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I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

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I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

Old 04-23-2009, 07:51 PM
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Cambo
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Default I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

I have a DL50cc equipped GP CAP232. It is an excellent bird. I have really mastered all of the "non" rolling 3d maneuvers. I have been practicing rolling circles in hopes that it will carry me into rolling harriers and such. However, i am completely stuck. I am most comfortable starting the rolling circle flying left-right of the field. I always roll to the right while turning left. I do a beautiful circle for about 180 degrees. However, the second the plan starts to come around for the second half i just can't maintain my altitude and always start falling toward the ground. ALWAYS. It doesn't matter what plane i try this on. Even on the sim i have this problem. It seems strange as i am very comfortable with all orientations (inverted heli flying teaches you that LOL). I just don't get it. Any ideas of what i might be doing wrong. Did any of you guys have this problem when learning rolling circles.
Old 04-23-2009, 08:14 PM
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MetallicaJunkie
 
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

i cant do them perfect my self, but i used to have the same problem, i also do them best rolling to the right turning to the left... its all timing/rhythm and lots pf practice....beli3ve it or not a simulator can help too, but nothing beats the real thing
Old 04-23-2009, 08:40 PM
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custards1
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

i sounds like you lose your timing. trying to find the rhythm is the hard part and you can do that. its just a matter of keeping it up. it maybe some visual thing thats throwing your timing out it hard to know without seeing
Old 04-23-2009, 08:45 PM
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

Maybe its just the GULP factor when that plane starts heading back towards you? The ugly thing I call an ATTEMPT at a rolling circle starts losing alttitude when I get behind on the elevator, if I pick the tempo up a bit it seems to hold on ...But believeme I am the utmost amateur 3D pilot so others might have a better idea.

Oh yeah I think I roll left turn left? I am not sure thats odd? normal? wrong?
Old 04-23-2009, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

What I did when I started rollers (aka rolling circles)
I started to do slow rolles continious from one end of the field to another(left to right)(say rolling right) Then I do slow rolles from the opposite end to the other (right to left) then rolling left. Once I got my slo rolls down, I then fly straight and level from left to right , when I get to the end of the field I start my 180 degree rolling circle. Once the 180 roller is complete I fly straight and level from right to left and then do the remaining 180 degree roller. When I get the hang of the roller at both ends I shorten the straight and level flight and bring bothe the 180 degree turnes closer together util I can do the complete 360 roller infront of me. Then start out rolling the oposit direction the same way.
Think of it as you gotta crawl, walk, run (thanks Dave S.) before you know it you will have your rollers down, then you can start doing rollers to the inside and then the outside. Its all in the rythum of yours fingers. First try rolling with right aleron and elevator stick leaving the rudder stick alone. Then when you get your timeing down start adding rudder.
If you have any questions check out Dave Scotts web sight and he explaines how to do rolling circles in his Advanced Manual.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:06 PM
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

You can also get onto Realflight and slow down the physics speed and do it in slow motion. This is definitely after you learn to do slow rolls. It's just a matter of progressing slowly and in steps. Step 1: Slow roll. Step 2: Rolling Circle in one direction. Step 3: Rolling Harrier in the same direction. Step 4: Rollers in other directions.

That's how I'd recommend doing it. I went from totally useless at rolling harriers to fairly good in just a couple months. Yeah, in real life my plane rolls a bit too fast and gets away from me....but that's only one of my planes and that's only the set-up. My AW Extra isn't set-up perfectly yet, but my Hyperion Extra came set-up well from the get-go (it just kinda worked).
Old 04-23-2009, 11:07 PM
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

Do KE circles,then some inverted circles,using the rudder to turn most of it,add some KE during the pattern.Build from there.Try 4 point rolls,slowly,in the same circle pattern.Keep this in front of you.Do not let it get over your head or behind you.Fly at half power if your plane handles well at that setting.
Old 04-23-2009, 11:53 PM
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

, ...i find it easier to use a flight mode that rolls at a decent pace not too fast or slow, and it allows me to crank full aileron, and only have to worry about rudder and elevator input, and it also makes the roll rate very constant
Old 04-25-2009, 11:52 AM
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Cambo
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

Interesting observation here, I was playing G3.5 and decided to give it a shot with the NON 3d Yak. I did the pattern with low rats/ full throttle. What this allowed me to do is focus completely on elevator and rudder inputs as the ailerons and throttle were maxed out. I was doing complete circles no problem.
Old 04-25-2009, 09:05 PM
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

biggest problem i see with others on rolling circles is they rely on timing the stick inputs, you need to learn the inputs based on visualization from the plane to your eye not timing of the sticks. in a 5 knot+ wind the ailerons become more and less responsive in different areas of the circle and you'll have to compensate for the increase/decrease in roll rate, or you'll start loosing altitude like a home sick man hole cover. once you master long slow rolls in both directions the rolling circles are a walk in the park, you won't even have to think about it.
Old 04-26-2009, 01:00 AM
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

my 13 year old son who i must say is a master of technique with r/c areobatic stuff can perform rolling circles with every aileron model we own, this includes Helis [ heicopters ] the reason for his great success is [ Flight Sims ] such as the GP 3.5 and now the Pheonix. he has been flying Gold Wings for 1 year and his first rolling circle was done with a Boomerang Trainer. bloody rat.
Old 04-28-2009, 05:30 PM
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles

You need to practice the stick movements. Hold your transmitter.

Give full right aileron.
Smoothly go to full Left Rudder.
Start Down Elevator as your returning Rudder to neutral.
Go to full Down Elevator.
Start Right Rudder when bringing Elevator back to neutral.
Go to full Right Rudder.
Start Up Elevator as your retuning Rudder to neutral.

Take your transmitter with you when watching TV and practice. I did this for an hour or so and then went back to the simulator. I had the basics down but was real sloppy. I prayed, "Lord please help me get this down" and within 5 minutes I had them smoothed out.

Here's a tip for you- slow down the roll rate so that you can keep full right aileron without it rolling super fast. Just keep slowing it down. My stick pattern above will have the plane rolling right, but doing a left handed pattern. The next day I easily went to doing them rolling left and doing a right hand pattern.
By the way, you'll hardly ever go to full deflection on the rudder or elevator while doing the rolling circle. Set the CG a little aft also and remember to cut back on the aileron throw! You want a nice, slow roll.
Old 05-07-2009, 12:47 AM
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Cambo
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles


ORIGINAL: KC36330

biggest problem i see with others on rolling circles is they rely on timing the stick inputs, you need to learn the inputs based on visualization from the plane to your eye not timing of the sticks.
BINGO, not sure why this helped but i really started concentrating on plane orientation as apposed to timing. It has been several days of 20 or so minutes on the sim and i really got it down pat. Just got to reproduce these results in the air.
Old 05-07-2009, 06:49 AM
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Default RE: I am pulling my hair out with rolling circles


ORIGINAL: Cambo


BINGO, not sure why this helped but ...................

it helped because you're actually flying the plane as opposed to banging the sticks in a set rhythm.

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