Hey everybody,
I'm having the damndest time landing this thing.. I mean I get it lined up ,looks good,touches the runway.This is when it get hairy!! It hits the the runway and bounces up and flips over!!![:@]
The gear seems very stiff. Is this whats getting me flipped over or is it me? Last weekend it bounced up stalled hit the spinner and it looked like it did a snap roll!!! Now thats 3D!!!
Later,
Frank

The Eagle is a PITA to land, isn't it. I've found that if you set her down early and just let it roll out straight, and I mean straight, without trying to slow her down by wagging the tail or doing any fancy anything, she'll eventually come to a halt. Other than that, I don't have any great deal of help I can give.

I'm used to landing my DP Extra,which lands very slowly. I guess I need to land it a little faster,or trust that it'll slow up and just let it plop down on the gear.
I talked to TNT landing gear and they said they can have a set made in 7-10 days.It'll have a little more of a rake to it,not as stiff either. maybe I'll go for that.
Frank

The CE wont land slow! Mine isnt too bad but You have to land it like a warbird! NO 3 pointers. Bring it in just a little fast, get it low and hold it just a few inches above the runway. Grease it in on the mains and let the tail settle.
The worst part about Pitt's and CE's..... takeoff and landing!

That's for true. I've read that landing gear with a 3" wider stance and 2" taller makes this bird land like a dream. Supposed to give it a better angle of attach when landing and the wider stance makes it more stable when it's on the ground. When I contacted TNT about making me a set, I think the number were like $75.00. I've kinda forgotten it for now and was waiting until I splatted these gears, but that hasn't happened yet.

No glide and flare with a biplane, you have to fly it in, fly until it is a couple inches(the few the better) from the runway and then chop the throttle and let it touch the ground, do not force the tail down, let it come down by it self. Remember a biplane has a mine of it own, you have to out smart them.

WOW! I built the Pitts with an OS 300 Super Gemnini Twin and most landings are three pointers. If you do not over control the rudder while taking off & landing, your ground experience will be much more enjoyable. Once you start chasing the tail, you will never catch up. Try dialing in some expo on the rudder and see it that helps.

I am building the CE now and will let everyone know how it compares to the Pitts.

Jake

I NEVER HAVE A CHANCE TO LET IT ROLL OUT. iT TOUCHES THE GROUND BOUNCES NOSE UP,THEN DOWN,FLIPS ON IT'S BACK..WE WILL SEE TOMARROW AT THE CLUB PICNIC. I HOPE I DO GOOD IN FRONT OF THE GUYS!!!![]
THANKS FOR ALL THE INPUT,
FRANK

I had a Byron 1/3 Pitts a dozen years or so ago and I'm still looking for a plane that lands as good as that did. Fly it to the ground at 1/4 throttle, chop the throttle within inches of the ground, flare to a 3 pointer, 25 foot roll out, done. I had about 150 flights with that bird and 149 #9-10 landings, the closest I've been able to come to it was a Goldberg Ultimate, both bipes, isn't that funny.

You have to land this plane like a warbied. Can't float it in. You must fly it to the ground at 1/4 throttle, then begin your flair, chop the throttle, and then just let the elevator run out from your flair. The plane is a beast and you must fly it like one.

the short tail moment, associated with the drag of the two wings, slower airspeed and a Cg optimised for aerobatics, here is your problem,,,you need more deflection of the control surfaces, and it is therefore way too easy to over control it. Those Pitts and Christen eagle are known to be dogs to land..I would suggest some expo also, to tame the overcontrol trend, bring low, a little hot and chop the power when in ground effect...This means a long approach maybe.
My old Byron Pitts was such a bear, back in 1978
Good flying
Al

I had some trouble first too, but eventually found the sweet spot. This thing also likes to bunny hop on you if you milk it to much and land slow. Another problem it has is that mentioned earlier, you have to let it roll out before trying to turn on the ground or it will nose over. Not nice on those expensive props. [&o]. I think the wheels catch the pants and it makes it do that when turning to fast.
Now, from what I am reading your problem seems to be that you might be still to fast on your touchdown which makes the Eagle bounce and then snap because now you lost airspeed due to that landing attempt. Try to hold it a little longer, but not until it drops by itself. You have to put it down with enough speed still. Takeoff is no problem with my one at all. Just hold a littl right rudder.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention. This thing hates cross wind.
I do love mine though, and would buy another one.

