Super Tiger vs Moki
 

Who thinks I'm spouting BS when I say the Moki 180 is 25% more powerful than the Super Tiger 3000?

Per manufacturer's documentation this is the specificatons for both engines:

Super Tiger ST-3250 (the 3000 is about 2 tenths of a hp less than this successor)

Bore: 36mm (1.417")
Stroke: 32mm (1.128")
Displacement: 32.61cc (1.989"cu in)
Power output: 3.2BHP @ 7,700
RPM range: 2,000-9,000
Weight w/o muffler: 1219 (43oz)
Suggested prop size: 20x8, 18x8

Moki 180

Bore: 34.9mm
Stroke: 30.9mm
Displacement: 1.8 cu in
Power output: 4.1BHP
RPM range: 1800-9,500
Weight w/o muffler: 1219 (41oz)

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

The Moki is stronger and more reliable. I would not hazard saying a percentage, however. I think many horsepower numbers and percentages of increase are BUNK. Many Super Tigers have a "strange" midrange, and can give some real trouble. Moki is very clean running from idle to top rpm. The Moki numbers are all based on 0% nitro also. I do not believe for a second that the Super Tiger will keep up with a Moki (prop for prop) at 0% to 10%. Many people have run the large Super Tigers with heavier nitro and less oil and had power gains, however. I'd say if you could get a Tiger to run on 20% nitro with the 10% to 12% lube, you may gain some rpm and put it a lot closer to a Moki, but all things even, Moki rules the big bore 2 stroke world.

THIS IS ALL OPINION BASED ON READING AND LISTENING. It's been years since I've run any big Tigers or Mokis.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

Moki all the way

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

My ST 3000, Zinger 18x8 @ 8400 on 3% nitro at 400' elev. 25% more? uh, no. That's my point. Oh...I do agree Moki is more powerful.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

I just wonder out of the people that have voted, who is currently running both. I am, and while the ST is not quite as powerful as the Moki, it is definitely not 25% under the Moki's power.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

Ilke I said before horsepower and percentages of increrase numbers are BUNK. But I do believe that the Moki will out pull the Tiger. It also is easier to get a good needle.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

In reailty, as long as the comparison criteria is fair, then the comparison is fair. Many manufacturers make up their own test criteria. Like testing a 46 2 stroke, and using a 9x6 prop. Sure, it will turn huge rpm with good horsepower, but reality is that aerobatics calls for a larger diameter, and racing calls for more pitch. So the horsepower numbers are worthless. I wish manufacturers would just say, 'We turned this prop at this rpm on this fuel.' Forget the horsepower all together. My Rossi 53 is rated at 2.2 horses and so is my YS 91. Does anyone really think the Rossi is a match for the YS? Not unless you're racing with a 9x9 prop. As for static thrust, as long as the data is entered into the same formula, then it's fair as well, but I would like to point out that that's not a "real" number either. It's a good "comparative" number, however.

Does anyone currently own both of these? Give them a fair run. Same prop, same fuel, and same day.

I'd bet a buck that the Moki will turn better anywhere in the 18 to 22 inch prop range.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

I started with a Fox 35 Stunt. It taught me what the scream of a way too lean engine sounds like, that's for sure. I re-read the poll, and I voted yes to start with. On paper, the difference is there. In the air where percentages seem to shrink, I'd have to say that the difference is much less noticable. I maintain that the Moki is stronger. To say there is a real world 25% difference would be this: The Super Tiger hovers at 100% power and the Moki hovers at 75% power. Power being actually a percentage of available rpm on any given prop. There is no way I'd say that was true.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

Now Now littlecrankshaf, where do you see a "flatfootedly" claim? What you see is a direct quote from the manufacturers. I don't claim the ST3000 is 3hp, Super Tiger via Tower Hobbies makes that claim. I don't claim the Moki 180 makes 4hp, Moki via Horizon Hobby makes that claim. If you even read the poll description you'll see I don't even use 25% in it, rather I simply ask people if they thought the Moki makes significantly more power than the ST3000.

BTW, 3 hp divided by 4.1 hp is .73. Subtract that from 1.0 and you get ~27, therefore, the Moki 180 is not 25% more powerful than the ST3000, it is 27% more powerful. Now, which manufacturer is inflating there products? Is Moki inflating the 180 or is Super Tiger deflating the ST3000?

