Announcing RCAPA
06-28-2004, 07:23 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wimberley,
TX
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Announcing RCAPA
As many of you know, we've been discussing the possibility of government regulation of our activities. To this end we have been working on the forming of this association. By the 2nd week in June, the name of [link=http://www.rcapa.net]Remote Control Aerial Photography Association[/link] [link=http://www.rcapa.net]( RCAPA)[/link] was decided and work began on a webpage. This association is intended as a not-for-profit organization with a web site to provide the following:
1. Most significantly to serve as a professional "group" to obtain general liability insurance for our flight operations.
2. Act as spokesperson entity to answer to agencies when questions arise.
3. Serve as a clearing house for resources available to us as aerial photographers.
4. Provide a specialized forum for open discussion of our activities, legal issues, and ways to solve these problems.
5. Provide generalized guidlines for aerial photography flight operations.
6. Develop a list of aerial photographers by locale.
We would very much like to encourage input from all the members here - your opinion is valuable to us. We do NOT wish to add another layer of beauracracy, but to act as public forum that will provide a unified voice. We believe that if we establish some common sense guidlines to provide for some self regulation then we hope to be treated much the same way HAM'ers have been by the FCC.
There is another organization just forming as of Friday called Remote Aerial Photography Association (RAPA) and is at HELICAM They are aimed primarily at helicopter aerial photography, which in our opinion, carries significantly more risk than lightweight, fixed wing AP operations. As might be expected, their suggested guidlines are significantly more restrictive due to that inherent risk.
Our intent is to promote the use of remote control aerial photography and welcome all platforms for aircraft to kites to ballons. By producing a record of safe flight operations, we should be able to negotiate reasonable insurance rates for our efforts. The website is under construction, but I encourage all to go visit. We are deciding what forum software to use so that will be coming soon.
We do NOT intend to take away from either this forum or the one on Ezone as our primary goal is ultimately to find/provide a source of general liability insurance for those interested in pursuing AP as more than just a hobby.
It's all up to us.
Gene (CenTexFlyer)
1. Most significantly to serve as a professional "group" to obtain general liability insurance for our flight operations.
2. Act as spokesperson entity to answer to agencies when questions arise.
3. Serve as a clearing house for resources available to us as aerial photographers.
4. Provide a specialized forum for open discussion of our activities, legal issues, and ways to solve these problems.
5. Provide generalized guidlines for aerial photography flight operations.
6. Develop a list of aerial photographers by locale.
We would very much like to encourage input from all the members here - your opinion is valuable to us. We do NOT wish to add another layer of beauracracy, but to act as public forum that will provide a unified voice. We believe that if we establish some common sense guidlines to provide for some self regulation then we hope to be treated much the same way HAM'ers have been by the FCC.
There is another organization just forming as of Friday called Remote Aerial Photography Association (RAPA) and is at HELICAM They are aimed primarily at helicopter aerial photography, which in our opinion, carries significantly more risk than lightweight, fixed wing AP operations. As might be expected, their suggested guidlines are significantly more restrictive due to that inherent risk.
Our intent is to promote the use of remote control aerial photography and welcome all platforms for aircraft to kites to ballons. By producing a record of safe flight operations, we should be able to negotiate reasonable insurance rates for our efforts. The website is under construction, but I encourage all to go visit. We are deciding what forum software to use so that will be coming soon.
We do NOT intend to take away from either this forum or the one on Ezone as our primary goal is ultimately to find/provide a source of general liability insurance for those interested in pursuing AP as more than just a hobby.
It's all up to us.
Gene (CenTexFlyer)
12-21-2004, 11:57 AM
#3
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: La Mesa,
CA
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Group,
It is interesting to note the date of the original post that started this thread. It does seem to indicate that RCAPA.NET predates rcapa.org by several months. Wonder how Rich can still say he was first to use the name? No disrepect is intended towards Rich at all, just asking a valid question that to date has never been answered.
Joe Bennett
It is interesting to note the date of the original post that started this thread. It does seem to indicate that RCAPA.NET predates rcapa.org by several months. Wonder how Rich can still say he was first to use the name? No disrepect is intended towards Rich at all, just asking a valid question that to date has never been answered.
Joe Bennett
12-22-2004, 09:23 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
I can confirm the original name was conceived long ago. Gene and I have discussed this topic many times. Insurance issues is the main reason why my flight activitives have been limited this year. Unless we can demonstrate considerable and lengthy record(s) of safe AV flights... we will continue to have a difficult time finding insurance. I am all for the organization of the RCAPA. We must earn the right to perform AV in a safe manner.
Gene, Here's a suggestion I wanted to mention. As the flight mass of our birds decreases, the potential for damage and harm will also decrease. I have some small light birds and a few heavy expensive birds. Both need to be considered. Perhaps different "mass" platforms could carry specific guidelines.
Rob
Gene, Here's a suggestion I wanted to mention. As the flight mass of our birds decreases, the potential for damage and harm will also decrease. I have some small light birds and a few heavy expensive birds. Both need to be considered. Perhaps different "mass" platforms could carry specific guidelines.
Rob
12-23-2004, 02:07 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: rcapa.net Sacramento,
CA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Posted by CenTexFlyer 0n 6/28/04
As many of you know, we've been discussing the possibility of government regulation of our activities. To this end we have been working on the forming of this association. By the 2nd week in June, the name of Remote Control Aerial Photography Association ( RCAPA) was decided and work began on a webpage. This association is intended as a not-for-profit organization with a web site to provide the following:
1. Most significantly to serve as a professional "group" to obtain general liability insurance for our flight operations.
