don't encounter many other people in my club doing 3D at the field but the few that do including myself respect the other people flying and wait until there is no one else up to do the 3D stuff. Personally I love to fly pattern as well as 3D so its no big deal to me to fly with other people and just do normal aerobatics. I have been to some meets that there has been guys flying mid field hovering and I don't mind too much. Although it messes up the pattern and makes flying less enjoyable when you have to watch to see if your going to hit something parked right in the pattern just sitting there hovering. I admit to doing some 3D maneuvers in the pattern like a rolling harrier but staying in the pattern. It does slow down allot but no slower than say a big tiger moth lol. I try my best to stay out of people’s way. When it comes down to it we are all just out there to have a good time even they guys who you don't want to be flying when your within 10 miles of the field
Old 01-17-2006, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying


I agree with you Devin, 3-D has had a profound impact on the hobby, club members are always talking about

how 3-D flying while other pilots are trying to stay within a pattern is very risky unless there is constant communication

between pilots. That communication also becomes a distraction, which results in loss of concentration. Don't take this the

wrong way, I admire the site of a model hovering inches from the ground, but 3-D flying should be limited to one model

at a time, especially giant scale. 3-D flying has taken the hobby by storm, but unfortunately it has also changed the way

flying fields function.





Thanks, Vinny!
Old 01-17-2006, 10:54 PM
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Bob Laine
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Default RE: I am starting to hate 3d flying

I have seen many "FAD'S come and go in this hobby in the forty five years I've been involved in it. Most new types of flying last for only a few short seasons, and then gives way to the next great style of flying. Believe me....3D will also fade away. And by then, maybe something new will be introduced to take it's place. and another whole new design of aircraft will come along to support it. After all.......3D is just another stepping stone for those fliers that really wish they were more competitive in "IMAC." and Scale like flying.

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