Notices
Aerial Photography and Video Discuss the growing field of aerial photography and aerial video right here!

Pusher AP plane build thread

Old 11-26-2005, 02:06 AM
  #1  
Skycam41
Thread Starter
 
Skycam41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lethbridge, AB, CANADA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Pusher AP plane build thread

Firstly, let me say that this build is inspired by W4UAV & kd70st. I have been looking for "my" ideal AP plane after trying a few conventional looking planes I was looking for something that I figured would be AP perfect. I am posting this on RCU rather than RCG because it will be a slimer rather than an electric plane. The reason I call this the ideal AP design is because of its configuration as a pusher, nothing in the fuse that will get in the way of the camera view, such as a spinning prop, landing gear etc. No thrown up debris into the camera from the prop was another advantage. With a fuse that for the most part is a cargo hold I deemed it suitable for carrying all kinds of gear. I also like the looks of the plane as something different

Having said all that, my plans are for this plane to carry a 6mp Panasonic FX9 camera and wireless A/V equipment for downlink. The power plant is a new Irvine .53 which to this date is my favourite engine, powerful, quiet and cool looking! The wing will be a modified LT40 70" with 900sq" of area. The wing will be built flat with no dihedral and for transportation reasons the twin boom assembly will be made so that it can be removed. I have built many kits and ARF's but never a 1/2 scratch build (the wing kit is from Sig). With much help from the above mentioned folks I will endevor to log my progress and take pictures for anyone interested. I have absoultely no experience in designing so if you see me heading for trouble yell at me! At times the progress will be fast and others it will be slower so hang in there....winter is long and cold here in Canada.

So tonight I pinned the first peices to the board and called it quits after getting home late from watching the new Harry Potter movie....which I highly recommend BTW..."Bloody Hell" as Ron Wiesely put it
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	He97095.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	140.4 KB
ID:	360399   Click image for larger version

Name:	To44827.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	120.6 KB
ID:	360400  
Old 11-26-2005, 07:03 AM
  #2  
W4UAV
Senior Member
 
W4UAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

It will be a rewarding experience, trust me. Im almost finished with another twin boom pusher Im building just for flying. It uses a 40 size wing thats been lying around from two crashes of two seperate trainer planes. Each time the wing comes out unscathed! Its almost like its waiting to be built onto a real plane, well, it got its wish.
We will help all we can, this should be fun.

Now get to building!
Mike
Old 11-26-2005, 12:10 PM
  #3  
kd7ost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nampa, ID,
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Looks like a great start Skycam41. I realize taking pictures is the end goal in AP, but I for one like to follow development with new platforms too. Any time a pilot stands out from the ranks of aluminum channel and foam wings, I'm interested.

Dan
Old 11-26-2005, 02:03 PM
  #4  
Skycam41
Thread Starter
 
Skycam41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lethbridge, AB, CANADA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

ORIGINAL: kd7ost

Any time a pilot stands out from the ranks of aluminum channel and foam wings, I'm interested.

Dan
I'm sorry but I just about pee'd myself laughing so hard at that sentance
Old 11-26-2005, 02:07 PM
  #5  
W4UAV
Senior Member
 
W4UAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Yeah, balsa and I have a love/hate thing going. I hate it and it loves to break on me, but I still like working with it over anything else. Ill punish a piece or section of balsa that gives me trouble by drowning it in epoxy...
Old 11-26-2005, 02:20 PM
  #6  
kd7ost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nampa, ID,
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Yes, building is a lot of fun for some. Just an FYI to the foam and aluminum guys, I didn't mean any offence to anyone. I just appreciate building too.

Dan
Old 11-26-2005, 11:53 PM
  #7  
Skycam41
Thread Starter
 
Skycam41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lethbridge, AB, CANADA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Been busy today! First thing that I have come to respect is a good "kit" especially after building a couple of Bruce Tharpe's which are the Rolls Royce of kits.

Here is the fuse, mostly done, a few sticks here and there yet, the landing gear plate (not here yet), complete the nose and so forth.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ax72926.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	42.8 KB
ID:	360777   Click image for larger version

Name:	Xs57367.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	44.2 KB
ID:	360778  
Old 11-27-2005, 12:10 AM
  #8  
randall1959
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
 
randall1959's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: saint joseph, MO
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Coming along nicely mate
Old 11-27-2005, 09:22 AM
  #9  
W4UAV
Senior Member
 
W4UAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Yes sir, VERY nice! I never thought to skeletonize the floor too, with the ribbing being close like that, itll be plenty strong enough, and without the solid floor youve lightened it up considerably also.
Mike
Old 11-27-2005, 10:19 AM
  #10  
Skycam41
Thread Starter
 
Skycam41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lethbridge, AB, CANADA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Mike, I think you have just answered my next question with your post. I was thinking of sheeting the plane but if you think it will be strong enough with the stick frame work then I can leave it as it is. I must admit, this has been lots of fun to build and if it flies well I will be really "proud."

My only concern is going to be weight distribution seeing as it will be like a see saw with the twin boom style tail. I guess I can worry about that once everything is framed up and experiment putting gear here and there.