I have really enjoyed reading these responses and agree 100%. I have the Pitts with a DA-50 and found that getting a straight takeoff roll was very challenging. I have finally got it down, but at times still have to shut down and double back for a second attempt. I swear these things respond just like a Cub on take-off. The Pitts and the Eagle are not point it and rip it airplanes. There really is a fine touch required on the rudder and throttle to get a nice clean take-off roll. It takes a good bit of practice but it is dooable.

Landing. Once the bouncing dance begins it kind of gets into this ritual that isn't going to end until it's finished. I have found that keeping the power up with maybe just 2 clicks of throttle all the way down to just inches off the runway is the answer. You have to hold the elevator and not bounce it as well. If you cut the throttle say 3' to 5' off the runway she is going to drop out of the sky at about 1 foot and then the dance begins. The Pitts, and I suspect the Eagle as well likes to grease the tires. I have yet to have a noseover landing with mine.

I have had one deadstick that I caused by accidentally hitting the choke switch vs. the smoke switch. Guys, if your model weighs around 17-18 lbs. as mine does you really need to be ready for a dead stick on this bird. I had a full load of smoke oil and fuel totaling 48 oz. I had to be around 22 lbs at the time. I was downwind and survived with no damage, but it dropped like a rock. It was shocking! Fortunately I was about 100' altitude when it happend. The nose dropped at about 45 degrees and I had zero elevator resposne. I let the elevators go and tried again to pull out just before impact. The nose lifted just enough to get a tail high landing. It bounced once in the grass and then rolled about 20' to a stop. I was so lucky.

Well guys,
My landing today was with a couple of bounces. I gave it a couple clicks of throttle between bounces and she settled nicely. It's seems so fast coming in but like ya'll said got to fly it in all the way..
I was going to try another flight but the motor had a fuel problem and it was late in the day..
Again thanks for the replies
Frank

Are you guys landing on pavement? I would think grass would be much more forgiving

I've got maybe 20 flights on a paved runway. The most fun and the most effective landings that I have were on a dry lake bed. When you have to land this bird in a specific area like on a paved runway, everything has to be pretty precise for a good landing. When I went to the dry lake, knowing I had all the time in the world to get it right as well as all the room in the world for the run out, it seems I didn't even bounce it. It may be psychological, but I had a teriffic time flying when I didn't have to worry about landing. This, coupled with the fact that I didn't even have to worry about cross wind landings really let me concentrate on flying a lot more than worring abut landing.

Another trick you might try is, as soon as the wheels touch let go of the elevator. The tail will come up and hopefully it will stay on the ground. Works on a few of mine with this bad characteristic.

Over the years I have had several Pitts and Christen Eagle models and all of them were easy to take-off and land. The thing I see the most is that a lot of guys have way too much control throw on all the controls. Set your dual rates up to a lower rate for landing and that might help. Also a forward CG will cause some of the symtoms that Frank has. As far as approach speeds these do need to be flown a little faster but when you start the flair they bleed of speed pretty fast with the drag of two wings and struts and wires. As in full scale a good approach is the key to a good landing. Get everything lined up with on approach and touch down straight and landings become very easy. I also have over 350hrs in a full scale Eagle and Pitts S2B and they are very easy to take off and land even in a high crosswind situation. They fly with a very light touch but do turn into a beast with a hamhanded pilot. Don

Looking for a little more specific advice on the takeoffs. They scare the devil out of me. My first takeoff was kind of ok, took off a little slow. The next two takeoffs were really, really bad, they came back at me but I was able to get control of them and continue flying. I haven't taken the plane out since. Are you taking off under full power or something less? I am trying to ease in the throttle and keep it straight, but I must be bringing the power up too fast. ??????? Plane flies fine once it is in the air.

MY takeoffs are ok. Slowly advance throttle keep it straight. Im not sure what power setting im at.I think l'm pretty much at full power. You can't go full bore and go.. All you can do is practice,practice,practice..
Now if I can get my landings down I'll be good to go..
Frank

Guys

I have the GP Pitts with a Saito 300 twin in it. It weighs 16lbs.
I have never had a problem with takeoff. I advance the throttle and get the plane rolling, advance a bit more to get the tail up (maybe half), then then advance the throttle to flatout and rotate to verticle....yeeeehaaaa.

Sounds and looks cool..!

I only take the plane out every couple of months. So it takes me the first bounce to remember how to land it.