2. Act as spokesperson entity to answer to agencies when questions arise.
3. Serve as a clearing house for resources available to us as aerial photographers.
4. Provide a specialized forum for open discussion of our activities, legal issues, and ways to solve these problems.
5. Provide generalized guidlines for aerial photography flight operations.
6. Develop a list of aerial photographers by locale.
What we have accomplished in under 6 months.
1. Done
2. Made contact, currently trying to formulate game plan
3. We put the message and information out.
4. Done
5. Done
6. Done (U.S.) working on other countries.
As many of you know, we've been discussing the possibility of government regulation of our activities. To this end we have been working on the forming of this association. By the 2nd week in June, the name of Remote Control Aerial Photography Association ( RCAPA) was decided and work began on a webpage. This association is intended as a not-for-profit organization with a web site to provide the following:
1. Most significantly to serve as a professional "group" to obtain general liability insurance for our flight operations.
2. Act as spokesperson entity to answer to agencies when questions arise.
3. Serve as a clearing house for resources available to us as aerial photographers.
4. Provide a specialized forum for open discussion of our activities, legal issues, and ways to solve these problems.
5. Provide generalized guidlines for aerial photography flight operations.
6. Develop a list of aerial photographers by locale.
What we have accomplished in under 6 months.
1. Done
2. Made contact, currently trying to formulate game plan
3. We put the message and information out.
4. Done
5. Done
6. Done (U.S.) working on other countries.
12-30-2004, 04:52 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: rcapa.net Sacramento,
CA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
I don’t know how many of you guys may have checked out RCAP.NET follow the link to http://www.rcapa.net We are trying to rally the troops so we can attend the ASTM meeting this May with are act in order. The ASTM has formed the F38 committee on UAV’s and will make recommendation to the FAA about regulating the future of commercial RC aerial photography. Our membership goal for the year is almost met. I would appreciate if you would take a look if you already haven’t. I would also appreciate if you joined as the more members we have the better standing we have. Thanks in advance, Patrick Egan
01-03-2005, 09:44 AM
#8
Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Derry,
NH
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Hi,
Just to correct a few misrepresentations made here.
The Remote Aerial Photography Association (RAPA) is not only for heli operators. We represent all remote (or remote control if you prefer) aerial platforms, kites, balloons, fixed wing, rotory wing, blimps, masts, etc.
RAPA was originally started under the domain name www.helicam.org later we picked up www.rcapa.org in an attempt to try to clear up the misconception that we are a heli only group. Both domain names point to the same content.
Feel free to check out the Remote Aerial Photography Association pages and our forum at www.helicam.org or if you prefer www.rcapa.org
If you are interested in professional or commercial aerial photography consider this your open invitation to stop by and get involved.
Just to correct a few misrepresentations made here.
The Remote Aerial Photography Association (RAPA) is not only for heli operators. We represent all remote (or remote control if you prefer) aerial platforms, kites, balloons, fixed wing, rotory wing, blimps, masts, etc.
RAPA was originally started under the domain name www.helicam.org later we picked up www.rcapa.org in an attempt to try to clear up the misconception that we are a heli only group. Both domain names point to the same content.
Feel free to check out the Remote Aerial Photography Association pages and our forum at www.helicam.org or if you prefer www.rcapa.org
If you are interested in professional or commercial aerial photography consider this your open invitation to stop by and get involved.
01-04-2005, 03:57 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: rcapa.net Sacramento,
CA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Hey Rich,
Thanks for clearing things up for everyone. Now with your post and the information contained in this thread it will be plain to everyone that you hijacked the RCAPA.NET name. You have stated in other forums you didn’t know about RCAPA.NET but if one looks at your join date and the threads first post date things don’t add up.
Thanks again, Patrick Egan
[link]http://www.rcapa.net[/link]
Thanks for clearing things up for everyone. Now with your post and the information contained in this thread it will be plain to everyone that you hijacked the RCAPA.NET name. You have stated in other forums you didn’t know about RCAPA.NET but if one looks at your join date and the threads first post date things don’t add up.
Thanks again, Patrick Egan
[link]http://www.rcapa.net[/link]
01-04-2005, 04:33 PM
#10
Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Derry,
NH
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Patrick,
I'm sorry but you must be assuming too much.
Yes, I've been a member here at RCU for some time, but unfortunately, as much as I would like to, I don't get to read every post.
I only recently saw this post and replied to it as it contained some misrepresentations about the Remote Aerial Photography Association which originally was using the domain name www.helicam.org and then later also registered the domain name www.rcapa.org to help alleviate the misconception that RAPA is a heli only organization. In fact, I didn't even notice the date of the first post in this thread until you pointed it out. Now that you point it out, this gives more data to the fact that that your group knew of the Remote Aerial Photography Association and simply morphed that name into something very similar sounding.
RAPA members could run around and create a lot of postings saying 'you stole our name', but we haven't done that. We think it's more important to work together as professionals as there are many more important issues going on.
This is not the place to debate such things. I only replied to clear up the misconceptions which were being created about RAPA (The Remote Aerial Photography Association).
I still welcome everyone to try to work together for the benefit of all commercial/professional operators.
Happy New Year and I hope w can find a way to all work together to further aerial photography.
I'm sorry but you must be assuming too much.