I do have a question about the location of the fuel tank. All the planes I have built to date have had the fuel tank located in front of the CG. How is this going to effect the balance with the fuel tank behind the CG as with a full tank it will be slightly tail heavy and as the fuel burns off this will change the CG slightly nose heavy. I could locate the tank right on the CG but it would require 12" of fuel tubing which I would think would be too far for a non pumped engine.....any thoughts?

Thanks for the encouragement guys.
Old 11-27-2005, 10:46 AM
  #11  
W4UAV
Senior Member
 
W4UAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Put it on the CG, if you develop fuel flow problems, install a header tank near the firewall, I dont think youll have problems, I just did a test on my new twin boom and had about 12" of fuel line to the engine, it took a little priming but once it got going it was fine. You'll have plenty of pressure from the Irvine 53.

Yes initially youre going to think the plane will never be balanced with the engine and tail booms behind the CG, but as you add your receiver pack to the nose, (I have a couple lying around, different capacities, different weights) and youll be putting in the camera gear to just forward of the CG, calculate all the weight you will be carrying around all the time, the camera, transmitter and its battery and put those in there and youll see itll balance out, youll find this way if you have to balance it one way or the other itll only take a small amount to balance it on the CG. When I did the first flight of Grey Ghost I put two huge 2000 mah packs in the front because I hadnt put in the camera gear yet, when I did add it, I just removed one of the packs and it was fine.

Mike
Old 11-27-2005, 11:35 AM
  #12  
Skycam41
Thread Starter
 
Skycam41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lethbridge, AB, CANADA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Thanks Mike for the help with the tank location...I can get a huge tank in that space I plan on using a 3W video TX from [link=http://www.microcameras.com/video_transmitters/3watt_24ghz_transmitter.htm]micro cameras[/link] for my down link. I also will have a 12v 480 line Sony bullet cam in the nose for video (this will be a take in and out as needed fixture). I am tossing the idea around of using a 7" portable DVD player/monitor or installing the eyetop centra's into a pair of Zuirch glasses as the stock Eyetop's are pure crap but the little video screen does give a good picture. I know a lot of AP guys are buying from BW but I do want to add that I have been extremely impressed with Mark at Micro Camera's and his service has been incredible.
Old 11-27-2005, 12:59 PM
  #13  
kd7ost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nampa, ID,
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

I would echo Mike's recommendation but I don't have his or Tucraver's experience with doing this with a glow engine. I think Scott used a Perry micro oscillating pump at the engine to maintain fuel flow. But Scott is using a 4 stroke glow engine. (This would be an excellent application for a YS engine and it's pressurized fuel system) I have a 1 quart tank sitting right under the center of lift. I have about 18 inches of fuel line but my engine is gasoline. The Walbro carb pulls the fuel from anywhere and tank location is a non issue. I have a vent line on the tank as well but no pressure line. Clean and simple. This might sound goofy to hear, but don't forget to face the tank away from your engine. Forward facing. You can load up with a full tank though and trim doesn't change as fuel is consumed.

I ended up with no weight anywhere to balance things out. I made a long fuselage though to provide a long moment (lever arm) in front of what I knew was going to be pretty tail heavy. It has a lot of space to shift things forward and back to balance things out. When I check balance on my plane I only sit about 2 degrees nose down from the center of lift at the main wing spar.

You guys saw pictures of my plane. I have all slab sides. It has been great to have them. But, I have all the other gear in there too. It has allowed me to glue mounting rails anywhere in the fuselage where I need to mount gear. It was pretty instrumental in getting both Camera's mounted, hatches built in, clam shell top hatch built in, GPS mounted, shifting battery pack around etc.

I don't think it will hurt to have some light sheeting on the bones. I think Mike went with a full sheeted fuselage too. Stop and imagine the plane all finished. Then imagine how you will build in needed hatches, access to camera, how that mounts inside the plane and what it mounts to. An open structure like you have is strong and light. But only if it is left intact. Once you cut into it to open up an area it weakens. Bracing around the cut might be an impractical fit and get in the way of your open area. Sheeted area's capture the same strength in all the same axes as a braced structure but also allow twisting forces to be much greater. You can also put hatches in it quite easily without doing too much to weaken the structural integrity.

Just blabbering here. Most any thing works provided you use sound building practices and you certainly are doing that as evidenced by the pictures. Just think of your end use and how easily you’ll be able to manage any changes in the finished version once you want to start moving things around.

Is that structure balsa or spruce? I see the bar codes on some wood and I don’t see that on Balsa down here.

Dan
Old 11-27-2005, 01:07 PM
  #14  
kd7ost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nampa, ID,
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Pictures of Dan's fuselage
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Db83882.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	46.9 KB
ID:	360948   Click image for larger version

Name:	Zu66392.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	50.4 KB
ID:	360949   Click image for larger version

Name:	Jo29894.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	44.3 KB
ID:	360950  
Old 11-27-2005, 01:15 PM
  #15  
Skycam41
Thread Starter
 
Skycam41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lethbridge, AB, CANADA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Sound advice Dan. Interesting you mention trying to visualise the completed plane as that is where I am at now. One of pet peeves with using a converted plane to AP was the stinking access to all the electronic gear, it was at times a real PITA. I am taking a close look at Mike's sliding drawer he has with the great access to all his electronic gizmoes. You will see that I have left the center section wide open for now. My plan is to put the A/V TX in the upper section and the camera in the lower. My thought is to have access in the electronics in the next forward compartment which might need to be re engineered.

