Is this legal?
10-14-2007, 01:30 PM
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Is this legal?
..Any passengers on board..
10-14-2007, 02:03 PM
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RE: Is this legal?
That would be some ride, wingtip looks like it gets pretty close at one point. Of course big jump in performance unlaiden 
Rob.
Rob.
10-14-2007, 02:21 PM
#4
10-14-2007, 04:50 PM
#6
RE: Is this legal?
Crassly, utterly absurdly stupid bit of flying. TAP flights ops management, and the Portugese CAA, if they allowed this sort of stupidity, need firing.
Regards, David Gladwin.
Regards, David Gladwin.
10-14-2007, 05:05 PM
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RE: Is this legal?
Legal...shmegal ............darned foolhardy at best.
I can't see any corporation willingly risking a revenue asset like that. The safety concerns are pretty self eviden!
I can't see any corporation willingly risking a revenue asset like that. The safety concerns are pretty self eviden!
10-14-2007, 06:05 PM
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RE: Is this legal?
When the 737(i think) was first introduced boeing had a pres demonstration where the airlines and pres could see it fly, the pilots did a low g barrel roll. Wish i had a video of it to show. Saw it on TV back when the Military Channel was the Discovery Wings Channel.
10-14-2007, 06:16 PM
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RE: Is this legal?
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots.
But there are no old, bold, pilots.
That was a notice on the dashboard of an aeroplane that i used to fly, some years ago. It's very true.
No one was killed, this time.
Good bit of flying though. Oh, you are allowed to come down low, at airfields. So, yes, legal !
Ray.
But there are no old, bold, pilots.
That was a notice on the dashboard of an aeroplane that i used to fly, some years ago. It's very true.
No one was killed, this time.
Good bit of flying though. Oh, you are allowed to come down low, at airfields. So, yes, legal !
Ray.
10-14-2007, 06:39 PM
#11
RE: Is this legal?
Of course it's legal...it's at an air show. I'll bet it's was probably flown by the Chiefs too...they usually somehow get all the fun stuff. The only dangerous thing they did was to climb into an Airbus and actually leave the ground in it!
Beave
BA-3100, SF-340, DC-9, B-727, B-737, B-757, B-767
Beave
BA-3100, SF-340, DC-9, B-727, B-737, B-757, B-767
10-14-2007, 06:42 PM
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RE: Is this legal?
......hhhmmmm.......
It seems that a flight ,somewhere in Portugal ,bothers so much people...
And it seems that Mr. Gladwin, after all, is not so polite as he should be...
The flight was covered exaustly by Portuguese media and I could tell you a lot of things that you, I am sure, would like to know...
But you did not ask politely.... So, at the level you speak, I am out...
It seems that a flight ,somewhere in Portugal ,bothers so much people...
And it seems that Mr. Gladwin, after all, is not so polite as he should be...
The flight was covered exaustly by Portuguese media and I could tell you a lot of things that you, I am sure, would like to know...
But you did not ask politely.... So, at the level you speak, I am out...
10-14-2007, 06:42 PM
#13
RE: Is this legal?
That was world famous Boeing test pilot Tex Johnson flying the B-707 over the Seattle boat races back in the '50s...
Beave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHiYA6Dmws
Beave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHiYA6Dmws
ORIGINAL: will in the 985
When the 737(i think) was first introduced boeing had a pres demonstration where the airlines and pres could see it fly, the pilots did a low g barrel roll. Wish i had a video of it to show. Saw it on TV back when the Military Channel was the Discovery Wings Channel.
When the 737(i think) was first introduced boeing had a pres demonstration where the airlines and pres could see it fly, the pilots did a low g barrel roll. Wish i had a video of it to show. Saw it on TV back when the Military Channel was the Discovery Wings Channel.
10-14-2007, 06:45 PM
#14
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RE: Is this legal?
Will,
that story was about the 707. demoed for th press.
Unfortuneatly, the next guy who tried it after that, well, died.