Yes, I've been a member here at RCU for some time, but unfortunately, as much as I would like to, I don't get to read every post.
I only recently saw this post and replied to it as it contained some misrepresentations about the Remote Aerial Photography Association which originally was using the domain name www.helicam.org and then later also registered the domain name www.rcapa.org to help alleviate the misconception that RAPA is a heli only organization. In fact, I didn't even notice the date of the first post in this thread until you pointed it out. Now that you point it out, this gives more data to the fact that that your group knew of the Remote Aerial Photography Association and simply morphed that name into something very similar sounding.
RAPA members could run around and create a lot of postings saying 'you stole our name', but we haven't done that. We think it's more important to work together as professionals as there are many more important issues going on.
This is not the place to debate such things. I only replied to clear up the misconceptions which were being created about RAPA (The Remote Aerial Photography Association).
I still welcome everyone to try to work together for the benefit of all commercial/professional operators.
Happy New Year and I hope w can find a way to all work together to further aerial photography.
01-04-2005, 06:13 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: rcapa.net Sacramento,
CA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Rich I'm not assuming anything (extremone)
They could if they wanted to look stupid,
I did a rather quick search of the "Whois" website http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/index.jhtml and found that RCAPA.NET was registered on 21 June 2004 at 23:02:45 and that RCAPA. ORG was registered on 10 Sept. 2004 at 06:45:15. So it appears that Rick had the RCAPA (Remote Control Aerial Photography Association) MONTHS before the other group did. They can cry and scream all they like now, but the proof is there for all to see, they blatantly ripped off the RCAPA name without regards as to who originally registered it. The extension (Net verses Org) has nothing to do with the usage and appropriation of the EXACT name, RCAPA.
I read the email you sent to Darkoverlord I must admit the content didn't suggest let's work together! If you are truly interested in a workable solution I would suggest you stop using our name and then we can get on with the business at hand (ASTM).
Olive branch extended, Patrick Egan
RAPA members could run around and create a lot of postings saying 'you stole our name', but we haven't done that. We think it's more important to work together as professionals as there are many more important issues going on.
I did a rather quick search of the "Whois" website http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/index.jhtml and found that RCAPA.NET was registered on 21 June 2004 at 23:02:45 and that RCAPA. ORG was registered on 10 Sept. 2004 at 06:45:15. So it appears that Rick had the RCAPA (Remote Control Aerial Photography Association) MONTHS before the other group did. They can cry and scream all they like now, but the proof is there for all to see, they blatantly ripped off the RCAPA name without regards as to who originally registered it. The extension (Net verses Org) has nothing to do with the usage and appropriation of the EXACT name, RCAPA.
I read the email you sent to Darkoverlord I must admit the content didn't suggest let's work together! If you are truly interested in a workable solution I would suggest you stop using our name and then we can get on with the business at hand (ASTM).
Olive branch extended, Patrick Egan
01-05-2005, 09:46 AM
#12
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Kyle, TX
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Man I am really confused now!! Just because Helicam.org and RAPA were reistered by IMRICH that gives him the right to use the exact same name as RCAPA because he was "first" with Helicam.org?... Those names are nothing alike... almost like COKE buying a PEPSI.org URL and claiming that they had the first soft drink and should get any name they wanted by default.
To IMRICH, You have stated here and in other forums that the name ripoff/hijack/bootleg/copy WHATEVER you wanna call it was "Purley Coincidental"
and unintentional..... Are you saying that when you purchased the RCAPA.org URL that you in fact DID NOT look at the other names(.net,.com,.biz,.us) that were registered????
Myron
To IMRICH, You have stated here and in other forums that the name ripoff/hijack/bootleg/copy WHATEVER you wanna call it was "Purley Coincidental"
and unintentional..... Are you saying that when you purchased the RCAPA.org URL that you in fact DID NOT look at the other names(.net,.com,.biz,.us) that were registered????
Myron
01-05-2005, 11:39 AM
#13
Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Derry,
NH
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Myron, Patrick,
Yes, that is correct. When we registered rcapa.org we only looked at what .ORG domains were available. We were not interested in .com, .net, .us, .biz or any other tld, but we wanted to restrict our search to .org. Why is that so hard to understand? This happened while I was talking with another member when we were discussing how people tend to think that we are a heli only oriented group because of our domain name. While we were talking we were trying different domain names in the .ORG tld and found that RCAPA.org was available, so I registered it as it was available at the time. The thought process was that the terms 'remote', 'remote control' and 'RC' are often used interchangeably so that rcapa.org would be a good alternative to helicam.org for the Remote Aerial Photography Association and would better represent the fact that we were not oriented toward any particular aerial platform.
The Remote Aerial Photography Association is the name of the organization, not helicam.org or rcapa.org, those are simply domain names which point to the RAPA web site. This is no different than the Academy of Model Aeronautics using the domain name modelaviation.org, sometimes you simply can't get a domain name that matches the acronym for your organization.
You keep mentioning that you checked the domain name registration dates as an example as to the creation date of RAPA. Please be sure to check helicam.org as this was the domain name the Remote Aerial Photography Association was using from the beginning. We later picked up rcapa.org as explained above. As we are a growing young organization we did not start with a domain name that exactly matches our organization name, but did the best we could considering the circumstances. A lot of groups have domain names that do not match exactly their full entity name and have alternate domain names which also lead to the main web site.
Everything the RAPA group has done has been to try to promote commercial/professional remote (or if you prefer remote control) aerial photography without regard to aerial platform.
