1bwana1

I got my new AW 100cc Extra 260 built and maidened this past weekend. Excellent quality ARF as always from AW. It took the normal (for me, because I'm slow) 20 hrs to assemble. My equipment is as follows:

DA-100 on stock exhaust.
Hitec 5955s on Ailerons and Elevators.
JR-8711 on rudder. I did a push/pull system so the rudder servo is mounted in the tail. Great job AW for having the mounting points pre done making this option easy.
Two Fromco 2600 for RX, One 2600 for Ignition
Fromeco Wolverine Switch for RX, Badger for Ignition
Smart-Fly SuperReg on RX, Smart-Fly Ignition Reg
Smart-Fly PowerExpander Sport.
All RX Leads from batteries/switch/reg are Deans connections
All Servo Extensions are soldered so no connector amp restrictions
AW Carbon Fiber options (main wing tube, rear stab tubes back ordered, main gear, rear gear).
Super Light weight 4 1/2" Carbon Fiber Spinner
Menz 27 X 10 wooden prop (very light)
AirWild MPL aluminum servo arms
H9 Titanium turnbuckles

The reason I ordered the CF parts is that I wanted to keep the plane reasonably light as it will primarily be a free style plane for me (IMAC backup). I even used covering to seal the motor box, and cannister tunnel openings rather than the provided ply pieces. My All Up Weight came in at 26lbs 12 1/2 oz. I was hoping for the lower end of 26lbs, but it was in the range of what I have heard flies well with this model. I was concerned with being tail heavy because of the rear mounted rudder servo, the aluminum stab tubes, and the fact that a great deal of my weight savings took place up front. To my surprise, I had to mount the the RX batteries at the very back of the rear tray, and my Powerbox, reg, and ignition battery also on the rear tray to acheive the recomended 3 1/4" CG as measured from the leading edge at the wing tips. I can't see how this would be acheived with cannisters up front, and the normal two servo Pull/Pull rudder setup that I have seen a lot of people running. Anyway, that's the setup I took to the field for the maiden.

The maiden went well, but the in my opinion the plane flew very nose heavy at the recommended CG. My criteria for proper balance is that the plane carries an inverted 45 degree upline hands off without climbing, or dropping the nose. It should also take just a suggestion (very, very light) of elevator to maintain level inverted flight. At the recomended CG it was not even close. The nose heavy tendencies also showed in strong coupling. Pulling to the canopy in both directions of knife edge, and in down lines. There was also some roll coupling with the rudder, but I doubt this is CG related. I started adding weights to the tail, but ran out of weights before I got to a proper CG. I then gave up on trimming for the day and just flew some fun flights. I have to say, this is a very fun airplane to fly. Nose heavy and all, it did incredible inverted flat spins. Elevators and harriers have just a touch of rock, that will probably go away as the CG is worked out, and the thing just loves to hover. I had a blast the rest of the day.

I can't stand the thought of adding weight, so I removed the weights from the tail, and built a tray behind the next former after the canopy former. I installed the two RX batteries on this tray. It added less than one oz to the plane, and moved the CG back to about 3.7". I went out and flew it again today. The clouds were very low today. In fact, the plane disapeared twice on not very tall up lines. Thank God for Hammer Head turns that pretty much assure the plane appears close to where it dissapeared. Given the conditions, I focused mostly on level flight, upright and inverted. Inverted still has a little too much stick for me. Short 45 degree inverted uplines still showed a slight drop in the nose. I mixed out the roll coupling with a 3 unit (JR-9303) Rudder to Aileron mix. With that, knife edges in both directions are getting real close to hands off with no Rudder to Elevator mix yet. Fun doing low knife edge passes the length of the field.

OK, so here is where you guys who have flown this plane for a while, and have it dialed perfectly can save me some time.

Where did you end you end up on CG? I'm pretty far back from recommended already, but I'm thinking I will still need to go back a little. I'm looking for a way to do it without adding weight.

My up lines are pretty good with a little pull to the left. Have you guys changed the thrust on the motor? I'm thinking a little more right, and maybe slightly more up?

The rolls are nice, but show a little more wobble, and drift, than I'd like. Have any of you found the need for aileron differential?

In short, where is your CG, and what mixes did you end up with?

I'm going to a freestyle event this weekend and am hoping your insights will shorten my trimming time, and allow more time for fun flying!

-STEVE-

Grelker

My Feedback: (58)

My CG is at 3.75" and is just on the edge of being squirrely on landings. I tried a little further back, but then the elevator was just too sensitive and the 45 degree inverted upline test didn't really change much. I did not change the engine thrust lines as mine will pull 500' or so vertical without correction. I have rudder to up elevator mix of 1% (right rudder) and 11% (left rudder). Opposite aileron to rudder mix is 10% both directions. 4% down elevator to throttle mix for vertical downlines. These are all Futaba numbers. I have mostly stock stuff with twin 5955's on the rudder, a DA 100 on cans with an AUW of 27#-10 oz. Hope this helps.

