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U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Old 07-27-2006, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

If I had to do it all over again, yeah, I'd probably due heavy duty hardware if for no other reason than it makes me feel better....

But, with a carefully done setup the stock hardware can last. I've seriously been beating the snot out of my .46 w/ a Saito .91 the past few months on all stock hardware and it's held up incredibly well. I'm not gentle with it at all in the air and frankly, I'm suprised I have brought it home on several occasions in a hefty bag.

It's not that I'm that good of a pilot (quite the opposite really), but the fact that I'm not that it's held up to my abuse so well. I would recommend my setup to anyone... especially w/ the Saito .91. A great engine and I'll certainly be buying larger ones as I progress in the hobby.

- Wayne
Old 07-27-2006, 10:00 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Blisster, Why don't you send me a PM with your address and I'll send you a filter.

Ron, The Bru Line filter measures approx. .346 in the opening but it looks like it would stretch a bit. Rob
Old 07-27-2006, 11:56 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Blisste...

I run my 82 about 1 1/2 turns out. I'm at 4800' elevation. When it's hot I go to 1 1/4 turns out. You'll probably end up somewhere about 1 3/4 to 2 turns out. The bottom end needs leaned quit a bit to. I just keep turning it in about 1/4 turn at a time until it starts to transition very well. I didn't get the bottom leaned enough, quick enough on my little Mayhem. Engine bogged when I was in a waterfall. Quit when I was vertical about 20' up. Slid straight down before I could get it flying again and "boom". That was it. I should have leaned it just a bit more before that flight...or not do waterfalls that close to the ground????no I should have leaned it more.

Anyways...you've already run more fuel through yours than I do mine before I fly them. I only run about 40 minutes than run it in the airplane for 6-8 flight before I really start flying hard but I don't worry too much about long break ins. I just get them so they will idle reliable and then go fly. Get that thing in the airplane and go fly. Hey, what's the worst that could happen?

Thanks
Barry
Old 07-28-2006, 01:23 AM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

ORIGINAL: Barry Cazier

...Hey, what's the worst that could happen?
Hmmmmm... let me think.... thanks Barry! I'll remember that!

I leaned it out a bit this eve. At about 1.5 turns it started to run faster and it actually warmed up! It missed a lot less and I finally got that smell I love, that smell of burning fuel and oil. It idled pretty good, but I'll admit, it was a little warmer than I expected and it actually stopped fairly quickly with fuel still in it. I freaked out a bit and let it cool and then riched it up a bit and finished the run. I went back to 2.5 turns for a bit and it ran as usual and then I went to 2 turns. It still missed a little but it was obviously cooler acting and ran out the tank. I let it cool again, refueled and let it run at 2 turns for 1/2 tank and then leaned it to 1 3/4 turns and it seemed just fine so I let it run out till empty. It seemed fine although warmer than I was used to, I fueled it up again and ran it at the same setting, finished the tank, and then I pulled the plug and placed a few drops of Hobbico "After Run" oil and turned it through a few dozen turns before replacing the plug and quitting for the eve. I'm sure I was far from flaming the the thing but still, I was a bit nervous about the hotter run. My running times have increased quite a bit as well. This thing has some pulling power! I can only imagine what it will do with this light plane! It's going to pull it around like a feather! I see some fun flying in my near future!

Bliss
Old 07-28-2006, 02:33 AM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Blisster, on a four stroke engine it's much much much more important to put your after run oil in through the crankcase vent nipple rather than down the glow plug hole. When you put the oil in the crankcase vent you get the oil to the crank bearings, when going down the glow plug hole very little if any oil gets to the bottom end and to the bearings. After you get the oil in the case, hold the engine or plane so the crank or prop is facing down so the oil can run into the bearings.
Old 07-28-2006, 02:36 AM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Also forgot to ask what kind of RPMs your getting
Old 07-28-2006, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Blisster...

Right or wrong...I use 30% Cool Power fuel and never use after run oil. So far...knock on my head, I mean wood, I've never had a bearing problem with my Saito engines. Or my YS or OS either for that matter. Love the stuff.

Sounds like your engine is ready to fly but you won't let it out of the cage yet. Mount that engine and give us a flight report. We want to hear.

