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elevator rates 100cc extra

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elevator rates 100cc extra

Old 05-07-2007, 11:30 AM
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hanko
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Default elevator rates 100cc extra

Hi everyone, I test flew the extra friday night, we finally got some decent weather in Michigan. First flight went well except the hard landing and broken prop. The elevator which I set at 12 deg. which gave approx
1- 1/2 inches uo and down was followed. The airplane was very pitch sensitive at that rate. CG i might add is forward of recomended which Is being discussed in another post. I was told by bill hatcher at TBM that all is needed is approx 3/4 inch with 40% expo. can anyone elaborate on this subject for me. Also the DA 100 im sure is fine or 3D but to much balls for regular flying. I wish my full scale pitts had that much verticle

HH
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Old 05-07-2007, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

Hanko

Keep in mind that I am a fairly newcomer to the larger planes like the 35% size. However I will relate some of the things that I went through with my first 35% 260. I set mine up as per the instructions like you did. My CG was at 3.25" from the leading edge of the wing at the wingtip. I set the expo on the elevator and rudder to 80%. This kept a nervous beginner like myself from overcontroling. Bill Hatcher's figures he gave you would also help out. If your CG is forward of the design CG it will create higher landing speeds which will as you know from full scale aircraft will also make your control inputs more sensitive. I found on my first plane that by moving the CG only 1/4" from 3 1/4" to 3 1/2" made a big difference in landing speed and handling. As far as the power of the DA 100, the only time I use full power is for vertical. All other times I am at maybe 1/2 throttle. You will find that experimenting with expo will help a lot. Where is your CG located at now? What ever it takes to get it to 3.5", do it and you will really enjoy this airplane to the max. I have also bent the landing gear on "rough landings". I think these 26# planes create more force than a person realizes when they come in a little hard. Well that's my 2 cents worth. Hopefully some seasoned big bird flyers will answer your thread so you can obtain some veteran opinions.

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Old 05-08-2007, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

I really appreciate your opinion, it was put very well. Ive had a nose heavy situation that Im dealing with, and I will have it in check before the next flight. How much travel up and down do you have. Im not an inexperienced RC person, but I like all the input I can get. I think my CG was probably 3 inches with the fuel and smoke tank toped off. see ya thanks again

Henry Haigh
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Old 05-08-2007, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

Hanko

I have never checked CG location with the fuel tank full. so don't know how your 3" CG with fuel and smoke would relate to when they are empty. If your CG is at 3.25" with empty tanks, it will fly fine. Move it to 3.5" with empty tanks and it will fly better and land way easier. I will check my elevator travel and get back to you. I got in late from work tonight and my planes are at my shop and not at home. Mark Dennis with Aeroworks says that the furtherest back the CG should be is no more than 3.7".

flstn95 ( Bruce Opsta )
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Old 05-09-2007, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

Hanko

I have 2


' of elevator on high rates and 1" of throw on low rates. The expo on high rates is 75% and 25% on low rates. To be honest, I do not think I have ever used the low rate setting. With the 75% expo, it seems like the plane handled fine. Keep in mind a JR radio is positive on the expo and a Futaba is negative setting on expo. Just thought I'd throw that in but you probably already knew that. I'm waiting on a CF spinner and landing gear to get my CG to come out. My JR radio has 3 dual rate positions so I am going to program in 3D rates this time altough I don't know if 3D is going to happen in my lifetime. Reason being, old age and unsatisfactory eye/hand coordination. 45 years ago when I warmed the bench on the basketball team I think they called it being a spastic. Later.

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Old 05-11-2007, 09:16 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

The recommended throws for low rates are near perfect. If anything, they need to be bumped up a little (I think mine are 1-7/8" up/down). My plane is an absolute *****cat on landing and slows down to a crawl.
Other factors tha would make you have hard landings would be too forward CG, which makes the wing stall at a lower angle of attack. You want to be at a higher ange of attack, as the wing becomes sort of a drag shoot and slows the plane down faster. To do that means bringing the CG aft a bit. It is true that noseheavy planes are more stable in flight, but only to a point. A CG of 3.5-3.6 inches on an empty tank is where this plane flies best for both precision and 3D.
If you are not running expo, that's another big no-no for that amount of throw. You need at least 25%, and I run my low rates around 35-40. And, of course, as flstn pointed out, make sure your expo is in the direction that softens the feel around center.
Another factor is weight, but you say that the DA is too much power for normal flying, although I have never heard of such a thing, and you are comparing its power to a full scale Pitts, which has less than a 1:1 thrust:weight ratio, so your idea of power may be different than mine. So it is still possible that your plane is a bit on the heavy. If that's the case, and you are, say, 28 pounds or more dry, then your takeoff weight would be over 31 pounds with fuel and smoke([:'(]). Given that scenario, and the assumption that you didn't burn up all your fuel and smoke on the maiden flight (I say this because my first flights usually only run about 4-5 minutes, as do most of the people I fly with), then you were still quite hefty on landing. Bottom line is, the heavier the plane is, the more likely you are to have "hard" landings.
Of course, these are all just possible scenarios and I am just speculating. The other reasonable possibility is that you had some first flight jitters, like we all do at times, and you just though the elevator was sensative when in fact you were moving it more than you needed to...
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Old 05-12-2007, 10:31 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

My problem was CG no doubt about it. I added 6oz stickey weights on the tail wheel spring. Presto chango. its at 3.5 with empty tanks. 4 flights tonight and its way better. I might add, my plane is a CH over 27 lbs. I kept my rates at and inch and a half, but dialed in about 50% expo on the elevator. As far as power is concerned manuevers like hammer heads and humpty bumbs would be easier if the airplane would slow down going verticle. Just somethng else to figure out which wont happen on the first few flights.

