Luke 3D

Biggles,
I do not want to start an argument. I am tired of seeing threads develop into a little childish squabble.But i have to explain the facts.If you look on the Lorenz website they do a high Society ARF that is identical to the one that probuild sell.
But suprise ,suprise their price when translated into pounds is £395.Bit different to probuild's price isn't it? I wonder how that could be?
Sounds like a big rip off to me.
The maximum cost of shipping from germany is £100 so you can order one yourself and save £300 plus over the probuild price. Therefore Is probuild's price still good value?(eerrrrrr i think not!)
Relating to the colour scheme design, i have been told that the high society is covered in a plain pro film finish. Your argument just does not add up.
Sorry!

robert

Hi Biggles,
I got my plane, and yep, I am purely delighted with it. The amount of times I said 'fantastic' to Phil at the (small) workshop kind of gave it away. I would obviously like to have the latest and greatest, but, I have one of the best built Funtanas out there, so I am content.

Hi luke,
Just for the record, I don't want to start a little fight either. When I was over at probuild, I got a chance to see a high society up close. It was far from a plain covering job, but was an excellent paint job, all round. (I think the wings and stabs are too?) The fuselage was also excellent, very light, and really excellent moulding. Top pattern people are even telling me that they are done even better than ZN jobbies.
If you were to get a ZN Majestic, the kit would be alot of $$$, then to get it built ARF like the high society, I am sure you are looking at about £2000, (plus kit price!). That does not include any of the delivey costs, (it cost over 350 Euro to bring the funtana home). As you can see, a high society is not so expensive now. To sell a high society ARTF at £395, would be a little silly. To mould a fuselage and wings, build it, and paint it, would take silly amounts of work. Look at the Enigma thread in the pattern section. That is a kit. Look at how many straight days Mark has put into those kits, and he is still miles away. Put how much you want to get payed for that amount of work, and it has to be over £395.
I know that I spread the probuild bible around here alot, and people might disagree with me. The fact is that the people at Probuild (i.e. Phil and Pete in particular) have done so much for me. They have really shown interest in getting me up and flying, and they took care of making it as economic for me as possible.

ANyway, I gotta wipe off the drool, and go look at some Funtana.

Biggles-RCU

Hi Luke,
Sure, and I am not looking to start an argument over this either. The ARF price + Spats + VAT+ delivery = Probuild price. Luke to be honest, I have paid some £1300 for a very nice Caprise, which was not even to a finished sprayed standard. I am now regretting this, having seen High Society. I have seen the High Society for real, and I must admit to thinking it to being extremly good. If you look at a PL, ZN design, I think it would be good value. I can confirm that Probuild does make very little money out of it. If you looked at PL's ZN's models you will find them finished I guess £2000,00 + . I personally have a good carrer, working for a large company that is totally unrelated to Probuild. I could never work full time in Aeromodelling, because there simply isn't the money in it= that's your answer!!

Biggles

Luke 3D

Sorry guys,
If you guys want to reply to this then be my guest but i am not going to speak about the high society any longer(apart from once more) because this is a thread about the Funtana Pro.
You have not seemed to have seen my point. I was comparing probuild's price to Lorenz's price.
I agree that compared to a prebuilt majestic probuild's price for a High Society is good value BUT Lorenz sell the exactly the same High Society ARF built to exactly the same quality, a hell of a lot cheaper, and they still make money out of it.This is proof that probuild have increased the price to get a fatter profit rather than more sold, hereby consigning another great model to the pile of' I can't afford those' models. I agree that the model is made to impeccable standards but that does not excuse the high price.
Has probuild considered lowering the price?
The High Society would then take the UK by storm.
It would sell a lot more because the cost would be within the price bracket of a lot more people.
Am i making sense.Lower the price and you get more sales which equals more profit in the long run.
Oh, robert i guess from your comment that 'to sell a High Society Arf for £395 is silly'.
I suppose that Lorenz is silly then!

