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New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

Old 08-25-2006, 04:26 PM
  #101  
MikeEast
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

No wonder it has taken off. It is the best and most concise tutor on 3D moves.

Ernie

Ernie, I sure hope it is useful. I am not the best 3D pilot out there and am subject to error, but there are some really badass 3D guys that frequent this forum. I sure hope that their silence is because I am covering all the bases. If anyone sees anything that is wrong, speak up. I am a big boy and can take criticism, heck I want to learn too and hopefully I can learn a few things from this discussion.

The main objective of this thread since Bill started it was to provide the correct information for you guys so that you have the RIGHT information to help you progress with your 3D skills. I dont care who it comes from as long as it is accurate, clear and helpful. I certainly hope that if there is anything that is wrong, or there is something to add, someone will speak up. Everything I have posted is what works for me. Make no mistake, I am convinced that the methods I use are effective and definitely work well, but I am sure they are not the "only" or necessarily the "best" way to get it done.
Old 08-25-2006, 08:33 PM
  #102  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers


ORIGINAL: Gulliver

This string has obviouslu "taken off" so, as Bubbagate suggested in the originating post, how about maiking it a sticky at the beginning of the forum ?

I have asked the powers that be to allow it to be a sticky, actually 2 days ago, bit as of right now, there has been no answer []
Old 08-26-2006, 11:28 AM
  #103  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

i found i can give more down ele(inverted spin) and it almost will go into a waterfal but still twisting, anyway, it will come out of the spin that way too, then you can go a bit lower with it as well, i have to admit though i usually just fly out like mentioned, but if you have the throw, thats another option..
ORIGINAL: MikeEast


ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

>>> To do it all you do is switch from down to up elevator and right to left rudder at the same time >>>

My 4* 40 freaks me out because it wants to keep on spinning (upright spin, wing with dihedral) after I relax the controls and the ground is getting closer. I've been poking the nose down into a dive to get it flying again. That eats up more space though that you might not have. So to get it out of the spin as quickly as possible, should I be reversing the sticks as above?

Thanks,

Ernie

COOL!! That means you are in a REAL flat spin. To me there is nothing cooler looking, but not a more helpless feeling, than a plane that gets hung up in a flat spin. My 37% Ultimate used to get hung up all the time and I would make heart pounding exits at much lower altitudes than I would have liked.

Different planes react in different ways to a flat spin so its really hard to say exactly what you need to do to get out. What you are doing is the most common way to exit a spin that will always works, that is just point the nose downward and fly out. I dont really think about it when its happening, but I think that to stop the spin I put in a little opposite rudder and bump the throttle to get a little wind moving across the rudder and it stops. It takes practice and you do not want to over do it because spin inputs are about the same as snap inputs and if you get too agressive you can get the plane flying and then restall the wing into a deadly snap if you are too low.

I think experience will help you to be able to gracefully manhandle the plane out of a spin and put it where you want it as you get better. I am just an average decent 3D pilot, far from a pro, but with countless hours of practice I have now gotten to the point where I can exit a flat spin just about any way I choose. My favorite thing to do is spin right down over the runway and exit by stopping the spin in either an inverted or upright elevator then down to a inverted/upright harrier and then going right into a rolling harrier. It looks really pretty when its done right. I look forward to the day when I can hit it perfectly.
Old 08-26-2006, 12:02 PM
  #104  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

Mike,

I think the reason there are less "higher up" posts in here at the moment is because you are doing a great job. The folks are asking questions and you're answering them with useful and understandable information that helps them translate the info into actions. That probably leaves you a little busier than you want, but the price of success does come a little high sometimes

Another reason is because this thread gets buried back in the pages quite often and gets brushed by when someone is quickly scanning the first page. I'm as bad as many in that I don't "bookmark" the page to make it easier to locate. Until it becomes a "sticky" bookmarking will be the fastest way to return to this thread. It's a great thread and contains extreme amounts of good and useful information for those interested in 3D.

BTW, you can 3D better than I can anyway Keep up the great work!

Pat
Old 08-26-2006, 12:36 PM
  #105  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

I just got the approval for the sticky so now it is
Old 08-26-2006, 12:44 PM
  #106  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers


ORIGINAL: Silversurfer

Mike,

I think the reason there are less "higher up" posts in here at the moment is because you are doing a great job. The folks are asking questions and you're answering them with useful and understandable information that helps them translate the info into actions. That probably leaves you a little busier than you want, but the price of success does come a little high sometimes

Another reason is because this thread gets buried back in the pages quite often and gets brushed by when someone is quickly scanning the first page. I'm as bad as many in that I don't "bookmark" the page to make it easier to locate. Until it becomes a "sticky" bookmarking will be the fastest way to return to this thread. It's a great thread and contains extreme amounts of good and useful information for those interested in 3D.

BTW, you can 3D better than I can anyway Keep up the great work!

Pat
Pat,

I could not have said it better...very well put as usual
Old 08-26-2006, 12:44 PM
  #107  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

great thread,never could do a knife edge spin, but after reading a few post's in here, i can do it everytime with the double vision, nothing looks better than a big bipe in a knife edge spin.
this thead should have it's own fourm, so it does not get buried.keep a good thing going.
ENJOY!
Old 08-26-2006, 01:05 PM
  #108  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

EXCELLENT! I am glad it is finally going to stick to the top!!

