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-   3D Flying! (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/3d-flying-82/)
-   -   Update:Cannot get wings to stop rocking!! (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/3d-flying-82/4566294-update-cannot-get-wings-stop-rocking.html)

AeroDave 08-08-2006 02:32 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
More:
I was flying a 120 sized plane I designed this morning, getting ready to shoot some video. One of the moves I was working on led to me screwing up the harrier chars of this plane. Here's what happened: I was doing a turnaround move i use, a stationary front flip from a low wall, back across in an inverted harrier. Problem was, I couldn't get the rotation tight enough, even though I was only blipping the throttle. So I mixed in some flaperons on a switch. So now the rotation's tight but the airplane responds way different with or without flapperons, unlike when you flip rate switch. So I wanted to see if I could do everything I was planning with the flapperons on. Upright harriers and elevators now had this big, loping rock, so the elevator looked more like it was walking down stairs. So I just changed mindset and started in with the quick corrections/anticipations you need to control wingrock and it was fine. Even though the plane flies a bit looser, I'll leave them in for the vid.

MikeEast 08-08-2006 03:29 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
1 Attachment(s)
ORIGINAL: AeroDave

More:
I was flying a 120 sized plane I designed this morning, getting ready to shoot some video. One of the moves I was working on led to me screwing up the harrier chars of this plane. Here's what happened: I was doing a turnaround move i use, a stationary front flip from a low wall, back across in an inverted harrier. Problem was, I couldn't get the rotation tight enough, even though I was only blipping the throttle. So I mixed in some flaperons on a switch. So now the rotation's tight but the airplane responds way different with or without flapperons, unlike when you flip rate switch. So I wanted to see if I could do everything I was planning with the flapperons on. Upright harriers and elevators now had this big, loping rock, so the elevator looked more like it was walking down stairs. So I just changed mindset and started in with the quick corrections/anticipations you need to control wingrock and it was fine. Even though the plane flies a bit looser, I'll leave them in for the vid.
Yep, that is basically confirming what I was saying before about REALLY stalling the wing. Whenever you put deflex(flaps) in the ailerons you create MORE LIFT, which is exactly what you DONT want in a harrier. As I said before all wingrock is, is one wing stalling, then the other, over and over and over. You want to get the AOA up really high so that the wing stalls completely and you are relying on thrust and propwash ONLY for flight. Thats goes right in line with what Falcon Pilot said the guy in the other forum said and I was trying to get across. By increasing elevator throw you can get the AOA up at a higher angle, this further stalls the wing. Having a higher AOA allows you to fly with less forward speed and more throttle on to help the surfaces work. Once the wing is stalled, it aint gonna rock. Here is where I find for "my plane" that the harriers really lock in. In the 2nd pic, the wing is at a lower AOA and I can guarantee you it was wanting to rock if not just flat flying.

cncswiss1 08-08-2006 04:31 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
that's why some folks setup a spoileron mix for harriers, to force a better wing stall. Raising the TE of your 'rons 1/8" or so could tame things down a bit.

FalconWings 08-08-2006 05:06 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 

ORIGINAL: cncswiss1

that's why some folks setup a spoileron mix for harriers, to force a better wing stall. Raising the TE of your 'rons 1/8" or so could tame things down a bit.
That's cheating :D

then again, so is mixing, expo, D/R, and anything other than a 4 channel Futaba Atack system.

MikeEast 08-08-2006 08:01 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 

ORIGINAL: FalconWings


ORIGINAL: cncswiss1

that's why some folks setup a spoileron mix for harriers, to force a better wing stall. Raising the TE of your 'rons 1/8" or so could tame things down a bit.
That's cheating :D

then again, so is mixing, expo, D/R, and anything other than a 4 channel Futaba Atack system.
You can get the same effect by increasing elevator throw. You would not want to cheat now.:D

FalconWings 08-09-2006 09:08 AM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
Hi Mike,

I was able to chat with John Braziel late last night at the field. He was flying a 40% Carden Yak-54, and told me that the Yak dos require higher than normal alpha for the Harriers. I'll just have to get used to fly it like that. can't wait for my DA-50 to arrive to try it again.

There was a full moon right above the lake at our field last night and these sguys were hoveing in front of it and taking video and pictures...AWESOME!!!

