RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Hi,
Does any one have pictures of the Vision´s new color scheme?

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Maudib/others
how happy overall are you with the plane? I guess I have very mixed feelings. I just cant seem to get the plane to groove good. I dunno if my balace is too aft, not aft enough? I am a good inch to inch and a quarter behind where chipper says to put it. I got some right thrust and some up thrust shims in motor. seems to pull uplines straight. flies inverted good with just slight riding of the stick. the snaps are slow, it does not hover as well as I would like, and compared to the EF yak, it just feels like a pig that cant get outta its own way.
It does feel light. I give it that. knife edge, ah, not real impressed. I dunno, I guess my love was lost once I flew the Yak. But man, I would like to get this thing dialed in, if possible. I know at the Toledo show I had 2 people tell me this plane sucked compared to the double vision, and I am starting to wonder if they were not right?

Any thoughts, tips?!

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Fastlif,

I hear what your saying re hovering and knife edge. Although I think my knife edge is partly due to me needing even more rudder servo power, i think (im on 8511). I fly with rudder rates off the whole time apart from snaps and it now at least feels like ive got enough for normal flying.

Hovering can be quite tricky I admit, although I need more right thrust as it always falls out left in the hang which makes it a bit more difficult.

My C of G is 4 inches beghind the wing tip. Personally I wouldn't want it any further back than this. Already when you do a 45 degree inverted climb it is going more vertical (a rearward C of G causes this). And landing you sometimes have to feed in down to stop the tail sinking.

For freestyling I would say 4 inch back is the max you want to go. If it's pure 3D then the further back the better.

Overall I really like it. Good freestyle model as you can just cane it for ten mins and know the model is going to take everything you throw at it and it does most things pretty good I would say. Low down rolling circles on full bore just look/sound awesome as well :)

Angus

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

I only want it for 3D, I may play this weekend with some weight, just tape it on aft first, then the nose, give me a feel if its better one way or the other before I change battery locations and such.

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Hi Guys,

Been watching this thread for some time. Interesting how some of you find one fault with this kit and others don't. I have a few questions and interested in your views.

Clearly everyone I have spoken too hates the covering "Chinakote".

More than one has found the aileron cuts are very poor standard of craftmanship, have you checked yours. The only way is to remove the covering!

Has anyone checked the motor is still tight on the firewall? Bets are on, you can tighten it up (may answer some of the side thrust concerns if it's moving?)

Is the firewall material crushing? You need to check on the inside of the firewall as well as the front. I wonder how many didn't strengthen the rear the same as the front, as it will draw the nuts in, just as much as push the standoffs in.

There are reports that the stab will start to flap due to stress wear. One report is that the antirotation pin is a very poor fit causing excessive wear (that shouldn't occur).

How is your stab tube holding up. I suggest you take it out and have a good look, if you haven't for some time.

I'm particulary interested in any reports of weak spots becoming evident now or in the future. Can you check the fin post or stress just as it passess the top of the fuse. Did you notice it's only balsa, not the right material for such a large fin/rudder with high torque flying? Whats your views on this (most load seems to be taken by the tongue under the fin).

I have concerns over the longevity of this kit from reports. I do hope it's not a "China Syndrome kit". Poor quality in important areas hidden from sight by the covering (interesting about the broken wing ribs and the TE/LE quality, that a definite stitch up at manufacture, a case of out of sight the buyer won't know attitude!).

Yes I have a Vision with all these faults!

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

O.K.,

Mine isn't complete yet... after a long hospital stay I have a wing to finish covering and then reassembling the servos, engine (this has already been done).

Overall... is this a low quality offfering? Not at all! Are there things I didn't care for? Yes. A few.

But, the plane is well built overall, I have no qualms about the solid balsa tailblock. The stabs can work a little loose over time, but many ARFS with removable stabs will.

Flight characteristics? Well I can't really say as I've not held the sticks in my own hands... but seen Neo's fly a few times. I think he's atad over critical this early in the trimming/CG game about it's capabilites... overall it flies very well and does some things very impressive. WIth some rate adjustments It will likely do many other things better to very well.

As many designs, it will excel in some things and be lack luster in others. Just the way of the land. Is it in the same category performance-wise as the EF Yak? No... but then again it's $150 less and currently available. The Yak had it's birthing pains too... but was worth the extra effort to make it perfect.

Is there something better than either of them? Sure... bigger... ;)

All in all, this is a fine plane and shouldn't be doubted until given fair opportunity in the air.

At least I won't. I think it's got lots of potential.

Just my 2 cents worth.

-J. David

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

I dont want to give up on her just yet either, but... I did not like the chinakote on my buds DV, flew off, but, on my Vision, I used clear nail polish, it took awhile, grab a beer, but yes, not one piece has come loose or come off. pretty good. I like the pearl white color.
My stab is fine, a touch loose, but I have not worried about it. I will tape it someday. wing tube fine. motor I epoxied fiberglass to mounting feet, had cowl off sunday, engine tight.
I am going to play with some weight shifting saturday and see what I come up with, then just try to dial it in, ring it out and fly it. I got a Double Vision to build and someday, a Yak. Til then I will just have to be happy and fly it and do things its good at, not bad at I guess.