I honestly believe that the best thing would be for us to find a way to work together.
As I explained to Rick, when we created the Remote Aerial Photography Association, we had no knowledge of any other group. You have all seen the naming threads on the RR forum so you know how our name came about. Rick and Gene have already admitted that they knew of us when they started the remote control aerial photography association and decided to morph our name into theirs. They have freely admitted this on many forums and is mentioned here in the first message. So I find it hard to believe that you claim that we stole 'your' name when in fact, Rick and Gene morphed our name to create their group. In fact, had Rick and Gene registered rcapa.org, then it would not be available to us at the time we were searching, and we would have used one of the alternate domain names which we were considering. This is why I say it's simply a coincidence. I don't see how and why you keep claiming that we stole your name. I've explained this all before and now I'm doing it again. Given the facts in this post one could see a case where Rick stole the Remote Aerial Photography Association name, but we would rather find a way to work together than to start friction with fellow aerial photography operators.
So please stop accusing RAPA of trying to rip off the remote control aerial photography association. We were never aware of your existence until Rick stopped by and made a posting on our forum. I had a phone call with Rick and he also told me that he knew of us when he named his group. When I asked him why he didn't at least let us know of his existence, his answer was 'you are a heli group, I didn't think you would be interested'. I made it clear to him that we were not heli oriented, and that all aerial platforms are welcome.
I asked Rick if we could find a way to work together, perhaps mirroring each others site or what ever else we could do to work together. Nothing further has come of it. The phone call had to be cut short because I had another business call come in which I couldn't ignore, and I apologiezed and asked Rick to get back in touch with me. I never heard from him again. He has my phone number and is welcome to call me at anytime. He certainly has my contact information as I can see that he logs into our forum about once a week at a minimum.
As to my email to Dark Overlord, he came to our forum and did nothing but argue with members and post inflammatory messages. This is directly against our terms of use agreement. I left it in Joe's hands to get back to me if he honestly wanted to be an active member of the group. I offered to unban Joe from our forum if he would agree to our terms of service. Instead of working with us, he chose to send my email to others. Which isn't a very nice thing to do at a minimum.
I don't think it's appropriate to discuss this here on RCU as this has nothing to do with RCU, but since you asked I thought I'd answer, again my intentions were to clarify misconceptions that you are spreading about the Remote Aerial Photography Association (RAPA). You are welcome to promote your alternate group as much as you would like, but please do not make misrepresentations about the Remote Aerial Photography Association (RAPA).
Please help us find a way to unite and to work together. It can only benefit all.
Yes, that is correct. When we registered rcapa.org we only looked at what .ORG domains were available. We were not interested in .com, .net, .us, .biz or any other tld, but we wanted to restrict our search to .org. Why is that so hard to understand? This happened while I was talking with another member when we were discussing how people tend to think that we are a heli only oriented group because of our domain name. While we were talking we were trying different domain names in the .ORG tld and found that RCAPA.org was available, so I registered it as it was available at the time. The thought process was that the terms 'remote', 'remote control' and 'RC' are often used interchangeably so that rcapa.org would be a good alternative to helicam.org for the Remote Aerial Photography Association and would better represent the fact that we were not oriented toward any particular aerial platform.
The Remote Aerial Photography Association is the name of the organization, not helicam.org or rcapa.org, those are simply domain names which point to the RAPA web site. This is no different than the Academy of Model Aeronautics using the domain name modelaviation.org, sometimes you simply can't get a domain name that matches the acronym for your organization.
You keep mentioning that you checked the domain name registration dates as an example as to the creation date of RAPA. Please be sure to check helicam.org as this was the domain name the Remote Aerial Photography Association was using from the beginning. We later picked up rcapa.org as explained above. As we are a growing young organization we did not start with a domain name that exactly matches our organization name, but did the best we could considering the circumstances. A lot of groups have domain names that do not match exactly their full entity name and have alternate domain names which also lead to the main web site.
Everything the RAPA group has done has been to try to promote commercial/professional remote (or if you prefer remote control) aerial photography without regard to aerial platform.
I honestly believe that the best thing would be for us to find a way to work together.
As I explained to Rick, when we created the Remote Aerial Photography Association, we had no knowledge of any other group. You have all seen the naming threads on the RR forum so you know how our name came about. Rick and Gene have already admitted that they knew of us when they started the remote control aerial photography association and decided to morph our name into theirs. They have freely admitted this on many forums and is mentioned here in the first message. So I find it hard to believe that you claim that we stole 'your' name when in fact, Rick and Gene morphed our name to create their group. In fact, had Rick and Gene registered rcapa.org, then it would not be available to us at the time we were searching, and we would have used one of the alternate domain names which we were considering. This is why I say it's simply a coincidence. I don't see how and why you keep claiming that we stole your name. I've explained this all before and now I'm doing it again. Given the facts in this post one could see a case where Rick stole the Remote Aerial Photography Association name, but we would rather find a way to work together than to start friction with fellow aerial photography operators.
So please stop accusing RAPA of trying to rip off the remote control aerial photography association. We were never aware of your existence until Rick stopped by and made a posting on our forum. I had a phone call with Rick and he also told me that he knew of us when he named his group. When I asked him why he didn't at least let us know of his existence, his answer was 'you are a heli group, I didn't think you would be interested'. I made it clear to him that we were not heli oriented, and that all aerial platforms are welcome.
