Flaperons or spoilerons
 

I have been meaning to ask this question for a while.. I have been playing around with my flaperon mix on my transmitter. trying to do some manuvers that this helps on. with virtually no effect at all.. I have been trying it with about 20% when the elevator goes up the ailerons go up aND VICE VERSA. should they go the opposite direction or the same as the elevator. and how much mix should i give it ? alot or a little? Thanks.. Example:: i have never been able to get a plane to go end over end[:@] in any way:( or wall deicent. so i have just been concentrating on other manuvers but now im ready to add these to the bag of tricks..Again thanks in advance..

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

if your flaps go up, they push the plane down, if your elevator goes up it pitches the plane upwards, so they are somewhat acting against each other cancelling out, i dont think this is what you want, if you are trying to make the plane loop tighter or turn upwards faster, i think you should have the elevators go up, and the flaps go down at the same time, im not sure about the percentage, but i ran 30% and my plane did noticeably tighter loops than before

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

On my Funtana I have 100% spoileron mixed in. That is when the ELEV is all the way up(down stick) the AILEs are all the way up. It also helps to do them inverted. It will wing rock upright. This is the same mix I use for waterfalls(end over end). Please note I have a bunch of throw and my CG is way back. You did not mention what plane you are flying. Maybe it wont 3D no mater what the setting?

A word of caution. I have my mix on the trainer switch so I can quickly disable it. When I first set it up it was on a regular switch. At the bottem of an elevator the plane is pretty hairy with a 100% spoileron mixed in. I had to go into a hover flip the switch and then fly out. With it on the trainer switch I can just let go and throttle up to fly out.

david

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

thanks i havent tried it that way.. The Way i have been trying your right it just mushes and tip stalls easy.. I didnt think about if i did it opposite it would create more lift on the wing.[X(] sometimes you miss the obvious HE HE i will try it. dont ask me why i never tried it the other way yet. thanks for getting my head straight

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

I have mine on switch (eclipse 7) Ive tried it on the U-can-do ,Mini 3D,Funtana 90. I know its difficult to do with a U-can-do (waterfalls) but the funtana 90 the CG was at 7 1/4 and couldnt get it to go over.. I can get planes on the sim with spoileron mix to go over, G2 and Aerofly Pro but in real world havent got one yet. I will have to keep changing the mix,, I even have a Jumping Jack electric that with do everything from Blazing blenders to perfect rolling harriers that i can transition into a torque rolling hover but cant get a waterfall[:@][:@][:@]

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

I have my funtana and my edge setup like your first post...........it works great to slow your plane down.

bring your plane in a slight dive.......down to idle, hit spoilerons(both ailerons up when up elevator pressed) then give up elevator and throttle. It should wall pretty good.


This feature also works as an air brake on landing. Once your plane settles in.....go to 3D rates and hit the spoilers with elevator and watch your plane just stop on the runway.

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

so from what you guys are saying i allready have it the right way ? I have tried it at 100% and 20% I used to use it all the time when i was in HOVER training it seemed to help me hold one. but i dont use it for that anymore. i have tried doing waterfalls by coming into them slow and then banging throttle till it gets ready to flip then letting out and thent when it comes back around banging it again . But i have seen people practically keeping it wide open and it just keeps going around.. Is it just my technique..?? i have tried it several different was but none are really what i call right

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

Actually spoilerons (elevator up ailerons up) kills wing lift. Thats why it helps with an elevator maneuver. A little reflex(spoileron) helps to evenly stall the wingtips so that they dont rock as each wing loses then regains lift in opposite time causing rock. I have a spoileron setup on my spring loaded trainer switch as well. As has been mentioned you can get into some serious trouble if you get real low in an elevator and try to fly with spoilerons engaged. Its really nice to just let go of the trainer/snap switch and forget about it. Truth is however, the better I get I have found I dont need spoilerons, if you make preimptive aileron control moves and dont wait till the wing drops and then react you can pretty much stop the rocking altogether. Takes hours and hours and hours of practice on the sim and with your real plane to get it, especially on a big scale Edge 540 that tends to wingrock a lot.

To get a good waterfall you really need massive elevator deflection, probably at least 60 degrees. Spoilerons help but to really get a true waterfall, that is basically a zero radius rotation around the wingtube, you need that huge elevator deflection. A tight radius loop is not a waterfall.