O, and sell it. End of June.

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Well, I guess I'll chime in with my observations now too. :eek:

I did some more CG testing this week and ended up moving by CG back quite a bit. I'm now at about 4.25" back, which is 1" back from Chip's spec. In the process, I was able to remove 7 ounces of lead from the nose :D:D:D so now I'm a tad over 16-1/4 pounds. Still a little bit heavier than most, but still 3 pounds lighter than the WH Edge I flew last year! ;)

Anyhow, I found that once I got my CG back to 4-1/4" things changed substantially. The plane does a much better wall, and hovers better. Most other manuevers didn't change a whole lot, but it does feel a lot "lighter on it's feet" now. I was actually just a tiny bit further back on my CG Tuesday, and it barely started getting a little nose-high on landings... not enough to worry though. I bumped it about 1/8" or so back forward and I think I'm going to keep it right there.

Overall, yes, I agree it is no DV. However, it's still better than most planes I've flown. Mine does some things fantastic, like slow rolls, harriers, waterfalls, wingtip spins, etc... but it sucks at hovering and I can't get a flat spin at all. The jury is still out on knife edges. Not too bad on low rates and high speed, but high rates / high alpha knife edge is not great.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... Keep your speed up and air going over that rudder and it has plent of authority, but at low-to-no speed, it just isn't getting enough prop wash to do the job. However, it's still very early and I've got a lot to learn about and dial in with this plane, so I'm not going to judge it harshly quite yet. Even if it never gets any better than it is now, it's still a "keeper" in my book. [8D]

As far as durability... we'll have to wait and see. So far, I've had no problems at all with my stabs. I've got 10 flights in now and all engine and muffler bolts are extremely tight, with now compression or degredation of the firewall. Everything is holding up perfect to date. Gear, tailewheel, horns, airframe, the works... all strong and holding. Granted, I did change out the hinges (Robarts) and I stripped all the ChinaKote off on day one, recovering completely with UltraCote... so I don't have those covering issues. ;)

I know when I fly my Yak that my Vision will probably lose some points and will get less attention, but I'm sure I'll still be happy with it and will take it to the field many times in the future. Sometimes it's nice just to have something "different" to fly, especially something that you put a little extra effort into the look of.

Tom

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Well we will all be total demons at the hovering by the time we progress onto the EF Yak ;) Dads interested in one and he wants a petrol twin so im trying to convince him to get the Yak + a ZDZ 80!! [X(]

Angus

ps ive said it before and i'll say it again. I love my Vision. Give it 8/10 so I will (-1 cos of covering, -1/2 cos it doesn't torque roll as easily as some planes ive flown and -1/2 as rudder authority could be better)

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Thanks Tom for the input. your cg is right with mine. agree, walls are awesome. somethings very good at with this plane. Just bloody spoiled I am after flying a buds yak and it does everything, with little to no work, and smiles about it. It flies like a fun fly competition airplane and a gas mixed together. Very impressive. Like you guys said, just have to enjoy the Vision for what its worth. I believe I am selling mine in about a month though. I will move on to getting the DV done and fly that and or the Yak.

For now though, I will keep fiddling and flying.

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

I CAN vouch for the DV...

IT is one rockin' plane... I have a backup for it. It does so much... but it too with it's long moment doesn't like to flatspin... it CAN be done, but it's not easy to get it entered just right. THen playing with throws.... I found it needed very little to NO aileron when entered just right... but if you don't get it in there at first you won't get it in there...

Most other stuff it does VERY well... walls, elevators, wingtip spins, hovering, harriers, etc... no snapping tendencies at all upright and just a tad of snapping on extreme elevator input inverted...

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

That's one thing that I really DO love about my Vision... Very predictable, especially in regards to "snapping". [8D]

I can hammer full elevator at any rate, any time and not have to worry about it snapping or doing anything that would get me into trouble (especially down low). That, to me, is worth it's weight in gold. Very few planes can offer you this.

While yes, it doesn't do ALL manuevers the way I'd like it to, it's still nice knowing just what it WILL do, and knowing it won't get you into trouble. Unlike the DV, I "can" hammer full high rate down elevator with zero snapping. That would be the "only" thing it has over the DV though.

Again, playing with the CG and tweaking rates, you will find that you can morph this plane into a lot of different behavior patterns, so don't assume that what you have now is all it does. ;)

I still have my Yak ready to maiden, and I've got a DV in the box, so I'll be in good shape for birds this year. It's nice to know you have a number of different ships that all offer something different. I have no need for 3 planes that all look and act exactly the same. ;)

Tom

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Tom you should sell me your Yak, haha. Dont fly it, I will come pick it up, trade you a Vision and some cash. Understand what you guys are saying, I kinda wish my DV was done in one way so I could fly it, but I do not really have the time to devote to it right now. I wish I had a Yak, but will have to wait like everyone else.