I asked Rick if we could find a way to work together, perhaps mirroring each others site or what ever else we could do to work together. Nothing further has come of it. The phone call had to be cut short because I had another business call come in which I couldn't ignore, and I apologiezed and asked Rick to get back in touch with me. I never heard from him again. He has my phone number and is welcome to call me at anytime. He certainly has my contact information as I can see that he logs into our forum about once a week at a minimum.
As to my email to Dark Overlord, he came to our forum and did nothing but argue with members and post inflammatory messages. This is directly against our terms of use agreement. I left it in Joe's hands to get back to me if he honestly wanted to be an active member of the group. I offered to unban Joe from our forum if he would agree to our terms of service. Instead of working with us, he chose to send my email to others. Which isn't a very nice thing to do at a minimum.
I don't think it's appropriate to discuss this here on RCU as this has nothing to do with RCU, but since you asked I thought I'd answer, again my intentions were to clarify misconceptions that you are spreading about the Remote Aerial Photography Association (RAPA). You are welcome to promote your alternate group as much as you would like, but please do not make misrepresentations about the Remote Aerial Photography Association (RAPA).
Please help us find a way to unite and to work together. It can only benefit all.
01-05-2005, 01:06 PM
#14
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: saint joseph,
MO
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Here we go again, the us versus them mentality. 
Why is it that no matter what you are involved in, whether it's motorcycles, model planes, even horse shows for crying out loud it's always the same? One bunch trying to control or upset the other bunch, ad infinitum ad nauseum.
Seems to me that since one domain name was registered before the other one and if they have proof, it would behove the latter to change domain names, otherwise this whole thing is just going to start one HUGE flaming war. It doesn't matter one wit whether one is an ORG or one is a COM, it's going to lead to a lot of confusion and missrepresentation and opens up the door for even a little swindling.
If one group can prove that they had the basic name, org or com notwithstanding, it would fall to the one that registered the name last to correct the confusion by registering another completely different name, otherwise this will never end until one gives up and goes away.
In the meantime it will just turn off a whole bunch of prospective members and serve no usefull purpose to either side.
Just my two centavos. BTW, I'm not promoting either side in this. I don't really have any desire to join either organization, and until this matter is resolved I don't think I have any inclination to. I've got enough hobbies that involve child like mentalities. I don't need another one.
Why is it that no matter what you are involved in, whether it's motorcycles, model planes, even horse shows for crying out loud it's always the same? One bunch trying to control or upset the other bunch, ad infinitum ad nauseum. Seems to me that since one domain name was registered before the other one and if they have proof, it would behove the latter to change domain names, otherwise this whole thing is just going to start one HUGE flaming war. It doesn't matter one wit whether one is an ORG or one is a COM, it's going to lead to a lot of confusion and missrepresentation and opens up the door for even a little swindling.
If one group can prove that they had the basic name, org or com notwithstanding, it would fall to the one that registered the name last to correct the confusion by registering another completely different name, otherwise this will never end until one gives up and goes away.
In the meantime it will just turn off a whole bunch of prospective members and serve no usefull purpose to either side.
Just my two centavos. BTW, I'm not promoting either side in this. I don't really have any desire to join either organization, and until this matter is resolved I don't think I have any inclination to. I've got enough hobbies that involve child like mentalities. I don't need another one.
01-05-2005, 01:12 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: rcapa.net Sacramento,
CA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Available Top Level Domains
I checked the list and tested to see what top level domains are available under these secondary level names (hopefully I didn't make any typos):
UNHI - .net .org .info .ws .us .cc .biz .tv .bz
WHIRL - .ws .tv .bz
RAPA - .cc .tv .bz
UHA - NONE! all gone!
PHPH - .ws .cc .tv
RAIA - .ws .biz .cc .tv .bz
WWHF - .info .ws .biz .cc .us .bz .tv
ACA - NONE! all gone!
ACOA - .cc .bz
HELICAM - .ws .cc .bz (I already have .ORG which we can use for this)
---
Rich
I don’t see any RCAPA in there and as far as the May thing goes you already had helicam.org as you tried to get Helicam.com but it was already taken by a U.K. company. The first post in your forum is almost to the day of RCAPA.NET in June. So let me understand you, what your saying is it took you till the middle September to figure out a new acronym? This all seems highly unlikely as we had the same members in both groups before September. Your fact’s don’t support your argument Rich. In any case we exist and all you are doing is creating more confusion and wasting time. A simple and immediate solution would be for you organization to cease using the RCAPA name in anyway. If you are truly interested in solving this dilemma I will be emailing you my phone# and I will do my best to be objective as it pertains to a solution.
Regards, Patrick Egan
I checked the list and tested to see what top level domains are available under these secondary level names (hopefully I didn't make any typos):
UNHI - .net .org .info .ws .us .cc .biz .tv .bz
WHIRL - .ws .tv .bz
RAPA - .cc .tv .bz
UHA - NONE! all gone!
PHPH - .ws .cc .tv
RAIA - .ws .biz .cc .tv .bz
WWHF - .info .ws .biz .cc .us .bz .tv
ACA - NONE! all gone!