Here is a little video I put together on AFPD last night trying to learn how to use the FRAPS video capture software. Its a pretty decent video, but the actual video quality I can improve a good bit. My intentions now that I have figured out how to capture sim video is to put a little clip of each maneuver in the different postings here to demonstrate how it should look. I guess you saw this video on the other site silversurfer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvHGhjW8CHo

We are working on getting some good quality real life video footage as well, but good vid cameras are not cheap. Eventually I will get it, I have to have it for some reviews I will be doing anyway. The sim is a good representation but its really not as comfortable as doing it in 3 dimensions where depth perception helps to judge what the plane is doing.

Look back at the maneuver descriptions. I will be adding some of those clips shortly.[8D]
Old 08-26-2006, 04:55 PM
  #109  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

When doing a rolling harrier, how in the world do you get the throttle blips in while going so fast between all the other movements? Is this a timing thing that can be practiced? (like "right rudder & throttle blip, down ele, left rudder & throttle blip", up ele)

Thanks again,

Ernie
Old 08-26-2006, 04:56 PM
  #110  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

THERE ARE NOW VIDEO CLIPS INCLUDED WITH ALL OF THE MANEUVER DESCRIPTIONS!!!

PLEASE GO BACK AND CHECK EM OUT!!!!!
Old 08-26-2006, 05:19 PM
  #111  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

Ernie, its really something that just takes a ridiculous amount of practice and feel. If you are doing the maneuver correctly the throttle is controlling the altitude of the planes path. If you are in a true harrier, the plane will noe glide but will immediately begin to sink if you get out of the throttle. The trick is to get a feel for what the plane is doing so that you can put the plane where you want it. One of the hardest things in an already incredibly challengine maneuver to perfect is getting a controlled sink. I like to get the plane coming straight down the runway and then pulse the throttle so that it sinks, and I catch it, sinks a little more and I catch it,,, until it isjust a few feet off the ground rolling directly in front of me as close as I dare to bring it in.. I dont really think about it while I am flying but I would say that I am bumping the throttle either when the plane is inverted or upright. But its happening so fast that its really hard to say exactly. You just have to feel it.

There are no shortcuts for learning the rolling harrier. I sat in front of the TV for WEEKS just trying to get the Roll right and hold... Left Rudder, Down Elevator, Right Rudder, Up Elevator... over and over and over...
Its tough, but MAN it feels great when you get it mastered. WELL worth the effort to learn. It will take all of your skills to a new level if you can figure it out. The rudder mystery will no longer be a mystery. Looks really cool too!![8D]
Old 08-26-2006, 05:55 PM
  #112  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

the rolling harrier is the move i want to do, i can do harrier circles i guess you call em, and i can adjust throttle and bring them down low for a pass, i found the more throttle, the less ele, and visa versa, inverted are easier, less wing rock, i have been trying to start one way, inverted say, go for a bit, then flip it over to upright harrier for a bit, then back, and so on, just cant continue the move, i need to stay one way or the other for a bit...i am trying though, i heard maybe adjusting the aileron so you can hold it all the way and not have it roll too fast, thats one less adjustment to make i guess, ever try that mike?
Old 08-26-2006, 05:58 PM
  #113  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

>>> There are no shortcuts for learning the rolling harrier. I sat in front of the TV for WEEKS just trying to get the Roll right and hold... Left Rudder, Down Elevator, Right Rudder, Up Elevator... over and over and over... >>>

I notice that you are thinking in terms of "knife edge to knife edge" (first input is rudder) instead of upright to inverted where the first input might be up ele.

Thanks,

Ernie

Old 08-26-2006, 06:09 PM
  #114  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

Mike,

If I remember correctly, I think you can have AFPD display the radio. This might be helpful for the aspiring 3D pilot so that they can see the stick positions.

Again, I may be wrong on getting the radio to display though.

Once again you have come through with the videos, very well done.
Old 08-26-2006, 06:09 PM
  #115  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers


ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

>>> There are no shortcuts for learning the rolling harrier. I sat in front of the TV for WEEKS just trying to get the Roll right and hold... Left Rudder, Down Elevator, Right Rudder, Up Elevator... over and over and over... >>>

I notice that you are thinking in terms of "knife edge to knife edge" (first input is rudder) instead of upright to inverted where the first input might be up ele.

Thanks,

Ernie


Oh definitely. If you are starting a rolling harrier from a harrier (upright or inverted) then the 1st input as you initiate the roll will be rudder. I have found that its better to start with the nose up at a high angle and wait until the plane is right on knife edge to input the rudder initially. If you input rudder too early you are going to snap somewhat. You want to transition from one input to the other with VERY little overlap. There is a little but its not much. This is critical, especially when you get a big plane down low. You cannot afford to make mistakes. Once you get the thing rolling there is nothing to it. But the entry needs to be right or you are going to flounder around a lot on the 1st rotation.