Biggles-RCU

Hi Luke,
To be honest I am pretty cheesed off at having to repeat myself anyway. The Probuild price - has in addtion to the basic ARF kit by lorenz. Spats & U/C, Wheels, Delivery and inlcudes VAT . Also the bulkhead is installed, I wish I could say a fatter profit, but when VAT is added, Luke honestly there is'nt one!
We are all dedicated people, who do this for a passion, almost all of us have a good carrear. This is done in our spare time, if a fatter profit was the case, we would all be working full time!!

The trouble when you look at these types of Aeroplanes (Funtanna Pro Included) is that it doesn't stop with the model, you have to have some decent equipment to help minimise any risk from the model from crashing. A good motor is adviseable to power this model. So this all has to be brought into consderation when looking at these models. Is the overall cost.

Funtann Pro - We will be importing these, and are waiting for Exclusiv Modelbau to confirm when they will be ready. Price is expected to be a minimal increase over the standard kit.


All the best

Biggles

Biggles-RCU

Luke,
My next question is if you think that the High Society is expensive. Then what about the Radio gear required for these type of models. I mean Hitec gear and an MDS 40 is hardly the type of set up that you would want in a Funtanna Pro. As stated before the ARF kit that you see on Lorenz's website is minus U/C, Spats, VAT and delivery. Add all this together and guess what, you are at Probuild's price (Or very near!) and adddition we install the bulkheard precisely for you. Now I know for a fact that this has to be right for the thrustline to be correct. I am not into bickering but regardless of cost. If something is out of reach than it is not a Rip off. Price is equal to quality, We have met Mr Lorenz personally and get on with him very well. I will not go into that because we are a company. I feel that should you wish to purchase a High Society from Mr Lorenz, spend time going to Germany, adding all the extras to make things the same as a Probuild kit, then you are more then welcome. But I am confident enough to say that the price is extremley unlikely to better the Model that we supply.


All the best

Biggles

Luke 3D

Sorry Guys about this,I did not want this to happen. I think that a thread on such a great plane as the funtana Pro deserves not to be high jacked by another stupid little argument.But i am very sorry. I can't help it. Biggles has sucked me in again to another argument about replying about the cost of Pro build's High Society.Hell, he may be right about this. I will do my best to make my reply(and opinion) good enough so that it will be my last one.I have put on some soothing music to calm my temper(!)Here goes..........
I agree with you biggles about the radio gear- it is expensive but you need to compare apples with apples- i was comparing the aircraft kits themselves.Leave radio gear e.t.c out of this. I would like to see spats and undercarriage and a bulkhead that would make a kit nearly twice the price. OK, i will do you a deal. If i come to probuild and ask for a highsociety without spats, undercarriage, and a fitted bulkhead, would you sell it to me at Lorenz's price of £400 (i swear i just heard a booming NOOOOOO LUKE OF COURSE NOT!!! coming from the skies above me just then!)Just how easy is it to install a precise bulkhead? I could do it with my eyes closed with one hand- literally! I am actually sad enough to have just tried and succeeded at this during repairing my innovation pro for any doubters.2 1/2 degrees exactly. I agree with you that quality = price BUT
YOU HAVE STILL NOT SEEN THE POINT. Lorenz's high Society- the same plane- is quality without the price. I always try not to lose my temper over such a trivial matter but i feel strongly about this . I never said that if something is out of reach it is a rip off.I was just comparing the prices of two planes- one from probuild and one from Lorenz. I looked on the Lorenz website- the high society does infact come with undercarriage by the way .If you can justify almost doubling the cost just for some posh Spats and a 'precison fitted bulkhead'(that any decent builder can do in less than an hour) then you win.They must be made of gold(or platinum because its lighter I think)
After looking on the Probuild website, i noticed that it said that probuild goes to collect all models from dealers instead of having them posted- therefore there is no postage fee- something that you say your price includes!(although a small increase in cost would be excuseable for the journey taken by probuild).

Luke

Biggles-RCU

Luke,
To be honest I am in no mood for arguing, this is getting to long in the tooth anyway. Think what you think, but reality beats fiction by far. I have mentioned that I have a good career, I work long hours and I give away my spare time to get put down by a person who seems to think that we make money out of what we do.



