Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

I have been using JR 8411's on my larger aircraft,but have been concerned about them matching when there are two on the same surface ie;alieron and rudder.I was wondering how good the Hitec's are when using the programmer?The only problem I have had with the JR's was the two on the rudder became irratic.I really don't want to use a matchbox because that is one more thing that can fail.So,all that being said,how good are the Hitec's?How well do they hold up before slop beomes a problem?Which ones should I use?I will be putting them in an Aeroworks 35% Edge 540T.
Thanks,
Mike

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Mike.

You need to get a hold of WreckRman2 and have a talk with him regarding servos. More specifically his experience with Hitech Digi's.

You can find him here on RCU or his e-mail:
webmaster@********.net

Tell him I sent you........

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

JR, Futaba, Airtronics, and HiTec have had their problems. WreckRman2 can't prove that he lost his airplane because of any servo. However, he is the most vocal of the few people expressing their dislike for HiTec. If you look around you will easily find someone who will knock every product known to man on this board. Take everything both bad and good with a grain of salt.

I currently run all digital HS-5645MG servos in my DP Extra 330L, and run all HiTec analog servos in several other airplanes. I've read the threads about HiTec servos along with problems and complaints about the other manufacturers products. I worry (NOT) about it so much that I just purchased six digital HS-5945MG servos, two digital HS-5735 servos, and one HS-225MG servo for my 35% Carden Edge 540 that is on the bench being built. In other words I don't worry any more about HiTec products than the Futaba PCM receiver that will go in the plane. Plus you simply CAN NOT BEAT THE PROGRAMMER FOR MATCHING UP THE SERVOS!!! It is a great tool the JR and Futaba are way behind on. Both have come out with their little match type boxes that go flying with the airplane. It looks like you will need a few of them for each airplane using multiple servos per control surface. Plus it is like you mentioned, it is just something else that can take a dump. I want to keep the chances of product failure low.

It is just like everything else, test the snot out of everything in the plane as often as you can to minimize the risk of failure.

Agreed
 

I must agree w/ Mike..
All products have issues..to me the true test is IF there is a problem is how the company handles the issue..and I must say You cant touch the customer service provided by Hi tec..Not to mention They produce a great product...i think theses other co.(jr/Futaba) need to watch out. I do believe Futaba has seen the writing on the wall offering a radio 9C comperably priced to hitec radios Eclips 7
Hitech is driving the market at this time..Go figure ..offer a fairly priced and good quality product and people will use it...

Scott

You have to match them up...
 

No matter what servos you use you have to match them up....Since all your using is 2 servos per surface this is easy to do especially on the rudder. If they are not setup right (Travel Adjust and linkage) you will have problems.....

This goes for any of the servos....even the Hitecs that are programmable...basically what you are doing is programming them for end point, center and so on.....just like a matchbox or what your Computerized TX can do.

The big issue that I have seen with the programmer and has been brought up with users of it...the servo is programmed away from the TX inputs....So you don't know what the exact output of the TX is and thus you can get a mismatch there also.....I'm not an expert on the programmer for the Hitecs.....Just going on what I have seen and heard. The programmer is cool and allows a degree of freedom....but its not the end all answer and just because you used the programmer doesn't mean the same setup stuff will not apply. Its more a case of where you do the setup....in the programmer, in the TX, or in a Match Box.

I can speak with confidence on the JR stuff. A match box merely makes a 2 servo setup easier since everything is away from the TX....The matchbox takes the signal that is going to that channel and allows you to match the servos up so that they move the same are reversed properly and so on.....It is best used when 3 or more servos are mixed or when you have so many servos mixed you are running out of program mixes and channels to mix with.

If you are only using 2 servos on the rudder this is easily done the same way in fact the exact same way using the Travel Adjust (ATV), subtrims in the TX....... and then proper linkage setup......

I know its not the easiest thing to setup when dealing with these big monster 33%+ planes but it seems to be a necessary evil....The matchbox really excels in setting up more than 2 servos per surface...like if you wanted 3 servos on the rudder. Or you wanted to put 4 elevator servos all on one channel with no "Y" and no dual elevator mixing.

The 8411's have become very proven with guys using 6-8-10+ per airplane....Like anything else it takes time to setup properly and once its done you are good to go.....By the way after you do it a couple times it becomes second nature and its not a big hassle.

Len Alesi wrote a great document on setting up a 33% airplane with multiple servos on the control surfaces....

