I have pretty recently soloed, and am looking for a good second plane, preferably a tail dragger. I have heard a lot about the Sig 4*40 being a good second plane, but what about the Sig Somethin' Extra? Which would provide for more growth as a flyer?
Thanks in advance for the help.

Personally after having owned and flown a SSE I would not recommend it as a second plane...a third perhaps but not a second. It is very lively, even on low rates so I would recommend something along the lines of a 4*40 or the 60 size. Get yourself a good handling low wing tail dragger, learn lots from it and then move up to a SE. The SE is like an egg beater on steroids...ha ha. The SSE is not really difficult to fly once you have some experience, it takes off and lands very nicely, recovers right now from spins etc but as I mentioned, it is very high spirited and could get you into trouble really fast if you were to start over correcting your inputs.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree

Cheers

Mike

I think that a properly setup, low control throws, forward CG and flat pitch prop, SE will make a good second airplane. The SE will have a more growth potential than a 4*40.

If you want to build something a little nicer that is a great second model with a lot of potential then you want a Bruce Tharpe Venture 60. This model isn't as well known as the 4* models, but it's a much better model. Check it out at www.btemodels.com

I wouldn't recomend the SSE as a second plane. It is a great third or fourth plane, but a bit too responsive for a second plane.
I'd recommend the 4*40. You can take a bit of the dihedrahl out of the wing and make it more responsive. It will still be very easy to fly and land.
I have a friend who got the SSE after he soloed on an LT-40. I told him not to do it, but he wouldn't listen. He made it past the first 3 or 4 flights, but he smacked it up really bad on the 5th flight. Total loss. It got ahead of him and he over-corrected too many times.
Even with a flat prop- it's just too much plane for a second plane. Most guys will use the 12.25"X3.75" APC with a 46 engine on this plane. Even that will not tone it down enough.

I soloed with my LT-40 and then I continued to fly it regularly for about a year. In that time, I learned inverted flight, rudder turns, flat turns, hammerheads, touch and goes, and even rolling circles(best way to learn how to do a rolling circle). I flew that trianer untill I was so bored with it that I just couldn't stand to fly it anymore.
THEN, I got out my Kadet Senoir that had aileorns and a 120 4-stroke. It was a taildragger. I learned the basics of the taildragger quickly and moved up to a Hobbico Britestar after about 3 months on the Kadet Senior. The Hobbico Britestar was my first low wing plane-- still a flatbottom airfoil, but a low winger.
After the Britestar, I got a Joss Stick. It was an ARC. I turned it upside down and made it a low wing taildragger. 120 4-stroke for power.
After the Joss stick, I built my first aerobat. A Lanier Laser 200 25% with an MDS 148. And I've been flying aerobats ever since.
The total timeframe for all this was about 3.5-4yrs. From the time I soloed on my LT-40 to the time I first flew my Laser 200 was about 4 yrs.
I'm a pretty decent pilot. No TOC champion, but a decent pilot now after 6 yrs in the hobby.
My point to all this is simply; TAKE YOUR TIME. Enjoy the building process. Enjoy flying different types of planes BEFORE you jump into a full tilt boogey aerobatic plane like the Sig Somethin' Extra. There's no rush. Rushing into an aerobatic plane like the SSE might just end up costing you a bunch of money.

I see this kind of question too many times...

Whats the rush, just enjoy learning to fly.

You probably won't believe this, but a better flying plane will not make you a better pilot, just the opposite, its more responsive, which makes it easier to perform manuevers.

I was getting ready to buy my second plane when a fellow club member (who happens to be a very good pilot) asked me why. Of course I said that I was ready to move up, I did all I could do with the trainer. Then, he asked me to show him what I could do.I took it up, flew inverted, hammerheads, rolls, etc.. then he took control of my LT-40 and began to do some rolling circles, rolling loops, etc..

At that point I decided that there is still life in the old trainer, flew the snot out of it (could even hand it on the prop, knife edge still kinda sucks tho), then I bought what most people would consider a third plane (no problem, my skills are adequate).

There is some stigma attached to trainers, that they are 'labeled' as newbies. and as soon as you soloe'd time to move up

We have a few well seaseoned pilots who can do wonders with thier LT-40s. they fly them better than some others with the Caps, Extras, etc.. OK, Knife edges are a little funny looking.. But if you can do it with a trainer, you'll definietly do it with an Extra!!