If our prices are too high - please go and buy from another company, I have mentioned to my friends to be aware of you for the way you have continued to slate the company!

Please don't come to Probuild for Service!

Regards

Biggles

robert

Funny, you complain about there price, yet when it comes to the added hassle of BUYING YOUR Funtana you have no problem forgeting about how Probuild are only out there to screw you out of money. But hold on,
'Lets hope that biggles does not recognise me and charge me double! LOL '

This really is pathetic....

Anyway, 747drvr, when will you start building? I am very interested into how it goes together.

747drvr

My Feedback: (5)

Oh , We're talking about the Funtana again ? I was just visiting the LHS owner who speaks German to get a final overview on the instructions and should start in a few days.

One thing I was surprised about was that the stabilizer CF tubes ,that allow it to be removable, are only 4mm. I didn't immediately see them because the were inside the 6mm outer. I had originally thought that the 6mm was used as the joiner. I'm a little leary about this but if wire tailbracing is used it shouldn't be a problem. I'm planning on using the 6mm as the joiner with no outer because the holes in the fuse and the stab ribs are doubled with 1/32" ply. I may extend the joiner out one more rib and dispense with the tail bracing. I'll use a smal set screw at the end of the tube to hold the stabs on. A little abstract without seeing the parts and the kit but I'll try to post pictures as I go .

Biggles-RCU

Hi there Folks,
Thanks for putting some info up, we are looking for some nice pictures of the Funtanna Pro for the website. so anyone has got some nice ones could you let me know!

Robert - the pain for me is that I wrote out most of the English Funtanna Manual ( A lot of work) I have got to do the new one for the Pro Version. (even more!)

To be honest - I like both, I quite like the flat tail anyway, I have yet to see a nice photo (side view) of the Pro version!

We are hoping to get them into the UK market fairly shortly!

Biggles

Luke 3D

Sorry Biggles,
I have calmed down now, and have re read what i have said- i did not mean all of it.
I did not mean to cause either you or pro build offence.
I had no idea you would take me that seriously. I have been very tired and stressed these past months and because of this have had a foul temper that is surfacing in awkward and argumentative moments.
Biggles,
I was not slating probuild as a whole- i was complaining about the price of one of their planes.My argument developed.....and got out of hand. The only reason that it sounds bad is because i lost my temper. I suppose i just got a bit carried away. I suppose its wrong to express your true opinion in this forum whether it is wrong or not. I think that probuild is a great dealer- they have a well thought out website, they deal in a very diverse range of excellent aircraft and i have heard nothing but praise for them. I just thought that it was a shame that the price of their High Society was so high- especially considering that they were the only dealers of these kits here(apart from petrol power). I was expressing my thoughts as best i could about this and then i lost it.It seems to some people( ie robert and you) that i was complaining about their prices as a whole, and that i was labbelling them as a fat profit making machine. Not so. The only times when I even came close was when i lost my temper. I was only talking about the High Society. The Funtana, unlike the High Society in my opinion, is really good value for money, and that is why i am going for it. My gripes and moans spurred on by awnswers from Biggles were not meant to discredit probuild- just their price of ONE OF THEIR PLANES- simply because i know that you can get it a lot cheaper elsewhere. Sorry Biggles you are probably right to the greater extent- it is just very hard for me to believe that a plane can double in price because of some spats and postage. It seems i have yet again overreacted, lost my temper, and landed myself in it. Because of this , you have lost a willing and definite customer.I will still get a Funtana Pro though by way of a sophisticated plan which i will not reveal. The motto of the story for me is do not argue. Lesson learned. Sorry For any offence caused by my temper.
Happy flying Guys!

Biggles-RCU

Luke,
Don't worry, sure I am wrong in some cases too. But mate, we have no intetnions of ripping anyone off. I mean by all means we are quite happy to sell you a Funtanna, but the High Society is priced in a very strange way and all of what you see on the website is a bare minimum. We put one together on Friday, and believe me it was lovely. The tail has a better look to it than the Majestic. I could not stop looking at it. The quality is superb!
I want one, we have one for us which will be yellow and red, which will be our demo model. So We can evaluate it's performance.

