This weekend we came close to having a bad accident at our field. A pilot was flying his plane, standing in the pilot box, where he was suppose to be doing everything right. Then it happened, an elderly gentlemen tried to take off. He lost it on the take off and hit the other pilot in the BACK of the head, prop missed his ear by less than an inch, knocking him over the fence. Of course the pilot dropped his Tx, and we could not get to him or it in time and he lost his plane. Now the situation arises. The elderly gentleman apoligized of course, but did not offer to do anything to help out with the lost plane. As a matter of fact he made the statement he was not able to afford fuel, much less a new plane. Now what?

Someone is owed a plane! Period! End of discussion!

Assuming your looking for opinions... He replaces the plane or he never flies there again period. He should also have to demonstrate flying ability and safety knowledge before flying again. period. If it was me he hit I would file a claim in small claims court. period. Harsh, you betcha

This is a simple case of responsibilities. The elderly gent is responsible for the actions and consequences of his aircraft. As the flying pilot was in the designated location for the control of his plane then he is totaly blameless. I would ask your president to put it to the elderly gent that the obligation of blame lies with him and he should make some form of retribution to the pilot who, through no fault of his own, lost his aircraft. It may seem a bit harsh, but if the gent is not capable of flying without assistance then he should go back to a buddy lead system.

I've wondered about how to handle something like this. I have heard it recommended that, if it is a club member, that approaching the older gentleman and requesting that he fly on a buddy box for a while would not be out of line. I just see myself standing in his shoes some day. I am hopeful that I would be smart enough to give it up on my own without being foreced to, and yes, I think he should take care of the lost plane, maybe it could be worked out over a time payment, or something similar.

If the elderly gentleman made the statement about not being able to afford fuel? Then why does he even have a airplane, as far as my opinion he should get the monetary of value of the plane lost or a plane in trade which he is satisfied. Whether, I have a fourstar 40 worth $200 or a Carden 40%er worth $6000 dollars I will expect the equal amount of money of the planes worth or a new plane,Simple end of discussion.... This situation is unique and this is just my opinion..... ,,, I do however differ in the case of lets say a midair or etc. you could argue that it is both pilots fault whether is was a bonehead move or not and both just call it even, but too the thread at hand this is my opinion.

That almost happened to me this weekend. And it was a madden flight for my new bird. I lost it for a good 30+ seconds when I finally found it in a slow turn.

30+ secs and it was still in the air........impressed

Couldn't he file an AMA claim????? He did injure somebody and caused proprty damage with his airplane. Isn't that what the insurance is for?

BTW, age has nothing to do with this, I see pilots of all ages get into these types of control loses and maybe they shouldn't be allowed to fly. Then again, how can I judge without being discrimitory? This is why we have the insurance, to allow everyone a chance to fly and take the risk. However, he really had to be way off coarse to get behind the pilot line. Another reason why I like to fly with a spotter when there are more than myself and another at the field.

It's sad, but I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.
It's always wise to stay alert to who is on the flight line. When a flyer in question appears that is a good time to land and run for the shelter house.

Just my opinion.

First some questions: Was the elderly pilot experienced? What kind of plane was he flying? Why did he lose control so badly? Did this happen at a field controlled by an AMA club?

My feeling is that flying a plane into another pilot is so serious an infraction that the club officers would have to get involved. I've seen guys put big planes into the ground because they were afraid of hitting another pilot. At very least, the club officers should have to meet with the elderly pilot, and discuss some consequences for his actions. To me, this does not fall in the "sh*t happens", let's forget about it.

A while back there was a long heated discussion on what to do when one pilot accidently shoots down another. I won't start that one again, but I think this incident underlines the need for well documented rules of behavior at the field. I think most clubs are in denial, just hoping nothing bad happens, and assuming they will deal with it as well as they can afterwards. To allow someone to just fly a plane into another pilot on the flight line is irresponsible.

