A question about rolling harriers
 

I can do these but they are not as good as I've seen others do them. I could use some tips (and much more practice). I already now how to flip the rudder and elevator back and forth to maintain altitude and attitude. I also adust the throttle.

Question: Should I hold full aileron deflection while adusting the rudder, elevator, and throttle or do I need to adjust the ailerons as well? Right now, I'm adjusting the ailerons because other wise my roll is too fast, but it's a handfull.

Thanks,
Joe

RE: A question about rolling harriers
 

I have been doing them on AFP and they are not smooth yet but I have read and learned that you have to hold full left/right alerion what ever your most comfortable with and move that stick up and down going through center without stopping.At the same time your left stick has to be around half trottle and it is moving left to right going through center without stopping.Seems there a knack to it.You have to imput the necessary controls moments before they happen.I read a members input on this subject and he goes into detail on it but doesn't really talk one through trottle management.Maybe he will re-submit on this tread. One more note on rolling too fast is to use your dual rates for alerion.I will find the tread and post later.

RE: A question about rolling harriers
 

don't use full deflection unless you have a REALLY slow rolling plane. I can do somewhat sloppy rolling circles on my ucando, and generally the slower they are the easier it is, to a point at least. too slow and you have to be much more accurate with the rudder, too fast and the elevator timing is hard.

RE: A question about rolling harriers
 

I find that I can do them good as long as I don't think about what I'm doing. There just isn't time for that.

Joe

RE: A question about rolling harriers
 

Question: Should I hold full aileron deflection while adusting the rudder, elevator, and throttle or do I need to adjust the ailerons as well? Right now, I'm adjusting the ailerons because other wise my roll is too fast, but it's a handfull.

you are on the right track, keep your rotation slower so your thumbs and servos can keep up, I stay on high rate aileron and am comfortable with about 1/2 aileron stick. I like to keep some aileron in reserve to escape disaster. For me it is actually easier to do rolling harriers into a steady wind. the wind will hold up your airplane, in effect slowing down the realism making it much easier (like reducing real time on sim) fly regular down wind untill you get better - this can be hairy. good luck

RE: A question about rolling harriers
 

I find that I can do them good as long as I don't think about what I'm doing. There just isn't time for that.

this is the most acurate description on how to do a rolling harrier - just like riding a bike, let your thumbs do the work in a set routine, don't think about it

RE: A question about rolling harriers
 

I'm starting to get the hang of these by practicing them on AFP. The advice about lowering your aileron throw is right on the money. There is enough to keep up with at the tail without having to deal with the aileron when first learning them. I found that reducing the aileron deflection to 35 degrees and bumping up the propwash to about 50 made a huge difference in AFP. Simply peg the aileron stick to one side and practice getting the rudder and elevator timing down.

RE: A question about rolling harriers
 

It is good to manage the ailerons and throttle at the same time. PM me if you want to see the couple of pages I wrote on rolling harriers.

3D-kid330

RE: A question about rolling harriers
 

I agree with Pizza about not really "concentrating" on them. Like he said there is not enough time. Again just like he said get into a routine, and you will, with practice, not even have to think about it.

Here are the pages I wrote for RCU.

Here's how I do it.

Practice makes perfect, really. (This is how I learned) Start out by getting comfortable with high alpha knife edge and inverted flight. I, also think that it helps to get comfortable with these maneuvers because the inputs are more natural. It is also a bonus if you have an idea of how to torque roll. Good practice before actually trying the maneuver is mastering knife edge circles. This will make orientation much easier in the rolling harrier.

To do this you do not need monster power but enough so that you can get out of trouble if needed, although it is always a bonus to have that extra power ready.

Now to the maneuver itself;

Remember, achieving a rolling circle only requires low rates; once you get proficient at the rolling circle (flat), you can flip to high rates and pop up to high alpha harrier rolling. It does not happen overnight.

Start out small and work your way up. Start into the wind slowly, a few mistakes high out in front of you pointing away, so that you have time to recover if you make a wrong input. Doing this into the wind will hold the plane up, making it generally easier when starting out. Start rolling slowly getting a feel for what the inputs required are. Then start focusing on the elevator inputs only to try and keep the airplane level. Keep practicing until you can roll a little faster. At first, use low rates, and once you get better, you can try a higher rate.

Now that you have that down, It's time to add in the rudder. Add a rudder input when the wings are vertical and an elevator input when the wings are level/horiziontal.

Get to know this sequence:

Please Note: this perspective is as if the plane were rolling to the right in a counter-clockwise circle.

To enter when upright, pull up elevator to get to high alpha flight.

When the wings are vertical with the canopy towards you, add left rudder.

When inverted, add down elevator as if flying inverted.

When the wings are vertical with the belly towards you, add right rudder.

I think it's very important to get to know this sequence. One thing you may want to try to get better at harrier rolling is point rolling. Roll from level to where the wings are vertical and hold it for a second. Now roll to inverted, and hold it there for a second. Again roll from inverted to where the wings are vertical and hold. Roll again and exit. For even more practice, you can try eight point rolls.

In between inputs, let off of one control gently, while at the same time, softly add on the other control so that you don't lose altitude.

If the roll slows down too much and you run out of aileron at the same time, add a short blast of power to blow more air over the surfaces.

Now that you have mastered this part, it is time to get the plane around the circle. As the plane's wings come to vertical, gently push the plane around the circle with the elevator. When they come to level, softly push with the rudder. In between points(when the wings are level, vertical, level, vertical) add more input to help to push it around the circle. It is important that you can push the plane around the circle with your inputs.

To roll to the other direction, reverse the control inputs. Rolling to the other direction will require a complete change of orientation, as you will need to practice to get used to both ways.


Now flip on the high rates and pop up to high alpha!

Some of the controls are reversed when you come towards yourself in the rolling harrier. That is why it is very important to get used to and know the sequence stated earlier.

A little practice and soon you will become proficient with this maneuver. Practice makes perfect. Once you get used to it, it's just like breathing. Hopefully this info helps a great deal, as it has for me.


Hopefully this helps everybody!

3D-kid330