H
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Old 05-12-2007, 11:31 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

Man, lead?
JK, so long as your issues are resolved, it's all good. Sounds like you're all set!
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Old 05-13-2007, 07:57 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

well dont know what to tell you bodywerks. Yes lead. sucks dont it. it actually took 6 oz to balance this thing. Ive included photos for you. as you can see all the heavy **** is towards the rear
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Old 05-13-2007, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

If you haven't already,you might try carbon fiber gear and spinner to lose some weight up front to help your balance situation.
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Old 05-13-2007, 10:26 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

yes i know about them, but im not done wrecking the original stuff yet., thanks
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Old 05-14-2007, 01:17 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

What is that servo in front of the rudder servo for? Is that your throttle servo?
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:45 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

thats right, throttle servo, double 2400 ni cads along side the rudder servo, and smoke tank and pump, in the same compartment. im still wondering why nose heavy with all that stuff back there. Im considring making a tray in the turttle deck for the two reciever batteries, that way i might be able to get rid of the lead.
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:35 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

Hey Hanko,

Read my post under the CG issue. The turtle deck tray worked great. I don't have a smoke tank or pump, however, I am only running one 4800 Ma receiver battery and one 2000 Ma ignition battery. The tray should still get you pretty close.

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Old 05-15-2007, 05:54 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

Nicads and stick on lead are we going backwords in time?
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:39 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

well do you have a better solution?
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:56 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

Hanko i think theres more going on here than we have the info to fix. You say your cg is far more forward than reccomended and the plane is ptchy with 12° on the ele on low rate with 40% expo. This setup would result in a plane which 12° of ele wouldnt hardly move a plane up or down and land at a speed only matched by the f-16.

Whats your setup all major gear, and can you get some picks of your setup on the plane motor box and all.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

i need to start over with the whole thing for you. The first flight was with the cg at 3 inches at the tip, no expo, and approx 12 degrees or maybe a tad more up and down elevator, Very twitchy and not being able to flair at low speed. in other words, it was not a fun flight. It was built per instructions, DA 100 and all rcomended JR servos, 5955 I think. 27 lbs empty, smoke and gas up in the front ahead of the tube. If you check the photos in this post, thats my airplane. dual 2400 nicads right in the ass, as is the smoke pump and battery. it took i believe 5 or 6 oz stickey weights on the tail to put the cg at the recomended 3.5 inches. I added about 60% expo and with the cg at the new location the next few flights were wonderfull. If you check in the support group, you will find that there is a few 35% er's that have come in nose heavy. No big deal, I didnt expect the first flight to be worth a s--t anyway. Ive run 2 gallons of fuel thru ti and all is welll. Im still working on a few things with the spectrum and getting a few things diald in.

see ya Henry Haigh
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Old 05-23-2007, 01:33 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

Sorry i must have glanced over that info if it was in there earlier.
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Old 05-24-2007, 08:13 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

hey no problem, got any opinions on my set up? I need all the help i can get

H
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Old 05-24-2007, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

just personal preferences, I think 60% expo is way way to much; i carry around 25 to 30 on ele low / imac rate and about 45% on high/3d rate. The reason for the 45 on 3d rate is i dont want to have to bang the sticks to full deflection to get any response. What happends with really high expo is you have a on off switch for the ele deflection and there is almost no adjustment room. Also if you are trying to hover, the stick inputs are late because your having to move the stick for X number of seconds before the ele actually moves much allowing the plane to deviate more from a completely vertical line.
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

thanks, im not into 3d, just plain old flying, Like i said once i got by the cg problem im concentrating on fine tunning. im flying tommorrow, so ILL play with the expo and report back, see ya
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Old 08-18-2007, 07:27 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

Is there a link to the manual somewhere? I am trying to find the cg and throws.

Thanks.

Rob
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Old 08-18-2007, 09:47 PM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra


ORIGINAL: hanko

thats right, throttle servo, double 2400 ni cads along side the rudder servo, and smoke tank and pump, in the same compartment. im still wondering why nose heavy with all that stuff back there. Im considring making a tray in the turttle deck for the two reciever batteries, that way i might be able to get rid of the lead.

Mine was nose heavy as well I pretty much have the same setup as you do, DA-100, same smoke pump, tanks at the same spot I have 3 2400 lithium batteries and cannisters on the engine tho, with the 2 receiver batteries next to the rudder servo and ignition near the ignition box up front behind the firewall the CG was at like 3.1 What I did is I removed a spacer from each of the engine mount bolt, manual says 5 with a DA100, I installed 4 which still gives enough spinner backplate/ cowling clearance. I built a plywood tray and installed it in the back behind the rudder servo and installed the 3 batteries there. C.G. now is pretty close to 3.5

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Old 08-20-2007, 10:38 AM
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Default RE: elevator rates 100cc extra

Ive probably got close to 100 flights on mine now. I must tell you straight up, and maybe its the nature of the beast, but just about time I think I get every thing trimmed up, CG set, rates and expo set, I encounter something else. Mine snaps ****ty. I mean it snaps, but it sort or burys's itself. It get so deep into the snap its hard to recover precision like. Its still acting like its nose heavy. Iam a little scared to move it back anymore. Has any one mounted the fuel tank underneath the tray right on the CG? A full tank seems to move it back to 3 inches.
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