This is clearly the older gentleman's fault.
AND, this is clearly a homeowners claim. The injured pilot needs to file a claim with the other guys insurance company, the AMA will only pay secondary in the event that the HO claim gets maxed, which is unlikely.
Homeowners coverage contains liability coverage for just this type of loss.
Since I own an insurance agency, I'm somewhat qualified to dispense this info, FWIW.

Maybe if he could not afford a new plane, maybe he does not have homeowners insurance either. Would the AMA kick in then?

Back after 30,
Thanks for the insurance update. Hope either the homeowners or AMA can settle the monetary issue. The hard part is trying to come up with ways to prevent it from happening again. Is there a need to move the pilot stations and/or offer more protection? Do we need to look at pilot qualifications? Qualifications of a safe plane? Inspections? Full time safety officers? Additional rules? Unfortunatly, we are in a high risk hobby, so whenever one of these incidents occurs, clubs all over must deal with answers to these questions. At times I really hate all the beaucracy and red tape myself as a secretary must have to deal with to keep a club chartered, on the other hand, our planes are machines capable of injury, and that it may be worth the extra time and effort to make sure all of our members and the public is protected by either putting steps in place to ensure a incident doesn't occure, and to be able to ease the pain in the event one does occure.

The AMA won't pay this claim, unless there is no homeowners policy in force. Since most homes are financed, the mortgage company will ensure that there is a policy in force, and if not it's just stupid to have a home without insurance..
Contrary to popular belief, the AMA is NOT an insurance carrier. They are a self insured Modeling organization, and as such only PAY SECONDARY to other insurance, and only then when the policy pays it's maxium policy limits, which normally runs about 100K for personal liability, which is included in the standard homeowner insurance policy.

Also, from personal observations I have found that older retired folks will say their broke at any mention of monetary obligation.
Meaning that their wife will kill them if they find out.

Just my two cents. I agree with the main line of comments on this one. Very glad to hear the person hit was not seriously injured. This nearly happened to me a few weeks back. I'm so thankful we have chain link fencing with galvanized post outlining each flight station. Hard to say if more rules or better rule enforcement are the issues here. Sounds like the pilot just lost it. As far as the liability, IMHO the answer seems pretty obvious. The person who caused the accident should replace the airplane. Very different from a mid-air where it's challenging at best to determine fault. But to hit another pilot and cause him to loose an airplane is another story.

It has almost happened to me on more than one occasion. The Gentleman should pay up, either by insurance or cash out of pocket. I guess it's a good thing he can't afford fuel, at least he won't be pulling that stunt anymore.

BackAfter30 -

I really appreciate your contibutions on threads like this one. It helps to have someone in the insurance business provide an informed response - you never know when it might come in handy.

Our field has a sign that reads along the lines that each flyer is responsible for damages he/she may incur to others and their planes.

I agree with the first HALF of your comment.
The second half is one of the reasons I don't like the club scene.
Someone is always eager to jump on the court system bandwagon!

What does the "club scene" have to do with the court system bandwagon? What would an "anti-clybber" do - bust the windows out of the old guy's car?

Clubs/

More people.
More chances for mishaps.
Differing personalities.
Look at it this way.

Your in your backyard flyin with your GOOD buddy... He makes a mistake and whacks ya in the head and ya crash your plane. Ya talk it over and go on with life.

Your in a club with 50 people.
A guy you barely know does the same.
You scream and yell and take him to court.

Well aim, all of us clubbers don' have a back yard big enough to fly in. What if your good buddy plants his plane through the roof of your house, you gonna laugh about and go have a beer?

Backafter30,
Just one clarification; the AMA is NOT self insured. They carry a policy with an insurance company. They were self insured many years ago, and are discussing the possible need for it again (due to escalating costs), but are not presently.

That older gentleman needs to be checked out on the controls. The plane should have been dumped (intentionally crashed) before it ever reached the other pilot. He's dangerous (elderly or not).
Dennis-

What else ya gonna do but have a beer and laugh about it.

I gaurantee you It wouldn't end up in court. (thats all I'm talkin about)