Thanks
Barry
Old 07-28-2006, 10:46 AM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Here's what a good friend of mine uses for after run lube/fluid. [link=http://www.crcindustries.com/marine/content/prod_detail.aspx?PN=06068&S=N]engine store[/link] It comes with a spray tube just like wd 40 or other sprays and he's added a section of aluminum tubing over the tube that comes with the can so that it fits inside the fuel tubing on the engine vent connection. He just sprays it in after running for the day and the pressure from the can puts a good amount into the engine then he puts a screw or bolt into the vent line to keep the stuff in the engine case. It works slick. I have to go to a marine store to get some for my engines.
Old 07-28-2006, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Blisster
You didn't give the prop size used and what RPMs you are getting. If you don't have a tach ($20) be careful.
Here is Bill Robison'suggested beak-in procedure for Saitos. (Check out the Saito forum.)

"Break in of a fresh engine
A piston ring is seated in the first few seconds of engine running after its installation. This holds from the smallest to the largest of ringed engines, and is dependent on cylinder pressure to force the ring against the bore. Therefore, the initial running should be done at a high power setting.

My way is to allow the engine a few seconds to come up in temperature, then I immediately peak the mixture at full throttle, then right back to idle. For the first few minutes of running the engine goes to full throttle for about five seconds, then back to a rich idle for twenty. This gives me the high cylinder pressure to seat the ring while at full, and then at idle more oil is spread on the working parts.

After these first few minutes I'll go back to full and get about 800 rpm rich drop, then lean the idle a bit but not all the way, and put the engine in a plane. Over the next hour or two I'll slowly lean the idle, and bring the HS closer to peak. After a couple hours total time the engine is all ready for extended high power, and I've been able to fly the fuel through the engine instead of oiling the grass at my house. Or not oiling the grass as much as many do."

Keep in mind that the settings are different for every engine. When breaking in a engine, keep it a 4 to 5 hundred RPMs below max for the first couple gallons and a couple hundred below that always. You should not be above 9000 till after break-in and 9500 max after that. Just my opinion.

Doug

P.S. Allow 4 or 5 seconds for engine to catch up when adjusting High speed needle. The low you can start leaning out after a couple tanks. Sorry for long post.
Old 07-28-2006, 10:56 AM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Forgive my ignorance but what does a Velocity Stack do? This discussion on the Saito 82 is interesting since that is the engine I ultimately want to put in my new UCD. Also, I plan on using an in-cowl Pitts style muffler, any recommendations for this modfel of engine?

Thanks,

Mark
Old 07-28-2006, 11:15 AM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Hello All! Does anyone have a traced out wing rib profile that they can e-mail me? UCD had a fight with a tree and lost. My fault. Busted fusealage into and busted the two center ribs. Would be easier to fix if I had the rib shape upfront.

ForeverHero
The velocity stack helps keep the fuel spray from carb in the engine instead of in cowl area.
get an intake stack (SAI50GK93) and the Bru-Line fine mesh air filter (BRU202) from Horizon. I don't think they improve power, but they will allow a little leaner low-end needle and improved fuel economy.

Doug
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Old 07-28-2006, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

ORIGINAL: dougwill

Blisster
You didn't give the prop size used and what RPMs you are getting.
Thanks for your input dougwill! (And to everyone else too!!!) Prop size is 14 x 4 and the RPM's are virtually what is described in the article you forwarded. (also stated in my previous to last post, the long one) I kept the rev's to about 5k after first keeping at about 2 to 4k for 10 minutes (per the Saito book) then at full speed for a brief time (maybe 5 to 8 seconds) at 2 1/2 turns of needle. Then (since I had a servo hooked to my test rig) I would run it alternatively from 5k to 7k. I did this for about 6 tank fills. Then I ran the session I described earlier while leaning it back to 1 3/4 turns (the max rpm was around 9k for that session, and then only for about 20 seconds, otherwise 4 to 7k for about a minute each was the routine there as well) The oil content in the exhaust changed from dripping wet to merely smoky wet.

rtn9105, thanks, as for the after run oil, I thought about that as I was doing it, and you're right, I need to put it in the crankcase nipple. However, since it is mounted upright on the test stand, (a huge welding table with a test stand attached) I couldn't really do that without removing it and flipping it over. Plus, I have been doing these run-in sessions three times a day, so I don't think there is any shortage of lube, if I was to walk away from it for a a fews days or more, I will be sure to do just what you mentioned.

rcelement, I really like that idea of the Engine Store spray! I will have to find some here at our local marine shop. I hope they have it.