Oh, and i wouldnt be surprised if it turns out it was TAP management flying that aircraft. Seem to have a way of being involved in a significant number of incidents relative to the number of flights they do.
that story was about the 707. demoed for th press.
Unfortuneatly, the next guy who tried it after that, well, died.
Oh, and i wouldnt be surprised if it turns out it was TAP management flying that aircraft. Seem to have a way of being involved in a significant number of incidents relative to the number of flights they do.
10-14-2007, 07:18 PM
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RE: Is this legal?
I've seen NWA do low flybys at Oshkosh, I'm sure the crew gets permission from ops first, and they do it with an empty plane. No aerobatics are allowed. The 707 barrel roll was not planned. Tex Johnson, the test pilot, did it during one of the first public flying demos at a Seattle festival. I've a video of someone trying it in a B52, with much less success.
10-14-2007, 07:43 PM
#16
RE: Is this legal?
There is nothing to be polite about when I see such stupidity, because thats how I see it, and I have a little experience of actually flying big twins (as a B767 and 757 captain). In the world class aviation organisations I spent my flying career with (RAF, Britannia Airways and British Airways) however skilled a pilot is it HAS to be matched by good judgement and DISCIPLINE is an essential ingredient and this flight demonstrated to me, as a former professional , unbelievably poor judgement and self discipline which would not be tolerated in those organisations.
I cannot imagine in the UK the CAA allowing such reckless flying, (because that is what I saw in that video) and I am sure the flying committee at Farnborough or RIAT would have grounded the crew and just for one moment can you imagine such flying being permitted at Oshkosh ?
Some of us can rememeber dreadful accidents at air shows such as Ramstein and the Airbus crash at Habsheim, we dont need another.
That sort of demo may have wowed the uninitiated but to me it was totally and wholly irresponsible, and that is a restrained opinion.
Regards,
David Gladwin.
I cannot imagine in the UK the CAA allowing such reckless flying, (because that is what I saw in that video) and I am sure the flying committee at Farnborough or RIAT would have grounded the crew and just for one moment can you imagine such flying being permitted at Oshkosh ?
Some of us can rememeber dreadful accidents at air shows such as Ramstein and the Airbus crash at Habsheim, we dont need another.
That sort of demo may have wowed the uninitiated but to me it was totally and wholly irresponsible, and that is a restrained opinion.
Regards,
David Gladwin.
10-14-2007, 07:49 PM
#17
RE: Is this legal?
ORIGINAL: David Gladwin
There is nothing to be polite about when I see such stupidity, because thats how I see it, and I have a little experience of actually flying big twins (as a B767 and 757 captain). In the world class aviation organisations I spent my flying career with (RAF, Britannia Airways and British Airways) however skilled a pilot is it HAS to be matched by good judgement and DISCIPLINE is an essential ingredient and this flight demonstrated to me, as a former professional , unbelievably poor judgement and self discipline which would not be tolerated in those organisations.
I cannot imagine in the UK the CAA allowing such reckless flying, (because that is what I saw in that video) and I am sure the flying committee at Farnborough or RIAT would have grounded the crew and just for one moment can you imagine such flying being permitted at Oshkosh ?
Some of us can rememeber dreadful accidents at air shows such as Ramstein and the Airbus crash at Habsheim, we dont need another.
That sort of demo may have wowed the uninitiated but to me it was totally and wholly irresponsible, and that is a restrained opinion.
Regards,
David Gladwin.
There is nothing to be polite about when I see such stupidity, because thats how I see it, and I have a little experience of actually flying big twins (as a B767 and 757 captain). In the world class aviation organisations I spent my flying career with (RAF, Britannia Airways and British Airways) however skilled a pilot is it HAS to be matched by good judgement and DISCIPLINE is an essential ingredient and this flight demonstrated to me, as a former professional , unbelievably poor judgement and self discipline which would not be tolerated in those organisations.
I cannot imagine in the UK the CAA allowing such reckless flying, (because that is what I saw in that video) and I am sure the flying committee at Farnborough or RIAT would have grounded the crew and just for one moment can you imagine such flying being permitted at Oshkosh ?