The 4* series were designed just for that, as the sencond 'intermediate' plane. personally, I love my 4* 60. I think it's one of the best planes I've built and flown.

Another thought for the 2nd plane is teh GP SLow Poke. Flys super slow, and is predictable. Some say it makes a good trainer too!!

No, if your skills are sharp enough, and you are very confident with your flying ability, the SSE can be a good 2nd plane, but it is a very big step from a trainer. It can be done, but have your instructor beside you for the 'just in case'

I wouldn't consider the somethin' extra the best second plane, but if you tone it down when you start out you should be okay. In my humble opinion though a 4*40 or 4*60 are the best choices for a second plane.

H9P51D,

I bet that SSE you use to have was sure pretty.

Michael

I think the SSE can be an great second plane. It lands very slow and has great stall characteristics. Just don't move from the trainer until you can do all it is capable of tho.I recently had a student that moved to quater scale Cap for a second plane and is now DDDing pretty good. So it all depends on you and how comfortable you are with what YOU are flying.

My second plane was a SSE. I think that if you are a compotent flyer you should be ok. Just make sure you have low rates.

I built a Sig SE and have been flying it all season. I went from a trainer to a World Model Sport 40. I flew that all last year. I also have a Zagi 400 which I have been flying for 2 years. I think the SE is not a good second plane. I think a 4* of the WM sport 40 would be much better. Landing slow is not always a good thing. When you go from a plane that is very stable then go to one that floats in and if I even think to put up elevator or an aileron adjustment on a landing and have it really respond, you won't believe haw responsive it is. I would have been out of my league on a SE if it was my second plane. The fact is most people I see at the field that have soloed go out and get a second plane straight away. They get it together and start to fly it. Most are not ready. Yes they can fly but still lack in skills. I was that way, but the plane I got helped me learn and did not scare the crap out of me. If you have the money, go ahead and get a Cap or a SE or something very aerobatic. It may survive. You may do well with it. The advice that you got above is a better way to go. Fly your trainer until you can do almost anything with it. Then ease into a less aerobatic plane. I love my WM Sport 40. I fly it often. I don't think of it as a bad choice or a compromise. The fact is if you are in this for the long haul, you will acquire all kinds of planes and diversity is part of the fun of it. Take your time, have fun!!

I just buddy boxed a 10 year old with a se a few more lessons and he should be on his own. He already is landing by him self. I have had two of these planes one the arf and the other a kit. They slow way down for landings. And the stall is a mush straight fowards. Just set it up exactly as the book says and you will love it! This plane will definitly grow with you as you become more seasoned pilot.
PS. The plane will hang with a OS 46FX [sm=spinnyeyes.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

Now how would you know mine was a pretty SSE boo hoo....at least I know that it went to a good home that would appreciate it!

Mike

Personally I can't say enough good things about the SE, it was a great second plane for me. My son just got signed off flying his SE cause the trainer we were using was the clubs and we had to give it up. 3 flights on the SE and he got signed off.

I have a 4* 40 and I don't like it nearly as much as the SE, just personal preference and flying style I suppose. I think what is more important than everyone's opinion is honestly evaluating what kind of pilot are you? I have seen people that are moving on to a second plane that think they are "ready" and I would not have signed them off if I were there instructor. On the other hand, my son for example, continues to amaze everyone at the club as to the natural ability he has to "see" and "feel" the plane............

A great second plane that in my opinion can do everything for your confidence, take away ALL fear of doing inverted flight, and some aerobatics...........the ZAGI 400X. Stuff it in the ground?????? Oh well, pick it up and throw it back in the air.....best of all when you get comfortable with it you can probably find a local group to fly combat with

Anyhow, now you got my .02 as well

I flew a SSE for a second plane, accidently took off and landed on HIGH rates !!! I was about ready to put it up...WOW high rates, I thought it was too much plane..I checked radio..put on low rates and flew a good 20 or so times before my first bang...invert 3/4 throttle into the ground...rebuilt...torque roll...engine stall...flat spin into trees..no SSE any more.[]

My second plane is a Sig 4* 40 and I had 9 flights with it, transition from a trainer to a low wing plane is a great feeling, I am sure that I could learn more things with my Trainer like rolling circles, and etc. but for the motivation having a better looking and more capable plane is more fun to fly. Flying the trainer was no fun for me to the end.

here is my 4*40
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/My_n...1120607/tm.htm

I am now feeling comforatble with the 4*40 with 46FX,knowing I can handle it on ground and in air. But I am still flying at 2 mistake height and low rates. With the last flight I increased the aileron low rate from 40% to 55%, there is a lot of way to go, high rates and 46FX is too fast me. I will take my time and learn as much as I can with it.