It's unlikely that we will be at Sandown, but we are hoping to be at Romily. I shall be going to Sandown (CPLR's flying is too good to miss!) We are slow to reply as we are really busy, but never worry, we will get back to you as soon as we can.

Latest news - Modelcompositi mount - lighter than a Hyde mount. Sebastiano uses these (Funtanna designer - he, he).

Luke - We are here for everyone, You too!!!

Regards



Biggles

Luke 3D

Thanks Biggles,
I am glad that i have not made an enemy!

robert

Sniff,.......I love a happy ending....sniff....

BBriBro

My Feedback: (2)

Did the wing fail? or did it pull out of the fuse, allowing it to rotate on the tube? I have read about this, and it happened to me, A MAJOR incidence problem on the one side, I was able to land it, but redesigned the wing mounting method after that.

dalita

My Feedback: (82)

It broke at the end of the wing tube. It looks like the last couple of ribs need to be reinforced with plywood. Dale

PS: Desert Aircraft still doesn't have them in.

Luke 3D

I am trying to get one from pro build. Finally saved up enough money!I am waiting for a reply from Phil. He says that he will get back to me ASAP after speaking to EMHW's boss. Will let you guys know when (or if) probuild has them!
Can't wait!Finally im going to have a decent plane for once!
Happy flying
Luke

Didier

Hello everybody.
I am also building a Funtana Pro.
I am going to put a Saito 182TD (twin) inside with a18x6 prop.
I have this engine new in box for years.
I hope it have enough power to hover/T.R. otherwise I will try a different engine.
Harold Weiershausen mentioned in the drawing to put Hs 5245 MG (61 Oz) servo's for the elevator.
Is this strong enough?

747drvr

My Feedback: (5)

I think the servo choice is adequate. The airplane isn't designed for high speed flight and the elevators have aerodynamic counter balances. I'm thinking of using one 120 oz servo myself.

gwright

mine are a bit "overkill" , but I have 9151 digitals , one per elevator half (130 oz/in per side if I remember the specs correctly). I'm flying a slightly larger plane now on 70oz/in servos, but it's flight speed envelope is even slower than the funtana's (about 2.5 lbs lighter, and almost 1600 square inches of wing, 24X12 spinning 4K on front, but normally at 1/4 throttle or below). As Marc mentions,..speed has to be taken into consideration, and the slower they fly the lighter the servo you can use. I've got MANY flights on my funtana now, and i think 60~70 oz/in servos would be fine, unless you prop it for ridiculous speed, which isn't the intent of the design anyway

Didier

I thought about the Hitec HS-5925MG (103 oz/0.1s) or the HS-9545 (153 oz/0.16s)all around.
I prefer the HS-5925MG because of the speed but is it strong enought for the rudder and the BIG ailerons????

747drvr

My Feedback: (5)

I'm pretty sure 100 oz is enough. I'm going to use JR 4721's. Something like 120 oz at 4.8v. Use ALL the servo throw and set up the linkages for max mechanical advantage. The worst that can happen is that you'll get a bit of blow back at the highest aircraft speeds if the servo isn't strong enough. Then again, the Funtana isn't designed as a speed machine either and full control deflections should be at slower airspeeds.

Luke 3D

HI guys, i don't understand all this ounces milarkey so can i ask this question;
All these ounce numbers translate into very little torque in terms of kgs. 130 oz = 8.125 lbs = 3.4 kg- barely more than a standard servo. Surely this is far too weak!
I found some multiplex digital coreless servos at sandown(can't remember the name) with 8kgs(281oz) of torque with speed of 0.12 secs for 40 degrees rotation. All in the size of a standard servo!The best thing is the price. £30 for one of these! the cheapest around at this spec. Is 8kgs enough for the ailerons?How about the rudder?
Is it worth modifiying the elevator and rudder to a bit bigger size?
Got my moki 180 2 days ago but trying to get a funtana pro from phil williams is like squeezing blood from a stone. He must be one busy guy.
Happy flying
Luke

BBriBro

My Feedback: (2)

100 oz is more than double the torque of a "standard" servo, they are typically 40-50 oz .