Some of us can rememeber dreadful accidents at air shows such as Ramstein and the Airbus crash at Habsheim, we dont need another.
That sort of demo may have wowed the uninitiated but to me it was totally and wholly irresponsible, and that is a restrained opinion.
Regards,
David Gladwin.
Semper Fi
joe
10-14-2007, 07:58 PM
#18
RE: Is this legal?
What do you think about this,is this legal????http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqlRrLeYYUw&NR=1
10-14-2007, 08:17 PM
#19
RE: Is this legal?
David you get your panties in a wad more than any body I know. I know for a fact that AA has done the same things at Airshows because I have been on one. The date was 8/9/83 at the Harlingen Texas Airshow for the CAF. That day American, Southwest and Delta all did the same thing. All were full of passengers and was approved by FAA. So Go Cry some where else. Butch
10-14-2007, 08:36 PM
#20
RE: Is this legal?
ORIGINAL: hmjets
What do you think about this,is this legal????http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqlRrLeYYUw&NR=1
What do you think about this,is this legal????http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqlRrLeYYUw&NR=1
Bob
10-14-2007, 09:21 PM
#21
RE: Is this legal?
Maybe Butch, maybe, so are you saying you APPROVE of this sort of thing?
1983 eh,. We've come a LONG, long way since then, so would they do it now and if so why not ?
We did a number of airshow demos with Concorde in the 90s,, Duxford, Exeter, Nottingham (I was on the flight deck ) all VERY tame as our passengers would expect. The CAA later banned ANY airshow participation other than routine take off and landings. We thought, at the time, it was overkill on the part of the CAA but the aviation world was moving on !
I rest my case, take it or leave it !
Regards,
David Gladwin.
1983 eh,. We've come a LONG, long way since then, so would they do it now and if so why not ?
We did a number of airshow demos with Concorde in the 90s,, Duxford, Exeter, Nottingham (I was on the flight deck ) all VERY tame as our passengers would expect. The CAA later banned ANY airshow participation other than routine take off and landings. We thought, at the time, it was overkill on the part of the CAA but the aviation world was moving on !
I rest my case, take it or leave it !
Regards,
David Gladwin.
10-14-2007, 09:35 PM
#22
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RE: Is this legal?
I doubt if the plane in the video had any passangers in it. I don't see what the big deal is here. It's an airshow , isn't that what we do at them.
I don't see any problem with it.
I don't see any problem with it.
10-14-2007, 10:11 PM
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RE: Is this legal?
FWIW, The SAA 747 did a spectacular aerobatic air display over Donnington Park, East Midlands Airporrt, June 12 2004, simular to the one in the U-tube SAA 747 Video. Unforgetable.
Brg
Dave.
10-14-2007, 11:30 PM
#25
RE: Is this legal?
As I said, I rest my case and it seems VERY valid, I am most certainly not alone. There are no less than 19 pages of comment on this "performance" in Pprune (www.pprune.org) and whilst some pilots think it acceptable the vast majority are extremely critical. using "restrained" descriptions of the pilot in command such as totally stupid, idiotic and criminally insane. Many comments mirror exactly what I said. Take a look.
Air Portugal must have fabulous simulators as the PIC, the Airbus Fleet Captain, the PIC practised these manoevres in their sim. The mind boggles !
...................and yes Butch I do get hot under the collar when I see people doing STUPID things with aeroplanes, model or fullsize and I make NO apology for that ! I have seen what happens when it all goes horribly, horribly wrong.
Nuff said !
Regards,
David Gladwin.
Air Portugal must have fabulous simulators as the PIC, the Airbus Fleet Captain, the PIC practised these manoevres in their sim. The mind boggles !
...................and yes Butch I do get hot under the collar when I see people doing STUPID things with aeroplanes, model or fullsize and I make NO apology for that ! I have seen what happens when it all goes horribly, horribly wrong.
Nuff said !
Regards,
David Gladwin.