I do like the no snapping, holy cow thats nice, nice to fly a plane and bend the elevator and not worry about that. My buds Yak is the same tho, its even more forgiving.

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

[sm=lol.gif]Not a chance! [sm=punching.gif] You stay away from my Yak! [sm=lol.gif]

I'm gonna wring this Vison out to the max, and if anything happens to it, I'll put the guts in my DV. Takes a lot of the "pressure" off flying the Vision when I know I've got a Yak too, and a DV that needs all the goodies in my Vision. ;)

However, if the Vision holds up and keeps me happy, then I guess I'll just have to drop some cash on a DA and servos for the DV too! [&:]

Tom

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Yeah I hear ya. I hope to get the Yak this summer, or if anyone comes across one, let me know, and transfer outta the Vision the goodies to go in it. The DV I got the DA and some other items for it. I want to get carbon wing tubes and such for it, try to make it light on its feet.
Sell the Vision after that, or before it once I hear the Yak has come to shore. I am wondering if any are even going to come ashore this summer, as you know we only have till september to really enjoy good weather, after that, its down hill with weather and light outside. If nothing by then from EF I will prolly skip it and buy a Comp Arf 100 size. I hate to go bigger due to cost, but at least you can get the planes.

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Thanks Guy's,

Clearly your all experienced. During the build stage made your own changes and they've worked for you.

There seems no doubt that it is nice looking bird and flys well, and the jury will have to stay out abit longer to see how will it stands up to the punishment.

But it is a new kit with some standards of the early ARF's of years gone buy!

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

I was having fun with mine yesterday at a public show, hovering low, think I finally got the motor shimmed right, seemed to find the happy groove. I was running a brand new CHP 22x8 prop, I like it, and having fun with the plane. On my second flight the wheel came off in air, so I was going to hover and have a bud catch it, but we figured with all the spectators that would be bad if things went wrong, so I came in to land, mind you blustery wind, so it smucked on the gear and tore it back a inch, and ripped off my left elevator, must be it caught the tundra as I had up in it. Ripped it right out clean. Easy enough fix, just a bummer. I was running no wheel pants at the time, so the wheel just came right off. Those darn wheel collars, I need to come up with a bullet proof way. I wish they pre drilled the outside of the axle for a cotter key or something. So in the shop I go to fix her up.

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Perhaps you did this, but after setting the wheels and noting the position of the wheel collars, remove them and file flats in the axles where the coallrs are... just enough so the set screw drops down to it. Then with lock tight on the set screw you should never have one come loose... At least I never have using this method.

The set screw has to back out enough to clear the "unfiled" part of the axle...

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

No, I did not do that. I just screwed them on. You have a good idea, anytime I have used locktite, blue mind you, it becomes a thing of science as it welds itself into the collar. I have never liked the whole idea of these collars since I started flying, there has to be a better way?
I got the gear back on, stab off and ready to re hinge. The split gear was a godsend for something like this, only bent slightly on one side, instead of both. Good design there Chip. Wish I wouldnt have smoked my new prop. but...

This plane definately is a Ford. Fix or repair daily. haha.

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

I take offence to a Vision being compared to a Ford.:D:D

Not too sure what plane I would diss so bad to compare it to a Ford, however Funtana comes to mind. IMO, Other than hovering or doing a harrier, the Funtana is a crappy flyn bird. And NO lets turn this into Funtana thread number 165,069.

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Easy now... I'm a hardcore FORD man!!!! [sm=punching.gif] I Love my 4X4 F150! [8D]

Tom

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Oops, sorry to hear that guys. Ford and all, first best day of owning a Ford for me was when I sold her. I am a Toyota man. They are number 1 for a reason, soon to be worldwide. Just cannot beat them.
The new F150 does look nice tho, give it that. But its no Toyota in quality.


Anyway, yeah, I feel like this plane is my demon plane, always working on it. It has come along way tho, and granted several problems were my own fault. I was having fun with it Saturday, I can say that, one of the first days I landed with a pretty good smile. Cept for the one where my tire was in the trees.

Funtana, ugh, I know, so many people with this plane, I was happy to smash mine and see others burn. It sucked.

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Brace yourselves...

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Nice job on the flying wires.

I notice your 4/40 rods are bare om the elevators...

They could give a little under high stress loads resulting in some odd "blowback" behaviors in flight...

We usually slide .18 cf tubes over the rods and ropxy them in place... stiffens them up so they won't give a bit...

Just a thought.

RE: Chip Hyde's Vision 3D
 

Hi Maudib,

The elevator pushrods are actually 3mm hardened steel threaded rod. I would usually use carbon rods but this is how it came (it's second hand). So far they have been fine :)

Angus