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-   -   License Question (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/airplanes-full-scale-255/8416467-license-question.html)

daveopam 01-29-2009 05:27 PM

License Question
I need a little direction. There is a local guy who has taken some lessons but has no licence. He is charging people to fly them around and flying on his own. Last week he hit a wing tip pulling his plane out of the hanger. So he put bondo on it and used spray paint to touch it up. When I talked to other local pilots about him they more or less said he will take himself out and cure the problem. Maybe so but what will he hit and who will be with him. Non of them want the FAA breathing down their neck so they wont turn him in. The airport mgr dose not want the rep of turning people in. So there it is. Should I just mind my own business and forget it? Does this happen a lot? Is this the kind of thing full scale pilots just don't worry about? If this was a modeler being dangerous at our field I would have a sit down with him. I am not a full scale pilot and have no desire to get a license. Living within a 1/4 mile of the South end of the runway kind of concernes me.

Like I started with. A little guidence please. David

Chris Moon 01-29-2009 05:33 PM

RE: License Question
Student pilot cannot take passengers with them....ever. I know that if I knew what he was doing and and did nothing and he ended up killing someone that I would not feel too good about not stepping in to do the right thing. There are things in life that you might not "tattle" on, but this is life or death stuff. If he wanted to kill himself that's one thing but innocent people are involved too. Just my $.02

normgoyer 01-29-2009 07:59 PM

RE: License Question
Blow the whistle, now. Aviation does not need these mavericks who break the law and harm flying and other people and property, Norm

N1EDM 01-29-2009 08:14 PM

RE: License Question
I'll chime in here too... I had a similar occurrence yesterday while commuting. I was following a guy weaving all over the road. He swung into the other lane several times. It was obvious that he was going to travel a great distance (there aren't many turn-off's on this road), so it wasn't a matter of keeping an eye on him for only a few blocks before he turned into the driveway.

I called 911. I don't care if he takes himself out, but anyone in oncoming traffic would not have had a chance. They would have been in a very undeserved head-on collission through no fault of their own - almost happened in one case. Think of the injury, the property loss, etc. I really didn't like to do it, but then I thought that I would appreciate it if someone called in a drunk driver rather than have him bash into ME. I see no difference in your situation, except in the mode of transportation.

No one wants to be a bad guy and today, especially me. Too many people don't want to 'get involved'. But they'll appreciate it if someone else does it for them. If your motive was just to get this guy into trouble, that would be one thing. But to protect someone who's giving rides to people who are presuming that he's properly trained and licensed is quite another thing. It's a hard choice.

Just my $.02


91zulu 01-29-2009 09:14 PM

RE: License Question
Thats not new happens often in rural areas , small towns. People get training, sometimes free from a buddy then when they feel that they know enough..... off to the big blue

DT56 01-29-2009 09:30 PM

RE: License Question
Definitely report the violation!

If you'd rather not, then you can PM me the details and I'll pass them on to the FAA. It's too serious a violation to allow to continue.

normgoyer 01-29-2009 10:10 PM

RE: License Question
Say Hi to Brooklyn for me, I received part of my US Navy flight training at Floyd Bennett Fjield, Had a great time, Norm

daveopam 01-30-2009 02:37 PM

RE: License Question
I decided on a course of action. While I care nothing about pi**ing off the guy in question. I do not want my friends to deal with FAA problems I might cause. So I going to talk to the city manager. I am going to tell the city manager that the airport manager is opening them up for litigation. Explain the situation and ask the city manager to talk to the airport manager. The airport manager lives on site and can either stop this or kick him out of his hanger. If nothing changes I will ask DT56 how to report the violation.

Thanks to all for the insight, David

victorzamora 01-30-2009 04:03 PM

RE: License Question
David, I'm glad that you decided to report him. And if it makes you feel any better, look at it from his perspective...or his family's perspective. If your father were doing the same thing, wouldn't you rather someone report him than him die and take someone else out with him? Even if no one died, don't you think it'd bring you more pain to know that you almost killed yourself and other innocent people than to have a possible law suit brought up against you? Near death situations are not fun at all, even if there is NO physical damage.....much less whatever damage you'd receive from being in a plane crash.

You're doing the most mature and responsible thing. I applaud people with that courage. Sadly, it's not an easy thing to stand up for what you know is right. I appreciate when people do....and I'm sure I'm not alone.

N1EDM 01-30-2009 08:36 PM

RE: License Question
Hi David,

Kudos on your course of action.

Norm, Floyd Bennet is still there, albeit a National Park, and they use one of the taxiways as a RC Field.


normgoyer 01-30-2009 09:38 PM

RE: License Question
Hey, that's great news, while I was there for orientation I saw my first Grumman Tiger Cat and first Grumman Bearcat, how I wanted to fly those, especially the F8 Bearcat, but never did, it was SNJs for me. Norm

91zulu 01-30-2009 09:40 PM

RE: License Question
1 Attachment(s)
Yep ...use to fly at Floyd , nice field but the politics is a kill joy big time. Had a lot of fun there though between fishing and flying.

N1EDM 01-31-2009 08:07 AM

RE: License Question
Hi Norm,

I also understand that Floyd Bennet was the end of a record-breaking flight that John Glenn once made as a Marine pilot

91zulu, been there and done that. It's about to destroy a RC club that I used to belong to. I got out for that reason. It's a shame, too. The club has been there for 50 years.

Didn't want to get off-topic here.


TruBlu02 01-31-2009 01:33 PM

RE: License Question
I would have no problem reporting someone breaking the law like this. Especially since he is not just risking his own life but the life of others he takes out to fly. I would care nothing about pissing him off or anyone else located at the field. The FAA is not out to get people, Especially licensed pilots that are stationed a this field. I have dedicated alot of time and money to getting proper training for all my ratings and I don't appreciate people like this giving pilots a bad name and endangering people. I am glad you decided to step in and take care of this issue.