Its at the Horizon Hobby website. Its worth a read on how he does it.....I do my stuff the same way. It works very well...Not only that but it works for all setups.....

http://www.horizonhobby.com/articles/1169.asp


Futaba, Hitec JR or Airtronics his practices work the same and will help you get them setup properly. All servos have electronic differences and most of these are small 2% here 5% there...no 2 electronic components are identical.

I don't think that switching servos to another brand is going to resolve your issue...

I may be off base and you just had a servo that was not up to snuff.....but I have seen it more often than not......guys don't have the servos matched properly in the TX in the geometry or both......They work hard at it and give it a good shot but in the end something is off....Usually its Geometry....No matter how many matchbox's or servo programmers or different brands you try Geometry is going to be the killer.....

***Servo arm 90deg to the pushrod (ignore 90degs to the case) Its gotta be to the pushrod...... subtrim the servo until this is correct. Try different horns on different servos all plugged into a Y harness on the exact same channel....match them up here so that the subtrim values to get them the same are as small as possible.....Don't want one servo with a 100% subtrim and another with 3 %....Something is wrong if this is the case....You don't need 20 servo to find 2 that are close...all the brands are pretty close...Just match the ones you have the best you can. It will make life easier in the end.

*** Control Horn/clevis pivot point (on the surface) directly over the hinge line...I mean right on it...so they are in the same plane...and matches the horn on the other side. (bend the bolt slightly to achieve this or re-install it is a better solution.) This one is tough to get as drilling the holes for the bolt are not perfect....a slight bend in the bolt is OK here....but not anything major. I'm talking 1/16" or less bending adjustment....Any more and you will weaken the bolt. If the pivot points are not exactly alike and on the same plane as the axis of rotation....The pushrod links will not both have the same forces or loads on them....One might be moving easy and the other the servo is pushing back against it....the ....Example a door hinge with one hinge not aligned in the same axis....The door will bind.

*** The distance from the control horn/clevis pivot point to the axis of hinge line exactly the same on both servo linkages...(this one gets tough usually a 8-32 or 10-32 bolt and you are limited by 1/32 of an inch or whole turns...) But this will work...and get it as close as possible. The Travel Adjust or ATV will take care of the minor differences.And I mean minor ones only

*** next is slop free. Good ball links, or clevis type devices

*** no binding at the ends. What I do is hook up one side to the surface and then just position the other ball link or clevis device in place....first check the center to make sure it aligns perfectly and is just not connected. Adjust the rod length if its off slightly....Then I move the surface and make sure my 2nd servo and linkage tracks all the way with it and stays aligned. But its still not connected. If it doesn't then Travel Adjust (ATV) so it does. This is the step where the Matchbox, the programmer or you mixing setup in the TX takes over....It doesn't even count until this step. You could program the servos with the programmer exactly the same....but the electronic components in your TX or RX could see slightly different values that same 2% 3% or 5% difference. The pots in the TX are just like the pots in the Servo they vary. This is the last and final step to make sure everything is cool, and no matter how you do it.....It all hinges on this step. All the previous steps allow for less headaches here.

Note if you hook the 2nd servo up you won't know where the binding is and both servos will buzz.....I use the main servo #1 as the master and "match" the other servo to it....What ever the master does the second one matches end points, centers and so on....

The JR 8411 is so precise and so strong that if you don't do things this way they will fight each other and I have even seen guys strip the 2 servos out..they actually were so far at of whack they stripped each others gears. And the guy flew them 20-30 flights setup that way before they gave up! He was shocked because he had spent an hour setting them up and they didn't break right away so his setup was OK right?

I hope this helps...Its a complicated issue and different companies have different solutions. All of the current solutions require the same steps for the setup.

I'm not alone in this opinion but I think you have the absolute best servo on the market today for doing what you are doing....They are not perfect...but they are the best solution available! Not only that but compared to 5 yrs ago they are light years ahead of where we were back in those days.

The guys using Hitecs, Futabas or Airtronics will argue this fact based on brand loyalty.....like the Ford, Chevy or Dodge trucks argument but they can't argue the steps to setup any of the brands....Some will do more....in the setup process but I can't see it done properly with any less attention to detail. Regardless of brand of servo, brand of radio or servo performance.