ACOA - .cc .bz
HELICAM - .ws .cc .bz (I already have .ORG which we can use for this)
---
Rich
I don’t see any RCAPA in there and as far as the May thing goes you already had helicam.org as you tried to get Helicam.com but it was already taken by a U.K. company. The first post in your forum is almost to the day of RCAPA.NET in June. So let me understand you, what your saying is it took you till the middle September to figure out a new acronym? This all seems highly unlikely as we had the same members in both groups before September. Your fact’s don’t support your argument Rich. In any case we exist and all you are doing is creating more confusion and wasting time. A simple and immediate solution would be for you organization to cease using the RCAPA name in anyway. If you are truly interested in solving this dilemma I will be emailing you my phone# and I will do my best to be objective as it pertains to a solution.
Regards, Patrick Egan
01-05-2005, 03:09 PM
#16
Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Derry,
NH
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Randall,
I apologize for subjecting you to this and I'll try to refrain from more of it. This group has admitted to taking the name of the Remote Aerial Photography Association (as shown in the first message of this thread) and morphed it into a very similar sounding name, yet it's members keep arguing that RAPA stole their name, when in fact it was the other way around. I'd prefer not not get into a flame war about that even though the data here clearly shows what they have done, yet they accuse us of doing just what they have done.
I'd rather find a way to work together than to argue over such things.
I only posted here to try to clear up the misconceptions that they have spread that the Remote Aerial Photography Association is a heli oriented group. They are welcome to promote their own group as much as they like, but I hope they will not try to represent the original RAPA group with such misrepresentations.
I apologize for subjecting you to this and I'll try to refrain from more of it. This group has admitted to taking the name of the Remote Aerial Photography Association (as shown in the first message of this thread) and morphed it into a very similar sounding name, yet it's members keep arguing that RAPA stole their name, when in fact it was the other way around. I'd prefer not not get into a flame war about that even though the data here clearly shows what they have done, yet they accuse us of doing just what they have done.
I'd rather find a way to work together than to argue over such things.
I only posted here to try to clear up the misconceptions that they have spread that the Remote Aerial Photography Association is a heli oriented group. They are welcome to promote their own group as much as they like, but I hope they will not try to represent the original RAPA group with such misrepresentations.
01-05-2005, 05:32 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: rcapa.net Sacramento,
CA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Rich,
You don’t make sense still just grasping at straws. Randall pointed it out to you and I guess you missed it. Anyway I have offered up a logical solution that you cease using our name, simple enough! I have made repeated attempts to talk with you on the phone or email or whatever as of yet I am still waiting for a reply. Unfortunately it looks like Randall and others will have to endure “it” because you are not interested in speaking about “it” in private.
Regards, Patrick
You don’t make sense still just grasping at straws. Randall pointed it out to you and I guess you missed it. Anyway I have offered up a logical solution that you cease using our name, simple enough! I have made repeated attempts to talk with you on the phone or email or whatever as of yet I am still waiting for a reply. Unfortunately it looks like Randall and others will have to endure “it” because you are not interested in speaking about “it” in private.
Regards, Patrick
01-05-2005, 09:55 PM
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wimberley,
TX
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
ORIGINAL: ImRich
This group has admitted to taking the name of the Remote Aerial Photography Association (as shown in the first message of this thread) and morphed it into a very similar sounding name, yet it's members keep arguing that RAPA stole their name, when in fact it was the other way around.
This group has admitted to taking the name of the Remote Aerial Photography Association (as shown in the first message of this thread) and morphed it into a very similar sounding name, yet it's members keep arguing that RAPA stole their name, when in fact it was the other way around.
Your forum is and continues to be aimed at helicopters. I suggest you play to your strength and lobby for that special interest group and we will cater to ours. You could easily change to HAPA or something similar and it would more accurately reflect where interest lies and this would be settled. If that can't happen, then I would request that you NOT put forth that a majority of us are in agreement to general AP guidelines that you have established around the use of rotorwings. This is just not the case.
Gene
RCAPA #2
01-06-2005, 02:16 PM
#19
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Kyle, TX
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
IMRich,
The quote below was taken from your website.. How did you know RAPA was taken and why did you change?.. I guess you looked when you went to register the url and you didnt want people to get you confused with RAPA(Retired Airliles Pilots Assoc). Maybe I am not web savvy, but I am a decent shopper and I think before I buy, plus I will do a little research to boot... It really blows my mind that when you purchased .org you didnt look at the other RCAPA sites. You state below that you did alot of thinking. Seems that a little research would have gone with it.... Maybe I am just not seeing things the way you do... Look at it like this... You fly Helis... VERY EXPENSIVE helis, would you go buy a gyro or radio or or digital servo without getting the real skinny on its performance? Probabaly not....
Unfortunately it is too late to come up with a new name(for both or either group) that all could be equally represented by since both groups have already made contact with the FAA. I personaly feel that .NET was done wrong and that will never change. If I was the one putting all the effort into maintaining the .NET or .ORG sites(RICK,GENE,RICH) I would certainly be trying to find a way that both groups could co-exist... My solution would be for .ORG to stop using the RCAPA name and focus on the HELICAM and RAPA names, Does one group really need 3 names?... Once that is done, I would work with the other group to become a larger stronger group by maybe blending the names into a common linked site.... After all, the main thing is for the consumer and the FAA to see a well put together site and a well organized group.. The consumer doesnt care what type of aircraft is used and the FAA wants to make sure that we operate in a safe manner in reguards to everyone.
Myron
Rich
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Last Visit: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Location: New Hampshire
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:30 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, i've been doing a lot of thinking about this.
Since RAPA.org was taken, I came up with and registered RCAPA.ORG.
So if you go to www.rcapa.org you should land here too.