In any case, I accept the challenge and will put both of these engines and the OS FX 1.60 on my PSP test stand in the next couple of months. We'll find out then which engine spins a prop better under the same conditions. (Of course this is not a real test because it doesn't test torque. You can only measure that with a spring-like device attached to the test stand -- don't have one.) It is my intention to adjust each engine for maximum rpm and back off 300 to prevent lean running. I will use the recommended fuel for each, i.e., Byrons ST Fuel for the ST3000 (have 2 gallons of that), Wildcat Extra Premium 15% for the OS FX 1.60, and Omega 5% for the Moki 190. What do you think I should use as a prop for this test -- thinking on using a 20x6 Zinger? That should be a good test for all three engines and will probably be the prop I'll end up with on my Moki on the 1/4-scale Cap.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

I owned a (older, but new) Supertigre 3000 and wound up putting an OS carb on it. It improved the overall engine operation, but I had very inconsistent results trying to get the darn thing started (by hand). Often I would just give up trying to start it. I sold it and bought a Moki 1.8. It starts every time (flip prop backwards against compression) with one or 2 flips. The Moki is more consistent in overall operation and I believe has more power.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

What I'm trying to say, is that by testing in an anything goes way, I think you can make any mathematical claim you'd like. Such as the 2.2 horse Rossi. Yes, on an 9x9 prop it turns about 18,000 rpm and has a high horsepower rating, but what does that mean in real terms. On paper, I guess the 25% claim can be proven, but in real world terms, I cannot say that the Moki can do ,at 75% power, what the Super Tiger can do at 100% power. I do still believe that it is a stronger engine, I just can't be comfortable giving a percentage of power difference without seeing them side by side. If I saw a same prop, same fuel, same day comparison that showed a vast difference, then I'd be happy to work the math and say a definate percentage. Often people who test engines intentionally use different props to keep manufacturers happy. Example: Brand A truned an APC 16x6 prop at 10,000 rpm. Brand B turned a Master Airscrew 16x6 at 10,300 rpm. That's a difference of x horsepower. Crapolla dude! The difference in prop efficiency alone makes that comparison worthless. ST 3000 vs Moki 180 with the same prop, same fuel, and same day is what I'd like to see. I'd still bet a buck that the Moki comes out on top, but I have no clue what percentage of difference there would be. Do I believe that the 25% difference is provable? Probably yes. Do I believe that the difference is real? Probably no.

Better yet, two planes one Moki powered and one Tiger powered. Same prop, fuel, and day. Let's have a tug of war! That would settle this real quick!

Moki vs. Super Tigre
 

I have owned several of each. The Super Tigre I would say is a truck engine. The Moki is a sports car engine.

I run ASP 1.08 carbs on my ST's and they run fine, but the Moki is quality. I have been to giant meets where I have flown 8 times and had 8 1-flip starts. I had one Moki that I never touched the low end-never. Compare that to screwing around with a Super Tigre carb.

Don't get me wrong, I like my Tigres. They chug along really well with a big, black, plastic Master Airscrew Classic 18-10. But to keep it American, a Chevy truck chugs along well, too, but a Corvette, it ain't. I've owned both of those, too.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

Jim, my point was about manufacturer's HP ratings and how you can't use them to compare engines. I think most people agree. I think if ST used the same testing criteria as Moki or vice versa, then the numbers would be much closer,...that's all I was saying.

Littlecrankshaf, thanks for correcting my hasty math re:36%

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

I agree, manufacturers are in business to sell stuff. They will say whatever makes them look best. I'd hazard a guess that most model engine buyers are younger males. We like horesepower! After some learning, however, it is not a fair representation of what the engine can do once on the front of the plane with a realistic prop. I also like Tigers. My club is pro-OS. Me and my Tigers have done just fine.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

The Tigre will swing the same prop as the Moki with authority (very close RPM), but where the Moki shines is in easier carb adjustments and a little quicker throttle response.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

Moki is better by far.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

moki much better all round but never 25%, and on the big stuff reliability is nearly more important than all out power.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

Go Moki, you will curse the day you ever saw a supertigre. The big tigres are the worst too

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

Got a moki 1.8 today and the compression is higher than my 10 year old St3000. I ran it, but it didn't turn any scary rpm's over the ST as I was told. I'll do a direct comparison soon. I don't expect I'll see a significant difference. My ST runs a perry pump and a OS 7D carb. I paid $50 for it last year and based on some opinions I guess, it kicks @$$ for ST.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

I've been breaking-in my Moki 1.8 these last couple days and I can tell you its an awsome! awsome engine! It loves to start wet, but after that, one flip or two everytime and it starts right up. I was taching with a Menz 18 x 8 wood prop @ 6,500 for my very very first tank through it running 5 turns out using FAI NO NITRO in it.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

That 18x8 is your break-in prop, I gather. My well used Moki was turning a MA scimitar (yuk) wood 18x10 at 8000. I'm trashing that prop asap and trying a 20-8 full prop.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

I plan on using the 18 x 8 for flying as well, its going in a H9 Edge 540

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

20x8 sounds a little big for the 1.8. Mine is very happy turning a Zinger 18x6-10, but it has also turned a Mejzlik 19x8. I think if you use a fat-blade 20x8 then you may be bogging the engine down too much. I'd like to hear how it goes.

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

Funny, that 18x6-10 is the same prop my ST was very happy with. The ST also turned a 20x8 Pro Zinger at about 7000. I figured and was hoping the Moki would do better! My ST numbers are in line with some 40 cc gas on RC FAQ. Can I sue hilleja if it doesn't? :D

Super Tiger vs Moki
 

I'm curiou, what cc is the SuperTigre?