I am delighted with this engine! It is the only one I have ever had that I only need to flip with a stick or gloved hand. And it always starts on the first flip, even when the "kick" flips the prop backwards it still manages to flip back around and start! I thought I had some nice engines but this Saito 82 is the finest example I have ever owned. I am so glad that I decided to go with it, I would have never been this happy about the choice of power for my UCD than anything else. Now I understand why you guys with Saitos suggested it. Wish I had all of the Saitos! I especially like the twins, would love a Piper Cub with one in it for lazy flying!
Old 07-28-2006, 01:23 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Mark... The Velocity Stack will keep the engine firewall area a bit cleaner.. The Saito's gets
that area a bit oil/fuel soaked.. So the stack keeps it cleaner since it will force more of the
fuel to go where it was intended instead of some blowing out the top of the carb. as Saito's
do.. There's no power gain, but you could get a bit longer flt. times as you cen lean the engine
some because of more fuel reaching the clyinder.... Atleast the the info I got on it It does
work in my case..

Bliss... I use A.O. but only if I will not be flying for a week or longer... Since I have a long run
on my tube on the "Do"... After running the engine dry(always) on the table, and removing the
wing.. I add the oil through the carb. and turn the prop.. I add about eight drops.. turn the prop
over a few times I also move around the wing-less fuse to help spread the oil.. Then I add 4 more
drops and spin the prop... IMO... A. O. can't hurt and can only help when using the correct A.O.
Old 07-28-2006, 03:24 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

All this talk has got me going. I'm gonna go get the 46 and go fly.

See ya.

Thanks
Barry
Old 07-28-2006, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

FYI, word from Horizon is that the velocity stacks will be back in stock in mid August.
Old 07-28-2006, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

i heard 10 days 2 days ago
Old 07-28-2006, 05:33 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

I got up early this morning, but besides the normal Hot Temps, it was windy[:@]
Trying for the weekend now... All is ready to go.....

I did the same last time out... It was windy but took the "Do" up anyway, it was
shaky, nothing low but it was still fun...(Talk about thermals/air pockets) pulled
into a hover above 15-20' it held it good, but WoW talk about lateral movement...
Started here and ended up WWaaaay over there... It harrier landed great,
held it in the wind, and walked to get it before killing the engine, No down wind
taxiing on this day...
Old 07-28-2006, 05:35 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Blisster, i did answer your question in the huge post right after you posted it on the 25th

here it is, post 4941.....

Blisster, my only advice on the saito is check the valve clearance before fireing up because there have been a very few that have been a little off,(just in case)set to .002.
and to save you a little trouble with bearings..... run dry and use aro after every session and it will last a long time also check your valves often at first (first couple of hours running) then you can slack off if they seem to be ok then.

the saito will seem a little rough at first, dont panic, it wwill settle down after you get a couple hours on it and you get it leaned down, it will also get better fuel consumption as you get the low end down. after a gallon or so i usually just get it to idle then turn the low end down 1/4 turn at a time till it dies(give at least 10 seconds inbetween turns) after it dies then open it up 1/2 turn and your gonna be close then and you can make final adjustment from there(small adjustments)

good luck!!
Old 07-28-2006, 05:46 PM
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o Bliss, you wanted the high speed setting, my mistake, the high end is the easy one, just get the bottom set and set the top, to do this you just peak it out by opening it wide open and turn the screw till it gets peak rpm then lean it down 200-300 rpm, of course you will need a tack to do it right, sorry for the misunderstanding, i have a house fullo right now with my bro and sisinlaw and his mom living with us till there house goes thru, i am going nutsssssssssss, but without you guys id probably be k....... some one by now,,,,,, thanks guys!!!![&:]
Old 07-28-2006, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Gary, you really got me straight on the issue now, THANKS! Even though I read the first post when you submitted it, it all came very clear when I just read it again with the post about the slow needle adjustment. I see exactly where you're going with this now. I guess combined with the experience I have had this week with it gave me the "hands-on" aspect to see from. I do wonder if after leaning it to peak, that I would want to richen it down 200-300 rpm rather than leaning it down? Not doubting your motor experience mind you, just your in-law experience making sure you haven't lost your mind! In the Saito book it says to richen it back, but I could see where you're transition might be sharper if it was leaned. I also bought some 30% Cool Power Heli fuel today, so am wondering how different it will run on it. I do like the idea of the extra oil, that might give me a bit of a buffer on the leaning issue.