I think this domain name is more indicitive or who we have become, so feel free to refer to this site as either www.helicam.org or www.rcapa.org
In case you need to ask, RCAPA stand for Remote Control Aerial Photography Association which is the long winded version of RAPA.
Should we rename RAPA to RCAPA to maintain and highlight "RC" which is, after all, our true roots?
_________________
Rich (rcapa.org / helicam.org webmaster)
Please help to spread the word about RAPA!
Don't forget to upload a few of your 'best work' photo's to our gallery.
The quote below was taken from your website.. How did you know RAPA was taken and why did you change?.. I guess you looked when you went to register the url and you didnt want people to get you confused with RAPA(Retired Airliles Pilots Assoc). Maybe I am not web savvy, but I am a decent shopper and I think before I buy, plus I will do a little research to boot... It really blows my mind that when you purchased .org you didnt look at the other RCAPA sites. You state below that you did alot of thinking. Seems that a little research would have gone with it.... Maybe I am just not seeing things the way you do... Look at it like this... You fly Helis... VERY EXPENSIVE helis, would you go buy a gyro or radio or or digital servo without getting the real skinny on its performance? Probabaly not....
Unfortunately it is too late to come up with a new name(for both or either group) that all could be equally represented by since both groups have already made contact with the FAA. I personaly feel that .NET was done wrong and that will never change. If I was the one putting all the effort into maintaining the .NET or .ORG sites(RICK,GENE,RICH) I would certainly be trying to find a way that both groups could co-exist... My solution would be for .ORG to stop using the RCAPA name and focus on the HELICAM and RAPA names, Does one group really need 3 names?... Once that is done, I would work with the other group to become a larger stronger group by maybe blending the names into a common linked site.... After all, the main thing is for the consumer and the FAA to see a well put together site and a well organized group.. The consumer doesnt care what type of aircraft is used and the FAA wants to make sure that we operate in a safe manner in reguards to everyone.
Myron
Rich
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Last Visit: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Location: New Hampshire
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:30 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, i've been doing a lot of thinking about this.
Since RAPA.org was taken, I came up with and registered RCAPA.ORG.
So if you go to www.rcapa.org you should land here too.
I think this domain name is more indicitive or who we have become, so feel free to refer to this site as either www.helicam.org or www.rcapa.org
In case you need to ask, RCAPA stand for Remote Control Aerial Photography Association which is the long winded version of RAPA.
Should we rename RAPA to RCAPA to maintain and highlight "RC" which is, after all, our true roots?
_________________
Rich (rcapa.org / helicam.org webmaster)
Please help to spread the word about RAPA!
Don't forget to upload a few of your 'best work' photo's to our gallery.
01-06-2005, 06:43 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: rcapa.net Sacramento,
CA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
RCAPA Update-
I talked to Rich today and offered up simple and logic solutions unfortunately Rich is not open to any of my suggestions. He suggested that we stop using his name "RCAPA". In a nutshell our conversation ended with me leaving it up to him to present a logical solution. As far as I’m concerd at this point we are at impasse and I refuse to waste anymore time on these shenanigans as there is much (ASTM) work to do.
Patrick
I talked to Rich today and offered up simple and logic solutions unfortunately Rich is not open to any of my suggestions. He suggested that we stop using his name "RCAPA". In a nutshell our conversation ended with me leaving it up to him to present a logical solution. As far as I’m concerd at this point we are at impasse and I refuse to waste anymore time on these shenanigans as there is much (ASTM) work to do.
Patrick
01-06-2005, 07:37 PM
#21
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Port Orchard,
WA
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Couple things here as a concerned Aerial Photographer..
First....
Myron be careful what you wish for it just may come true. 
Second....
Patrick a lot of this has come about from you stirring the pot again...This was actually sliding away to the back of the pile till this past week, but that is ok it needs to be dealt with just not with name calling and demands.
RCU is not the place for this really. This has no bearing on the groups here as Aerial Photography is not a big thing here.
I just want to bring a little "new" light to this so I can help people that may be looking at this facet of the hobby something other than bickering to read.
Rick of RCAPA and I spent an hour on the phone today. We came to some pretty good conclusions and have some great ideas to make this all work. See above...
I ask you guys that are participating here to just let this rest here for a bit. Let's not bicker back and forth on here.
Come to www.RCAPA.org or www.RCAPA.net and discuss it there.
We can work this out and we CAN make a great organization out of it. It just takes time and understanding.
v/r
Jason
First....
Once that is done, I would work with the other group to become a larger stronger group by maybe blending the names into a common linked site.... After all, the main thing is for the consumer and the FAA to see a well put together site and a well organized group.. The consumer doesnt care what type of aircraft is used and the FAA wants to make sure that we operate in a safe manner in reguards to everyone.
Second....
Patrick a lot of this has come about from you stirring the pot again...This was actually sliding away to the back of the pile till this past week, but that is ok it needs to be dealt with just not with name calling and demands.
RCU is not the place for this really. This has no bearing on the groups here as Aerial Photography is not a big thing here.
I just want to bring a little "new" light to this so I can help people that may be looking at this facet of the hobby something other than bickering to read.
Rick of RCAPA and I spent an hour on the phone today. We came to some pretty good conclusions and have some great ideas to make this all work. See above...
I ask you guys that are participating here to just let this rest here for a bit. Let's not bicker back and forth on here.
Come to www.RCAPA.org or www.RCAPA.net and discuss it there.