MikeEast 08-09-2006 11:06 AM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
ORIGINAL: FalconWings

Hi Mike,

I was able to chat with John Braziel late last night at the field. He was flying a 40% Carden Yak-54, and told me that the Yak dos require higher than normal alpha for the Harriers. I'll just have to get used to fly it like that. can't wait for my DA-50 to arrive to try it again.

There was a full moon right above the lake at our field last night and these sguys were hoveing in front of it and taking video and pictures...AWESOME!!!
Cool!! Lets see that video!

By the way, heres a a look at arguably the best 3D pilot in the world. He won the nationals in freestyle this year and he is only about 17 years old. I have never seen a pilot with this level of confidence and control for 3D. This video was shot about 2 weeks ago. Its hosted by another site but so what, its a look at true greatness.

[link=http://www.dodvideos.com/dod_flyin_2006_01a.wmv]Kyle W 3D[/link]

STG 08-09-2006 01:56 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 

ORIGINAL: MikeEast
By the way, heres a a look at arguably the best 3D pilot in the world. He won the nationals in freestyle this year and he is only about 17 years old. I have never seen a pilot with this level of confidence and control for 3D. This video was shot about 2 weeks ago. Its hosted by another site but so what, its a look at true greatness.
[link=http://www.dodvideos.com/dod_flyin_2006_01a.wmv]Kyle W 3D[/link]
I flew IMAC for the first time last year and did not show up with caller. I was lucky enough to have Kyle W. volunteer to call for me. What a nice guy--not a hint of arrogance. He did me a favor and flew my plane for me after the competition and made it look absolutely spectacular. As everyone knows this is the guy that flew in the legendary F90 videos.

BTW, Kyle got into this hobby by buying G2 as a game. A year ago that was the sim(G2) he was still using and argued that he thought it was the best.

MikeEast 08-09-2006 03:08 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/mvp/videolink.cfm?postid=50]Kyle Funtana[/link]

Thats one of them, but I still have not found the other one or the one in the snow, which was my favorite.

AeroDave 08-09-2006 05:12 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
Kyle was the guy who recommended learning to control wing rock in G2. When I read that I decided not to upgrade to G3. Like he said, if you can control harrier wing rock in G2, a real model will be no problem

AeroDave 08-09-2006 05:17 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
In fact, I'm working on torque rolling circles in G2 right now, as I wait for that vid to download. I have two computers set up side by side. right now one is on RCU and the other is running G2. Life is good!

STG 08-10-2006 02:22 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
ORIGINAL: MikeEast

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/mvp/videolink.cfm?postid=50]Kyle Funtana[/link]

Thats one of them, but I still have not found the other one or the one in the snow, which was my favorite.
Does not look like he is hosting it on his web site (which looks like it has not been updated since the beginning of last year).

http://www.kyle.macapple.com/

It is the "kyle hay ya" video I think you are talking about with his F40/YS63 taken Feb, 04. I have it download on my computer (25mb)

_____________________

BTW, I don’t think G2 is the best simulator. I sold my G2 and bought AFPD and do not regret it--you can make AFPD as difficult as you want it to be.

FalconWings 08-16-2006 06:26 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
Hi all,
i just got my DA-50 back fro service so it was showtime last night.

I switched to a 23x8 prop, overall performance has improved a lot. However............ha,ha,ha.........wings still rock during Harrier.

waht I did was, as suggested, tried to anticipate and correct. Works good for a while. However, the airplane did track alright so I took it down to the deck right in front of me and harriered it and hovered it. Wings still rock but I guess I can live with it since it is controllable. The 23x8 pulls out of danger a lot better than the 22x10.

Still not as good as my old 27% Cap 232 on Harrier mode, but it's fun to fly.

Next step is to check lateral balance.

David

MikeEast 08-16-2006 08:14 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 
Did you increase the throw?? Just curious since you did not say.

FalconWings 08-16-2006 11:41 PM
RE: Cannot get wings to stop rocking!!
 

ORIGINAL: MikeEast

Did you increase the throw?? Just curious since you did not say.
No I didn't Mike. I flew like around 8:30 last night. I tried to just get airborne before it turned pitch black. Didn't mess around with the radio at all.


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