Good Luck

Troy Newman

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Your right... I can't prove 100% without a doubt that the servo was the cause but at the same time Hitec, nor anyone else, can prove 100% without a doubt that it didn't cause the crash either. All of my own findings lead me to believe that it was the servo and if theres anyone in this world to back me on this it would be Wayne. Not just because he is a friend but because he was standing right beside me at the time of the crash assisting me with trim settings while I was trying to keep the plane from crashing. He witnessed the whole flight from takeoff to the crash and I know he will back me in saying the plane most defiantly went in from a problem with the aileron servo and not from lack of ability to fly the plane.

As for being extremely vocal what more can you expect from someone that just lost a 27% Extra on the 5th flight from a failure of a brand new servo. Hitec and everyone else can say and believe what they want too but I know that servo caused the crash and if there is a problem then why not be vocal and push the manufacture to investigate further to possibly help prevent others from suffering a loss as well. You all know as well as I do that my case is not the only one...

Now... should you buy Hitec's over JR? I'm not gonna say yes or no but I will say that from my own experiences with their equipment and their personal I will not buy another Hitec product. Troy Newman's post should answer you question and help you decide which is best for your application. It's very informational and it says it best...

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Over the years I've used JR, Hitec and Futaba, and for the most part I've been satisfied with all. I've had one futaba receiver crystal fail that cost me a 30% Staudacher {they replaced the crystal for free, it was 1 month old}, I've had 1 JR standard servo fail in a trainer {it was on the rudder so no damage} and thats all. I really like the Hitec programmer it make multiple servo set-up a breeze, and to date have had no problems with Hitec servos.
I can understand Wreckman2, and I'm sure I would be just as pissed, but Futaba wasn't any better to me.
I like JR servos, I think we can all agree they are high quality, and very reliable.
I personally won't buy another Futaba product, Not because there bad but because they acted like I had no right to complain about the failure that cost my plane. Its as if I was bothering them and was left on hold more than 15 minutes.
I love the programmer from Hitec and have no complaints about the quality of there digital servos. The programmer can also be used to check other brands and you would be surprised about the difference I found when comparing 6 8411's, and 4 Futaba 9252's. There are differences in the Hitec 5954's but they can be fixed by pressing a few buttons.
I'll go back to JR, when and if, they develop a similar device,
:D

failure's
 

WreckRman2,
I'm wondering if you had the same problem that I did when I came very close to loosing my new plane? I'm sorry but I don't have the time to research all of the post to see the specifics of your crash.
My JR Y harness with amp failed and caused both ailerons servos to go into full deflection. They let up long enough to get it over the runway and did it again. One wing tip slammed the ground but only tore the covering. It did however ruin a $80.00 rudder servo.
Perry

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

What did people do when they had to setup 2 digital servos per aileron before servo programmers or JR matchboxes ?

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

I know, it makes you wonder how those poor TOC guys who didn't have all those gadgets get along!

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

That is exactly right. There is no doubt about why his plane went in. It was a problem with a Hitech aileron servo. He was able to duplicate the problem with it on the bench repeatedly after the crash.
Do JR or Futaba servos fail? Of course they do. I watched a H9 33% Cap porpoise into the ground last weekend because of what looked like to be a problem with a JR 8411.
My problem with Hitech now is how they handled David's problem with his servos. Really bad customer service after the crash in my opinion. For that, I will spend the extra money and buy JR or Futaba because I know I will get better service if there is a problem.


"The ideas, thoughts, opinions expressed in this post are those of the
individual moderator and may not necessarily represent the views of RCU,
it's management or it's employees."

Crashes
 

And the week before Wayne saw a 33% cap Fly away. The plane just stopped responding all together. The plane was being flown with Futaba TX and RX. I have been lucky as not to have a failure with any servo or RX that was not a result of a Dumb thumb but I have seen plenty of failures. I was there when WreckRman lost his Extra and I was there when the Cap flew away and these were not pilot problems. With out a doubt these were equipment failure.


Chris Puckett
Puckett Model Aviation

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Bottom Line is electronic stuff fails.

Knowing that, think past the failure and think about the customer service part of the equation. Use that to help you make your decision on what to buy.

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

There IS an issue with older Hitec digitals when paired with a non-Hitec computer radio.