I got my 1400mAh 6v flat-pack in today, that pretty well takes care of all my hardware needs for the UCD. I would dive into it this week-end but the Glue Dobbers (one of our largest local clubs) is holding a jumbo fly-in! Any guesses on where I'll be? I'll post some pics if I can. My son and I went by there today to see how things were going and there were already about 50 pilots there and about 35 jumbos on static display while one or two guys at any given time would fly their planes after assembling them after the trip in. I saw one, not exactly sure what it was, aerobatic for sure, kind of a Giles look to it from the nose, that was 70%!!!!! Yes, you read that correctly, I said it's 70% scale. no engine yet, I think they said it would take in excess of 700cc's to fly it. It had servos in it though, they were as big as a 1 lb. loaf of bread! If you were under 4', you could likely fly IN it!

Sorry, but the UCD must continue to wait for me to have the time to do the right quality of work. I hate to rush things and I am a dog-goned perfectionist to boot! Must of come from being raised by a picture framer and having done it for quite some time myself. You notice every little speck or unevenness

Think I'll go try out this 30%Cool Power! Barry, this run is for you! Thanks for the advice. The guy at my LHS said that a lot of peole are running it in their 4-strokes.

Vrooooden-Vroooden!
Bliss
Old 07-28-2006, 07:11 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Man this forum is driving me nuts! I just started assembling my UCD 46 a week ago. I've had it in the garage for 6 months. I decide to start assembly and now have no time to work on it. 2 months ago I had nothing but time!

I wish I had seen this forum before I bought my motor. I went with the OS FS-70 II Surpass and it seems it may be underpowered. A guy at the field mentioned the Saito but I had a Tower coupon and.... oh well... I am sure it will be a great flying plane. All I need is time.

I will be sure to beef up the LG and seal the hinges. Thanks for all the advice and stories. Hopefully I will be able to contribute soon.
Old 07-28-2006, 07:27 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Blisster, about leaning it down from peak you cant do that because it will die[X(] peak is where it is just before it dosent get enough fuel to run, max rpms just before it dies, so you must richen it down 200 rpm, this assures you that you are getting enough oil for protection, i believe i will have backup on this statement from the crew, dont burn it up please
Old 07-28-2006, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Gary, somehow I think we mean the same thing! I knew what you meant!

I ran it on the Cool Power 30% tonite and even my 11 year old said, "wow dad, that thing is running with more pep on that fuel" so that says a lot. He rarely misses ANYTHING. He is right too, it ran like a bat out of you-know-where! I did just what you said and it just seemed to fall into a groove. Absolutely no hesitation of any kind from idle to 8k. Pure power and I swear it even sounds better with the 30% fuel. More growl. That sure made a difference, I'll be running it on that fuel from now on, too bad it's $5 a gallon more than Omega 15% here. Checked the valves and all is fine. Done for tonight. I think I'll run a few more tanks through it after the jumbo fly in tomorrow and put it on the UCD. I might even be able to finish this thing by next week-end! Yee Haw! I am in shock!

Thanks Barry, My hat's off! You too Gary!
Old 07-28-2006, 10:54 PM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Alright Blisster, glad to hear ya like it and all is right, nothing like a good running 4stroke

Congrats[8D]
Old 07-29-2006, 01:53 AM
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Default RE: U-Can-Do 3d 46?

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....30%. It's addictive. It makes your engines run better. At least it does 4 strokes. Even if you don't use the power it makes idles better, transition better, and less dead sticks. I feel if makes for a bit better fuel economy as well. That way you don't feel bad about spending the extra money.

At my elevation the air is so thin you can't see it. The 30% really makes the 4 strokes "snap". I love the stuff and it's all I run. However, I used it in the OS 160 in my UCD and it didn't seem to like it. It detionated in the air something terrible. A think it runs better with 15%. But I haven't met a 4 stroke that didn't like it.

Now I'm gonna sit back and let somebody take it over 5000.

Thanks
Barry

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