I line the Pitts up with a lot of height. (As in way too much) I chop the throttle and head straight for the end of the runway as if I am deadstick.
When I get over the end of the runway I pull up to level and the plane starts to slow. Holding elevator.....holding....holding.....I start to flare and start adding a bit of throttle.......3 pointer everytime.....I think the trick is to be patient.

Cheers

Buzz

Chuck - At first I thought it was me. Now I know that it was, but it's also the airplane[8D]. The short fuse on the Pitts or the Eagle, combined with the P- factor of a larger gas engine with a big yanking prop on the nose, and you have a formula for trouble, if you aren't prepared for it.

On my Pitts, when I start the take-off roll I never got to WOT until well into the roll. Well I should say I did go to WOT once........Won't do that gain. Conversely, you don't want to try and horse this thing off the ground under-powered. I immediately have to add R-rudder or it will veer hard left and then you can forget trying to correct. Once it's veered hard left it's better to abort and then set up to try again. Buzz is right about advancing the throttle slowly to get her rolling and then adding just enough so the tail comes up. By now you should have good rudder control, which is just so critical to offset the torque effect, and to keep the airplane going straight. All too often guys at this point still don't have control and they just let it rip. I've done it myself and it's very alarming. The plane veers hard left and hopefully you get airborne before going off the runway. This is an out of control take-off - been there done that. The problem occurs when guys try to over correct and then they get the plane going hard left and then hard right with a hot throttle. If you have done this then you know what the wild thing is.

Abort and keep trying over and over until you can control a straight roll down the runway. Try it on a day with no crosswind as this makes it much easier. I have worked on it enough now to be able take mine off in a crosswind as long as it's not too bad. It's also better to practice on a day that isn't real crowded so you can have the runway to yourself as much as possible. Don't get in a hurry by getting all tensed up and really focus on getting the feel for the rudder as you advance the throttle.

I know Pittsdriver has much experience with the Pitts/Eagle in full scale and RC scale This is just a different opinion on rudder throw. For me, I like my throws set a bit higher to know I have as much rudder as needed when it's needed. I use exponential to take the heavy thumb out and then try not to get to twitchy on the rudder. This has saved me a few times in a crosswind that attempts to push the tail around. I have used all the rudder I have to avoid going into the fence and was glad I had it.

One thing to check is that the airplane rolls straight. You should have a degree or so of tow in on the mains. Proper tecnique is to start the take off roll with full up elevator and as the throttle comes up relax the up elevator to neutral. Let the tail come up by itself and keep it straight with SMALL inputs of rudder. Put in just a little right rudder right as you come up on the throttle. Just like the real thing the model will take off fairly straight by itself, it gets squirrly when the pilot starts chasing it and overcontrols. Thats why I like to slow down the controls for TO and landing as it is so easy to overcontrol these airplanes. Proper crosswind technique is to hold the aileron into the wind and keep it straight with the rudder. On landing enough aileron into the wind to stop the drift and use opposite rudder to keep it straight. You just have to get that left thumb educated. Don

My CE does the dame thing on take off! The torque monster wants to go left. The problem is the rudder is very effective. Start your roll out, it will want to go left...very light R rudder. My first couple of takeoffs were hairy. In fact I dinged up the CF prop on the very first takeoff. Since then everything has been good. The Pitts and CE's are not forgiving.... You need to stay on your toes at all times.

OK guys, I've got well over 250 flights on a G/P Pitts with a Brison 3.2. I've also been flying R/C bipes of all types and sizes for a good many years and tears now.

Fact: The G/P Pits and Christen Eagles are darned hard to land at weights over 16 pounds. I don't care where the C/G is located. Low rate elevator as noted in the manual will not be enough if you are nose heavy. You MIGHT get lucky if you are tail heavy. A nose heavy plane will need the high rates used carefully for a good landing. Try taking the C/G back to the front edge of the aft cabane mount for a good starting point. Move aft from there.

I'm tellin ya that the longer and wider gear make a [b]HUGE[/b] difference in the way it lands. Better yet, change to a tire that you can adjust the air pressure in as well. It LOVES lower bounce tires. If you try nothing else, try a set of low bounce inflatable tires at LOW air pressure. Actually, almost flat works best.

Another thought is to invest in a set of Carbon Fiber gear. Expensive? You bet. But they flex better AND unload some of the weight the stock gear has. The stock gear have no reflex action if the plane weighs less that 20 pounds, or unless it drops straight down from about 15 feet. Don't try that. Even if you do, it's unlikely that you will damage the stock gear.