For a little light reading, visit:

Hitec Digital Servo Warning

Karl

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Wayne
You say that the customer service at hitec is poor..is this from your own experience? I have dealt with both Mike and Glenn at Hitec and have had excellent experiences with both these guys. Any servo issues I have had were resolved quickly and without question. Mike has answered my questions promptly and has always acted professionally. It is unfair to make sweeping statements about a company without stating specific facts. If you have a problem with hitec products give Mike a call on the phone..he'll be more than happy to work it out with you. Did you expect Hitec to replace the plane that crashed? I doubt any radio manufacturer would do this. Try getting something fixed from Futaba (that will be 35.00 for the first component plus 15.00 for each 15 minutes..etc), all they seem to want is your money. Hitec has replaced items for me free of charge even when the repair was due to something I had done. There are no replacement guarantees available when we fly GS model planes..there are risks involved everytime you take off. Look at a guy like Blaine Austin, I think he has lost 3 GS planes this year. He just picks up the pieces and moves on, he doesn't dwell on it because he knows its just part of the hobby. I have alot of respect for him.

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Guys, just a question. I know the answer is probably no, buy worth a try. If you get a very nice, very expensive plane, with top of teh range radio gear. The whole outfit costs thousands. If one of the servos fails, due to the manufacturer, and your plane gets written off, would they replace the plane?
As I say, doubt it, but worth to know.
Robert.

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Nope...

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Giant Scale,

Personal experience? No. I dont use Hitech in any of my expensive planes.

What I posted was in reference to David's experience with them after his plane went in. I know exactly what that experience was because I talked to David daily while he was trying to get the problem solved. Or, at least looked into.
Did David expect to get his plane replaced by Hitech? Nope.
Did David want the manufacturer to treat him with a little respect as a paying customer? Yes.
Did they? No.

I am sure there are people who can say the same the same thing with JR / Horizon / Futaba / etc. regarding less than adequate customer service. It just seems like I hear a lot of negative when Hitech is mentioned and for that, I'll pay a little more for JR or Futaba.

Example:
A friend of mine had a backplate break on a Saito .72 the other day. He had a new one less than 24 hours after sending an e-mail to Horizon. How do you beat that?
No questions asked except "where do we send it to?"


As I said earlier, things will fail. When I buy something I want to at least feel that if I do have a problem I can get decent customer service. How do you find that out prior to buying? Talking to people, reading up on it etc. And based on what I have seen, heard and read I make my decision from there.


"The ideas, thoughts, opinions expressed in this post are those of the
individual moderator and may not necessarily represent the views of RCU,
it's management or it's employees."

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

The same thing we always did... matched servos by hand. All it takes is lots of time and lots of servos.

David

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

When a failed crystal in my Futaba receiver caused the loss of my 30% Staud. GS-300 futaba replaced only the crystal, about $10, my loss about $1,000, and they acted like they were doing me a giant favor. :thumbdown

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Well,thanks for all the response.I still haven't made up my mind,but I already have the 8411"s,but the LHS said he would take them back and get me the Hitec's if I wanted.As far as customer service goes,I believe that we the consumers,are why these people are in business and we should be treated with respect no matter what the case.I am in the service business and I know how hard this can be,but none the less,without us these people wouldn't be in business,we pay their salary!!As far as what should they be responsible for when we lose an aircraft,giant scale or otherwise?These people have no way of knowing what actually happened and why,they only have our word and in some cases that is not all that reliable!I know and I am sure most of you know some people who have gotten things they really didn't deserve only because the manfacturer trusted their word,sometimes expensive stuff.I think the manfacturer should replace the failed part,but the whole aircraft,I don't think so.Lets face it we know anything can happen long before we ever even start building the kit,let alone flying it.If you are not willing to except the unexpected,don't fly it.I am not happy either when something happens,especially if it wasn't my fault(most of the times it is)But that's a chance we take everytime we start the plane.I am still looking for help with my decision though.
Thanks,
Mike

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

I would have to agree with Outcast i have had great service and support from Mike and Glenn i recentily had 4 old 605s with bad pods they had over 100 flights on them and Hitec not replaced them free they paid the return shipping. The 605s have had some centering issues in the past and now are replaced with the 625s and 645s . I have talked to many Giant scale flyers who fly 33 and 35% planes and are using Hitec 5945s with no problems For what its worth How are ya Outcast???? Bruce

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Doing OK Bruce, except that I sold my Carden Extra and I think I'm suffering from withdrawal :^)

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

Outcast why did you sell it ?? didnt remember you saying anything about that plane By the way i am working on my Radiocraft 330 35% its going pretty good going to power it with a Brison 6.4 twin Using all Hitec 5945s with jr 8103 transmitter Hope i dont have the problems some of these other folks have had with the Digitals Bruce

Hitec or JR digitals ?
 

I needed the money for another project.
Dick Hanson has made some interesting observations about wing loading in another post in this forum and I wan't to try if for myself. :D