To really get a mental picture of what a waterfall is suposed to look like, imagine a rod that extends from wingtip to wingtip right through the CG, like a pig roasting on a spit over an open fire, except stabbed through the left side and out the right side instead of in the mouth and out the poop chute, lol;). Now grab the plane by the nose or tail and let it spin nose over tail on the imaginary rod and thats what a waterfall should look like. It is not a tight loop, its actually pivoting right on the cg. Do it right and it will get going so fast you will think the wings are going to come off. Its a very cool maneuver.
Also to initiate a waterfall you have to pulse the throttle, full throttle over the top, completely out as its inverted and the full throttle as it pulls into the vertical and back over the top, however once it gets going you leave full throttle and hang on. It will fall like a stone and probably be making 40-50RPMs. A good waterfall can get REALLY fast and can exert some SERIOUS strain on the airframe but man it looks cool. Like like to get it into a waterfall and the let it fall over on its side into a knife edge spin with a little aileron and rudder input.

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

I can assure you am not doing tight loops i just cant get it to the full throttle spin like you are saying.I get maybe 1 to 2 revoulutions before it does become a tight loop.Like i said i can do it on the sims but not with the real thing.thanks for your help i will keep trying it.

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

Well sometimes it just takes it a few of those tight loops before it really gets going. Im not sure why sometimes I can enter it perfectly and sometimes the plane will lumber around up there and then all of the sudden it bites and the waterfall fun begins. Bottom line is spoilerons will help clean up some maneuvers Also try a flaperon mix, its just the opposite, up elevator down ailerons. Its not just for landing you can do some crazy things with flaperons on, plus the plane will continue to fly since flaperons actually add lift so although you have to be careful, its not nearly as bad as spoilerons.


Mike

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

I think some of you may be missing the answer here. With my radio (Eclipse 7) you program in Positive mixing ( +20%) for spoilerons, and Negative Mixing (-20%) for Flaperons. As discussed in the original question, If 20% is being mixed, the ailerons WOULD go up with the elevator. Again, with the Hitec Eclipse 7, you would have to enter a -20% mixing for flaperons. Then as you add elevator, the ailerons would go down like flaps.

I think this may be what Drumbum may be wanting to know.

Thanks again guys. I love reading and learning from all of this too

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

How I get the Funtana .40 into a water fall............... I slow the plane to nearly a stall into the wind and upright. Just as the plane is starting to get mushy and go into a stall I pull the mix on, give full down(55degrees of elev)and give full power. As the plane comes back around to level I cut the power to 50%. As it gets inverten I go back to full power. I have to keep working the throttle. I have not been able to hold full power and keep it in as BigNed described. I will have to work on that. Also the longer it goes the better they get. Mine also looses ALT fairly quick. At the bottem I just go into a hover and climb out.



david

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

Heres a link to a video clip of a knife edge spin that is almost as fast as the waterfalls I can get my plane, by the way its a 30% Edge 540T, into. This is for reference of the potential speed you can build up. Also you see that same classic zero raduis, the plane is knife edge spinning right on the wingtube axis.:D


http://www.3dbatix.com/videos/edge540kes.wmv

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

I have seen waterfalls that fast > i think it was a morris the knife or the extreme flight yak profile on someones video post, I cant remember. If it ever warms back up around here i can get some practice[&o]

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

So, what's the consensus here. For a waterfall is it better to use spoilerons to reduce lift so the plane won't do outside loops?

Also, I didn't quite understand the configuration for air brakes on landing. Do you come in and mix flaps with up elevator. Won't all that lift make it hard to land?

Thanks,

rino

RE: Flaperons or spoilerons
 

My personal experience is that if you have enough elevator throw and enough power you dont need any aileron mix to do waterfalls. The mix makes up for a lack of one or the other.

I was dead serious about the same for elevators and dealing with wingrock. My Edge wants to wingrock like hell but I have found that after hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of time on the sim and practicing with my plane I can stop the wingrock on my own without the spoileron mix. The key to doing good clean 3D maneuvers is paying close attention to detail in your setup and how you fly your plane and burning copious amounts of fuel on a regular basis. The trick is knowing your plane and making corrections BEFORE a problem begins and not waiting until you see it and then correcting.

Case in point for me,,, I bet I have done 10000 rolling harrier circles(not exaggerating) just in the last 3 or 4 months and Im still not satisfied with the way they look. You cant just know the control sequence, you have to input the controls at the perfect time with the perfect throttle control. The more you practice and get comfortable, the more you can see the little mistakes you are making. As you are perfecting those mistakes your brain is working faster and you begin to see the even SMALLER mistakes you are making. And the funny part is looking at back at what seemed impossible 50000 Rolling Harrier Circles ago is automatic.. And the challenge for me, all that practice and Im just your average pilot when it comes to producing clean rolling harriers, and the other 3D maneuvers, they arent really anything special, Im just beginning to make them look like I sortof know what Im doing.

And I can barely hover because I havent practiced enough.. Sure on the sim I can hover like Mark Leseburg but I havent worked on my hovering all that much. I can do it, but its sloppy. I suspect that after about 20 tanks of gas dedicated to nothing but hovering I will be getting ok at it.


Practice Practice Practice