Flyfalcons 01-31-2009 01:38 PM

RE: License Question
If the other pilots are afraid of an FAA guy coming over to bust on this dude's illegal flight activities, it most likely means that they are operating illegally as well. The FAA isn't the bad guy; they just want to make sure people are operating safely and legally. I've had plenty of dealings with folks from the FSDO (several FSDOs with my moving around the country) from 135 checkrides and renewing my CFI certificates and they've all been reasonable folks.

jjglennon 02-01-2009 10:27 AM

RE: License Question
I strongly disagree that there is any circumstantial evidence that other perople are breaking any rules simply because the they don't want the FAA poking around. If you don't want to go so far as to say the FAA are bad guys, at the very least I'm completely confident they're not the good guys either. The FAA is the 800 pound gorilla and can make anyone's flying career or activity miserable. Look into the Bob Hoover story, if you care to. Being a large, powerful government organization, the FAA can outspend any innocent person accused of any infraction. Equivalent logic flows to the IRS... I don't want them poking around either, and that does not imply anything about my compliance or non-compliance with the tax laws. If a tax cheat gets caught, fine. If innocent people get targeted because they share an interest or a physical space with him, that's what people are afraid of.

normgoyer 02-01-2009 11:10 AM

RE: License Question
Hi, I wrote about the Bob Hoover story and I am know him personally through airshow contacts. There are two sides to that story and many believe that the FAA acted correctly. Norm

One year at Sun 'n Fun Hoover had the booth next to ours and we spend long hours talking shop

vupilot 02-01-2009 02:56 PM

RE: License Question
There is a FAA hotline for reporting such cases. http://www.faa.gov/contact/

Flyfalcons 02-01-2009 04:02 PM

RE: License Question
John, believe it or not the FAA really isn't out to get the average weekend flyer. They are more concerned about the safety of the public and commercial operations, especially when the public could be unknowingly paying for rides with an unlicensed pilot. There's nothing scary about a ramp check as long as you are in compliance with the regs.

jjglennon 02-04-2009 10:33 PM

RE: License Question
Norm and Ryan,
Thank you for your thoughtful replies. I don't intend to stray too far from the topic I merely sympathize with pilots who wouldn't want to bring the FAA to their airport and argue that their reluctance to do so does not imply guilt, improper, or illegal operations by those pilots. They just don't want the FAA around.

My perspective is that I just won a 4 year, ridiculously expensive legal battle with the FAA which was brought by an inspector who did not/does not understand the regulations he attempted to enforce. At every turn, I was forced to prove my innocence. It was never presumed.

Norm- I absolutely agree that there are two sides to every story. My point was that two FAA employees with no knowledge, training, or experience of "cognitive" problems diagnosed and brought action against Mr Hoover and it became his lot to prove himself "normal".

Ryan- My GA experience is extremely limited, so I can't speak to your generalization. With all respect, however, I don't believe you've ever been on the receiving end of an FAA inquiry.

For the record, I think vupilot's suggestion of an anonymous tip is the best idea. The unlicensed pilot is a menace and is probably an accident waiting to happen.


Flyfalcons 02-05-2009 12:25 AM

RE: License Question
Really? I mean, say you're flying at some airport where an unlicensed idiot is taking people for rides and charging for them. You wouldn't alert the FAA of that because you don't want them at your airport? [sm=confused.gif] Something is very fishy about this story.

robert waldo 02-05-2009 02:20 AM

RE: License Question
Fly falcons. (glasshouse) You are dead wrong. The faa allows and encourages personal vendettas. Anybody, (except institutionalized) pilots and mechanics know this. So do the other pilots at this airport. A group of airline pilots at a senate investigation called them (faa) nazis. There are NO checks and balances if you cross paths with one of these people. The fact that most people in aviation want nothing to do with them has created an unsafe and adversarial environment. GLASS HOUSE. I bet I can review your log books and ramp any airplane you fly and find violations that would result in the revocation of your licence. Cross the IRS with the post office=faa. Unbridled power+ incompetence. Handle it like an American and get in his face. If that doesn't work call the local FSDO.

Flyfalcons 02-05-2009 02:25 AM

RE: License Question
The aircraft I fly and I are subject to inspection by the FAA at any time. With the caliber of people that I fly, you can be assured the FAA has a keen interest that my company is operating safely and within regulations. I take the same approach when I fly privately as well. Wanna take a guess as to how many of those private pilots at podunksville airport don't have a current flight review, or expired medical?

robert waldo 02-05-2009 03:03 PM

RE: License Question
Remind yourself of Southwest Airlines that despite an army of the elite oversight, flew their airplanes for years without compliance of several very important AD's. This is with 24 hour 7 days a week oversight. One of the AD's had resulted in the destruction of a airframe. They are like any other US bureaucracy, owned, mission directed by lobbyist who bribe for policy, law, regulation and selective enforcement. They are also without limits to hypocrisy. On a public announcement last night the department of commerce was advising Americans on how to spend money.

Captainbob 02-05-2009 04:11 PM

RE: License Question
You guys sound like a bunch of old women, with nothing better to do than sit around the cribbage table and gossip. Why don't you find something better to do and let the FAA do the work THEY'RE supposed to do. Do you run out and find the first cop when you see someone run a red light or pass on the right. Give these folks who are riding with this guy some credit for their own intelligence. If this fellow is guilty of what you say he is he'll get caught sooner or later and you won't be guilty of being a bunch of busyboddys.

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