ORIGINAL: Chris Bergen
Well it'll take TWO pages, sorry...
We all know exactly what CCPM is, (what we are calling eCCPM) and what is not (what we call mCCPM and Non-CCPM) you are the one hung up on the pure definition of CCPM, Which we all agree on, but we call it eCCPM.
ORIGINAL: Chris Bergen
And again, my point is that there is NO mixing going on in my control system!!
And who is questioning the system in your helicopter? We are talking in general, providing several examples and you keep talking about the Intrepid. As I said before, I've never seen an Intrepid, so I can't comment about that one, But I bet that you have seen all of the helicopters we are providing as examples.
ORIGINAL: Chris Bergen
With a collective stick movement, the collective arms move the yoke straight up and down, moving the swash plate straight up and down, NOT mixing in any elevator (adding or removing elevator movement) to accomplish it. The aileron servo moves up and down with collective movement due to its position IN the collective arms, but is not mixing IN any aileron (adding or removing aileron movement) due to the position of the points of rotation for ALL the controls.
Right there is the perfect example of mCCPM. BY DESIGN the aileron servo is STRATEGICALLY placed IN THE COLLECTIVE ARM to have it move up and down with it. If you place the aileron servo anywhere else on the frames, it WILL NOT work the same. Who said that we are mixing aileron to collective? What if we are mixing collective to the aileron? Have you stopped to look at it from that angle?
Just like the older Miniature Aircraft helis, the aileron servo rocked back and forth with the movement of the collective servo, another perfect example of mCCPM. Even a step back further, I remember the servo arm provided in some helis, It got mounted to the top of the aileron servo. It had a hinge just above the servo wheel and 3 balls on top, the middle ball was for the collective servo, and the outer balls were for the aileron controls. Pretty ingenious way of MIXING collective into the system mechanically. The current perfect example a little more popular than the Intrepid is the Raptor. The aileron servo is also mounted on the collective arm and it moves up and down with it. If you change it's location it will not work the same, and it WILL HAVE to be converted to PURE CCPM (eCCPM)for it to work.
ORIGINAL: Chris Bergen
If you can refute, WITH documentation from a reliable source (wikipedia is NOT, LOL...), ANY of my arguments as presented, then I will concede and begin my advertising campaign that we now have a CCPM control system in the Intrepid Line of helicopters. Can you IMAGINE!!
A lot of people have said it before including you, CCPM flourished when it started being used as a marketing tool. As the manufacturer, it is up to you to use it or not. But the term mCCPM would not look good on the side of an Interpid box.
The problem is that the concept has evolved but the books have not. Other than Ray and some other people that gear their books to novices, who else has written a book about this stuff since 1987? Heck, I have one of the Paul Tradelius books, I happen to own two copies of different printings (circa 1989 and 1998), and it is basically the same book but with "updated" references to current models. So I sincerely believe that nobody has taken a FRESH look at this stuff for a while.
But Chris, You have not answered one of my questions, I'd hate to think that you are avoiding it:
Chris: Can we agree that there are three types of controls?
1. The pure electronic CCPM as you describe (as in the TRex),
2. the one that somehow mechanically, the swashplate moves up and down for collective control (as in the Raptor), and
3. the one where the washout base (or other parts of the head) is the one that controls the collective pitch angle, but the swashplate does not move up and down for collective control (as in the Kyosho Concept).
Can we at least agree that those are the 3 types of controls?
Rafael