I might sheet part of the interior with lite ply (from the firewall forward following the 2nd diagnol brace) as I want to mount a hard wood block for the nylon wing bolts to go into.

The 1/4" x 1/4" stick is all balsa. I used 1/8" lite ply for the formers and 3/16" ply for the fire wall and nose gear former. I think the idea of having the A/V TX in the "upstairs" with the antenna pointing upwards as to downwards will make good sense as the landing gear will not interfere and most turns are done with the plane banked towards you meaning the antenna will be pointing into the turn and more at the pilot (unless you are at such altitudes as Dan then it would not help)....just my thought as I could be entirely wrong but if nothing else it will have the cool factor
Old 11-27-2005, 01:26 PM
  #16  
kd7ost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nampa, ID,
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

I think that will work out for you just fine. It sounds like you've thought it through thoroughly and have got a good handle on it. Keep us posted. This is fun stuff.

Dan
Old 11-27-2005, 01:36 PM
  #17  
Skycam41
Thread Starter
 
Skycam41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lethbridge, AB, CANADA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Hmmm, first problem just encountered. Stock muffler will not work as the wing will get in the way! I have emailed Bisson mufflers here in Canada as I think they might have the solution in an "upright" style muffler which would also help keep the plane nice and clean...

Right now I am pretty much at the mercy of the mail waiting for the wing kit to arrive....sigh!

Thanks for all your input fellows [8D]
Old 11-27-2005, 03:20 PM
  #18  
W4UAV
Senior Member
 
W4UAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Dan, the Grey Ghost is only full sheet on the bottom, the sides arent.
Mike, let me send you a pic of how my new engine is mounted, hold on with the engine mounting just yet, Ill go home and post some pics later. I mount mine at a 45 degree angle head down, Youll see when I post. Also, the drawer isnt the cat's meow, it has limitations. In hindsight, a hinged hatch or removable hatch might be better.

Ill post pics a little later.
Mike
Old 11-27-2005, 04:01 PM
  #19  
W4UAV
Senior Member
 
W4UAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Ok, heres the pics, you can see why I mounted it this way, the muffler is down and clear of the fuse.
I expected to get flow out of the carb when its sitting, the tank is a little lower than the engine, also in between flights I use a fuel shutoff clamp on the fuel line to prevent flooding the carb which hasnt been a problem on this one, I test ran it yesterday. I drove it around the yard like this I have just nosewheel and throttle control, makes a neat car, no brakes though!
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv63446.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	280.4 KB
ID:	361024   Click image for larger version

Name:	Av67649.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	254.3 KB
ID:	361025   Click image for larger version

Name:	Rw57611.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	173.8 KB
ID:	361026   Click image for larger version

Name:	Xr45940.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	170.7 KB
ID:	361027  
Old 11-27-2005, 04:22 PM
  #20  
Skycam41
Thread Starter
 
Skycam41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lethbridge, AB, CANADA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

I like that...the ultimate cat chaser Very good idea of tilting the motor like that. One thought I had with my upright installation was that the fuse would block most of the air to the enigne and the prop is blowing air away from the motor and perhaps it would not get the cooling air it would need. Is that an OS .46? You should be able to go verticle with that set up..lol
Old 11-27-2005, 04:31 PM
  #21  
randall1959
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
 
randall1959's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: saint joseph, MO
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Mike, as long as your motor is out in the air, cooling won't be a problem. Your prop will be pulling all kinds of air around it. Also, a long fuel line is really only a consideration in high G manuevers so in your case it shouldn't be much of a worry.
You could put an oscillating pump on it but I would bet you won't need it.
Old 11-27-2005, 06:14 PM
  #22  
W4UAV
Senior Member
 
W4UAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Yes, its a 46 FX, I built this plane to just fly...[8D]
Mike
Old 11-27-2005, 06:36 PM
  #23  
kd7ost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nampa, ID,
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

If you can fit the crank higher though, it will help get prop clearance for those tactical fields.

Dan
Old 11-27-2005, 06:41 PM
  #24  
W4UAV
Senior Member
 
W4UAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

ORIGINAL: kd7ost

If you can fit the crank higher though, it will help get prop clearance for those tactical fields.

Dan
Tactical Fields? You mean debris strewn, high grass, prop grabbing vine invested fields, right Dan?
The Landing gear Im using is really high, its also made by Dubro and is made from polymers, not aluminum so no interference to a low mounted RF antenna, not that any of that is going on this plane, I do have good clearance though!
Mike
Old 11-27-2005, 07:03 PM
  #25  
kd7ost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nampa, ID,
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Pusher AP plane build thread

Got it Mike. But I was talking to the other Mike. I knew you already addressed the issue. I guess anytime I make recommendations in this thread it will be towards Skycam41's build.

Dan

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.