It wont be long and you will look back and wonder why it was so hard to figure out. Once you get it its easy to do,,,, ONCE you get it.
Old 08-26-2006, 06:11 PM
  #116  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

Bill,
I have not figured that out yet. You are right I am going to be MAD that I did not find it before I did all that work!!!![:@]

It took me about 4 hours to put those clips together!! UGH!!

If its there I will go back and redo them one at a time. Might take a couple of days.

Also, The video quality is "OK" but not great I realize, but its a start. If I figure out a way to capture in a higher resolution I will again replace all of the clips.

Mike
Old 08-26-2006, 06:21 PM
  #117  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers


ORIGINAL: MikeEast

Bill,
I have not figured that out yet. You are right I am going to be MAD that I did not find it before I did all that work!!!![:@]

It took me about 4 hours to put those clips together!! UGH!!

If its there I will go back and redo them one at a time. Might take a couple of days.

Also, The video quality is "OK" but not great I realize, but its a start. If I figure out a way to capture in a higher resolution I will again replace all of the clips.

Mike

Again, I could be wrong. I replced my PC recently and have not re-installed AFPD yet so. It's really no big deal but I just thought it would be a little easier on those, like me, who are using yours and everyone elses tips....
Old 08-26-2006, 08:30 PM
  #118  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers


ORIGINAL: bubbagates


ORIGINAL: MikeEast

Bill,
I have not figured that out yet. You are right I am going to be MAD that I did not find it before I did all that work!!!![:@]

It took me about 4 hours to put those clips together!! UGH!!

If its there I will go back and redo them one at a time. Might take a couple of days.

Also, The video quality is "OK" but not great I realize, but its a start. If I figure out a way to capture in a higher resolution I will again replace all of the clips.

Mike



Again, I could be wrong. I replced my PC recently and have not re-installed AFPD yet so. It's really no big deal but I just thought it would be a little easier on those, like me, who are using yours and everyone elses tips....
I took another look and even read the manual and it is not there. I am going to see if there is a downloadable upgrade function that will allow it. I know that G3 has that feature.
Old 08-27-2006, 07:25 AM
  #119  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

Hey, thanks for the video clips. I went back and viewed all of them and they are going to help me a lot toward leaning 3D. I love this thread.

Old 08-29-2006, 01:05 AM
  #120  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

It's great to see that this thread has become a "sticky". Wonderful news.

I'd like to add something about the Rolling Harrier that's pretty useful and goes a few steps beyond the simulator. Get a 3D Foamy and beat it up in real Rolling Harrier flying practice!! No, it's not the same as that larger gasser or glow plane that you fly but the moves are the same. Plus you develop a better feel of "depth" and altitude than you do with a sim. When it hits the ground, and it will, a little foam safe CA and you're back in the air practicing again in a few minutes

It doesn't have to be expensive or flamboyant. A simple Tribute or Fancy Foam whatever can get you going the right direction with the right moves. Practice for a week or two a little every day with a foamy and then go out to the field and you won't believe how much better your timing will be with your regular plane. I promise!
Old 08-29-2006, 04:51 AM
  #121  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

You are SO right! I learned to rolling harrier with a fancy foam biplane and on the sim! I tore up about 10 of them learning to hover and do the RH. Nice thing is, they cost about $400 to build RTF initially. But if you destroy the plane its a $35 investment to replace the entire airframe and you can be back in the air in just a few hours of re assemble. And that is only after you have reglued the arframe back together so many times with odorless CA or Gorilla Glue that it is too heavy to fly correctly anymore. I actually had a buddy that called his foamy "gluey"!!
Old 08-29-2006, 08:42 PM
  #122  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

I can do a loop, and I can do a roll. I can do knife edge, and a snap. Now thanks to reading this thread, and with alot of practice I'll be doing more tricks soon.

Thanks Bob
Old 08-29-2006, 08:48 PM
  #123  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

Silversurfer, Sounds like a plan. I think I'll get a foamy for practice, sure would hate to plant my 1/4 scale.

Bob
Old 08-30-2006, 10:22 PM
  #124  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

AFPD does not have the option where you can show the radio in the game.
Old 08-31-2006, 01:14 AM
  #125  
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Default RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

This is a great thread. It seems like alot of you are flying bigger planes and I hear they are better for 3D. I hope I can afford an 80in. 50cc plane soon. However, I've managed to learn to hover, harrier, and TR with a 40 size GP Dazzler. It's not pretty, but it's what I have.
My tip for the new hoverer is to just fly straight up with the canopy to you. Then do it slower. Then slower. When it's starts to get hard to keep it straight, your getting down to stall speed and starting to hover. You'll notice you have to start useing right aileron at this point, and alot of rudder. Then it's just practice, practice, practice. Before long you'll stop gaining altitude. Then you get brave and low, then you repair you're plane and do it some more. At least thats the way I did it.

P.S. I enlarged the rudder on my Dazzler, that really helped it alot, but the twist is much easyer to hover, the u-can-do is even easyer, and the flip 3D is down right easy.(after learning on the Dazzler)
I've got an OMP Kat V2 to tryout this weekend so maby i can start to learn rolling harriers.

Later,
Dave

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