But good combination, knowing that you have power to get out of trouble is good, even though I fly mostly at 1/2 throttle. Landing take-off, flying was easier than my trainer.

Just my opinion.

SE as a 2nd plane? It might depend on what you flew first and how long you flew it. I'd recommend an SE as a second plane as long as you're not an idiot with it.

[ul][*] It's got an almost stall proof wing.[*] takes off nice[*] lands like a feather
[/ul]

Well I've read most of these posts and figured I'd put in my 2 cents. The SE is an awesome little sport plane. Is it a good second plane for you? Well ask yourself these questions:

1. Do you feel comfortable flying less than two mistakes high?

2. How about down on the deck. Do you feel comfortable flying near the deck where there's little margin for error (takeoff, landing, and floating around don't count)?

2. Are you comfortable flying with the most travel your trainer surfaces will give (and no dual rates or expo)? I mean wringing the plane to the point that you wonder how much more it can take.

3. Can you feel the characteristics of your plane? IE: plane snaps a little faster with some left rudder.........while inverted plane rights itself quicker to the left .................................................. .........(just hypothetical stuff here).

If you answered yes without a doubt to all of these questions, I would say that you're ready for the SE as a second plane. Most beginners I've worked with can't handle the low aileron rates in the book (unless they've changed in the last three years). As a safety margin, put the low rate travel from the book as the high rate on your radio. Then, dull it down some more for the low rate on your radio.

If you find yourself not ready, don't dispair. If you're too bored with you're trainer, move the CG back 1 inch and it will be more interesting. If you're really brave, keep moving the CG in 1 inch increments until you have a HANDFULL . Hope this helps, sorry for the long post.

My second plane was a SSE after flying a trainer for 30 days. I live 5 mins from our flying field, am retired and flew 6-10 times per week for that 30 days. Low rates are mandatory on the SSE to start with. On high rates it was a handful using an OS 50 engine. Did I mention my 4th plane and 5th plane were also SSE's. They were all ARF's. My 6th plane was a SSE kit. When it bit the dust I went to a RAZZLE with a Saito 72. It flies slower, has more capablilty, is bigger, cheaper and easier to see. Maybe the SSE isn't such a good second plane after all.

I am going to maiden my SSE that I got from H9P51. I have set the control horns on the lowest throw (elevator and aileron) and have about -35%expo. Any other suggestions for taming this beast? I have been flying a 4*60 for the past two months with good sucess. I hope I am ready for the SSE. Your comments please, gentlemen.

Michael

I would recommend the tiger .60 from goldberg first. Once your comfortable with that, then I'd say shoot for the SSE.

Hi Michael,

When are you going to maiden it?

I would have someone with you just in case. Is this a kit or ARF?
I have one and it really rolls fast and it goes where you point it.
Make sure your balance it on and your engine is running well.

Good Luck

When you get it up in the air you will Know LOL
The best addvice i can give you and it applies to any new
plane you have not flew. Take it easy with her(NO FAST MOVEMENT
ON THE STICKS). Remember what your throttle is for. If things
get alittle hairy throttle back to a comfortable speed.
Only you know weather you are ready or not to fly the SE.

Hi Redwing,

The SSE is from a kit. It was bought from H9P51 who did a great job with it. He has flown it and balanced it. It has a Irvine 53 2s in it. I would like to maiden it tomorrow, you going to be there? I figure there should be some of the more experienced pilots there. Hopefully the wind will die down otherwise it will stay in the back of my Explorer. Tuesday night some of the really good pilots will be at the field so I will bring it if it does not work out tomorrow. Is the Goldberg 60 that much different from the 4*60?? I thought they were similar in ability. I am flying inverted with my 4*, also doing rolls, loops, cubans, reverse cubans, immelmans and hammerheads (not necesarily pretty). I guess at some point you have to give it a go.

Michael[sm=thumbup.gif]

I want to go flying tomorrow. I hope the winds are down too.
I will PM you.

Bill