Thanks edge! A Walkera #4 is on my list to the jolly fat guy this year! I've been playing with several heli's in Clearview Sim and found the fixed pitch to be just a boat load of fun. I have played with my neighbors Trex a couple more times and I can honestly say that I'm not ready for collective pitch I can hover it but what a handful! I really need to get my hands on a fixed pitch! Guess I'll have to be very good so the wife, I mean Santa will deliver