1bwana1

Grelker,
Thanks for taking the time to sharing your setup information. I will be flying the plane all weekend, so should get the setup much more dialed in. I will post my results as i learn more.

cccdad

Just maidened my 260 today. CG is at 3.25 which is way to far forward. The landings were long and fast. I actualy lost the tailwheel when it ran over the runway into the grass. FYI I am running 8611's all around with 2 on the rudder set up in th rear as push/ pull. that was the only way to get the CG back without lead. My batteries are also at the rear of the tray. I checked and rechecked all incidences and every thing zeroed but I did not not measure the down thrust yet. Though I have not found any pitch issues with the CG were it is yet.

I am going to make some changes and try again.

Has any one tryed CF pipes? will this help the CG by using a light exhaust and moving the weight back into the fuse?

1bwana1

cccdad,
You are so right, the recommended 3.25 cg is far too nose heavy. I had a chance to fly two other examples of this plane this weekend. Both of them are also fighting being nose heavy, but have been just living with it. Both of these planes weighed at least 1/2 lbs more than mine. After seeing my plane, they will both be doing the mods needed to move their CGs back. The plane flies OK nose heavy, but not up to it's potential, and it adds a lot to the pilot workload.
I finally got my CG to where I like it. It is now about 3.8" behind the leading edge at the wing tips. The plane now flies a 45 degree up line both upright, and inverted hands off. It is near perfect in level inverted flight, just a slight pressure on the stick to hold it. It took a lot of work and test flights to get it to this point. I have built a tray back in the fuse, and it now holds all three of my 2600 mAh Fromeco batteries. All other pieces like, RX, Powerbox, regs are at the rear of the included tray. In addition, I have had to add 2 ozs of weight to the tail of the plane. I hated to add the weight, but have pretty much run out of other options. Getting the right CG has added about 4 ozs to the plane. Darn, but I'll find a way to keep the CG and remove that extra weight yet!

The good news is that I am now starting to feel the love in the way the plane flies. I have begun working on the other mixes. So far I have 10 units of aileron mix to right rudder and 7 units to left rudder. This keeps the plane from rolling out in knife edge. For differential, I have about 4 degrees more up aileron than down so far. The plane is getting very close to tracking perfectly straight during continual rolls. I will probably add a touch more differential because there is still a slight wobble in the rolls. I have a couple of units of up Elevator to rudder, and 3 units of down Elevator to low throttle. With these mixes, it is an easy to fly, straight tracking plane. It would do well in IMAC. This plane is much more complicated to get dialed in than my 100cc Aeroworks YAk. That plane balanced and flew properly right out of the box. In fact, I competed in IMAC successfully with it without any mixes. I'll continue to post as I get the mixes dialed in.

I took the 260 to a freestyle event this weekend, and I have to say, it is a great plane for that. This is one, agile, tumbling, flat spinning, rolling, and hovering SOB of a plane. I love throwing this thing around the sky! I really don't know why I'm obsessing over the weight, it flies light, and lands like a butterfly with sore feet. Still, lighter always seems to fly even better.

-STEVE-

Grelker

My Feedback: (58)

Can you post a pic of your battery shelf and location. thanks

1bwana1

Grelker,
Sorry this took so long. I have spent the last couple of days with a kidney stone in the hospital. I'm OK now. Below are a couple of pictures of the tray I built to mount the batteries. Basically it is light ply, cut to shape, with slots cut to allow the Velcro straps to pass through. The tray is epoxied in to place with 60 minute epoxy and a couple of screws were added for extra security. The batteries have been wrapped in foam, then wrapped with duct tape. The foam keeps vibration down, and the duct tape secures the foam, and allows me to attach Velcro strips to it and the tray. In this way I am not dependant just on the Velcro straps for security. The straps hold the battery down on the Velcro strips. It is very secure, and easy to remove the batteries if needed.

The first picture shows a close up of the tray with batteries installed. Note the Velcro straps, and the 18 gauge wire I used because of the long runs.

The second picture show the Smart-Fly Power Expander and Regulator. They also use 18 gauge wire and are mounted where the pull/pull rudder servo would go. Remember I mounted my rudder servo on the tail. As you can see, the only thing in my setup that is forward of the wing tube are the motor, ignition and throttle servo.

The last picture is just a shot of the plane at the field.

Grelker

My Feedback: (58)

Thanks, the pics are very helpful. If that's you by the plane, glad to see another "mature" guy! I always say I need the big plane to be able to see it, not because I'm a super pilot.

cccdad

Thanks for the reply it took me a while to catch up. I am waiting for my new carbon tailwheel I also splurged on the carbon spars. I also run 3 2600 lions. I am going to take your suggestion and move my CG to about 3.8. I got to run but I will check back please keep up the posts.