We can work this out and we CAN make a great organization out of it. It just takes time and understanding.
v/r
Jason
01-06-2005, 07:39 PM
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wimberley,
TX
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Unfortunately Patrick, we can't afford to allow Mr. Rich to continue offering up things to the FAA when he is ready to pretty much give up the farm and roll over for whatever the FAA wants to come up with. He's proven that in his first contact with them which WAS posted on his site somewhere.
We must remain vigilant and ensure that viable considerations are presented to the FAA.
It is my opinion that we cannot trust him to do that.
Gene
We must remain vigilant and ensure that viable considerations are presented to the FAA.
It is my opinion that we cannot trust him to do that.
Gene
01-09-2005, 10:55 AM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: rcapa.net Sacramento,
CA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
Remote control aerial photography association update-
Good news, we are currently in negotiations to merge the two groups or at least work together in cooperation to deal with the ASTM and FAA.
It can be likened to pulling teeth but we are making headway. As a byproduct of this people from both groups have joined together in the effort of hammering out a solution. So if you had reservation in the past do to confusion it’s time to take a new look.
Gene I share some of your concerns but if Rich is willing to make concessions on the name issue we in turn have to show some good faith. More importantly work has started by members from both groups addressing the ASTM and FAA thing. So all I can ask is to keep an open mind and we’ll see what happens. Patrick
Good news, we are currently in negotiations to merge the two groups or at least work together in cooperation to deal with the ASTM and FAA.
It can be likened to pulling teeth but we are making headway. As a byproduct of this people from both groups have joined together in the effort of hammering out a solution. So if you had reservation in the past do to confusion it’s time to take a new look.
Gene I share some of your concerns but if Rich is willing to make concessions on the name issue we in turn have to show some good faith. More importantly work has started by members from both groups addressing the ASTM and FAA thing. So all I can ask is to keep an open mind and we’ll see what happens. Patrick
01-09-2005, 05:53 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Broomfield,
CO,
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
I've visited both websites and each seems to hold some merit. Without beating a dead horse here (Ok, I'll beat it just a little bit) a combined organization can only serve us better.
To that end, I would suggest that anyone that is seriously committed to the AP communities best interests would form a non-profit organization to promote our interests.
A non-profit organization would serve a number of useful purposes:
1) It would represent the proverbial "skin in the game" for all the guys hopping around here trying to be "THE" organization for AP enthusiasts. The directors of a non-profit are indicated by name in corporate paperwork. Are YOU willing put your name to paper?
2) a non-profit corporation will have a lot more clout in front of the FAA than a loose knit group of AP enthusiasts.
3) a non-profit corporation can collect and spend money in the organizations interest. That means sending qualified representatives to represent us in front of ASTM, FCC, FAA or whoever. To be blunt, I'd rather send the best person to do the job rather than the guy who can afford to pay his own way. Sometimes these aren't the same person (I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular, just making an observation). I think you'll also find more people and corporations willing to write a check to "RCAPA" than "Joe AP Flyer".
4) Lastly, a non-profit must have at least 3 directors, and it can have more. As a group I think we would be best served by a cross section of enthusiasts serving on the board, who must vote on actions to be taken by the organization.
I'm sure there will be arguments against this idea, not the least of which is the cost and complexity. John F. Kennedy said ""We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone..."
I would suggest that the person or persons willing to tackle this challenge are the right ones to represent us.
Regards,
Bill
To that end, I would suggest that anyone that is seriously committed to the AP communities best interests would form a non-profit organization to promote our interests.
A non-profit organization would serve a number of useful purposes:
1) It would represent the proverbial "skin in the game" for all the guys hopping around here trying to be "THE" organization for AP enthusiasts. The directors of a non-profit are indicated by name in corporate paperwork. Are YOU willing put your name to paper?
2) a non-profit corporation will have a lot more clout in front of the FAA than a loose knit group of AP enthusiasts.
3) a non-profit corporation can collect and spend money in the organizations interest. That means sending qualified representatives to represent us in front of ASTM, FCC, FAA or whoever. To be blunt, I'd rather send the best person to do the job rather than the guy who can afford to pay his own way. Sometimes these aren't the same person (I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular, just making an observation). I think you'll also find more people and corporations willing to write a check to "RCAPA" than "Joe AP Flyer".
4) Lastly, a non-profit must have at least 3 directors, and it can have more. As a group I think we would be best served by a cross section of enthusiasts serving on the board, who must vote on actions to be taken by the organization.
I'm sure there will be arguments against this idea, not the least of which is the cost and complexity. John F. Kennedy said ""We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone..."
I would suggest that the person or persons willing to tackle this challenge are the right ones to represent us.
Regards,
Bill
01-19-2005, 12:30 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: rcapa.net Sacramento,
CA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Announcing RCAPA
We www.RCAPA.Net have taken up this challenge. Not even three weeks since the first of the year and we have gained 60+ new members. In those three weeks the association’s members pledged and the money was raised to join the ASTM as an association. An important milestone for RCAPA.net as it demonstrates that it’s members are willing to put their money were their mouth is. Meanwhile the officers have filed for the articles of incorporation and are moving forward with the paperwork necessary for 501 c3 status. Obtaining 501 c3 status from the IRS is no easy task as it takes time (10 to 12 months) lots of paper work and thousands of dollars. Directors have been chosen and the framework has begun on our agenda for the ASTM meetings in May. Without a doubt much work remains to be done in a very short amount of time so join and participate.
