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3D flying

Old 09-21-2010, 11:07 AM
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: crash99

Wow,

HIGHSTRUT and others are promoting the 3D hate on this thread again. Sounds like another club want to be a NON AMA promoting club. Why would you want to ban the only group in our hobby that is growing?

Feel free to check out [link]http://www.circleflyers.com[/link] It is so simple. If you think a ban of 3D is good, your a 3D hater, A anti AMA promoting member, One who is promoting the AMA dues to be raised. It is simple. But you have the right to hate. The club has the right to hate as a group.
Yes, anytime someone has a complaint about a 3Der the AMA dies just a little more. Really? You think 3D is the savior of the AMA? Clubs have been banning other forms of flight since the dawn of the hobby. After all what is a club but a group of like minded individuals coming together to pursue an activity that they all enjoy. If the majority see their time being monopolized by a group whose interest is not the same as the groups then yes they may very well ban that activity. I have had to find my own fields when my freestyle flying was frowned upon. I generally found others that shared my interest and we flew together, and life went on.
Look, if there is a 3D flyer having fun and enjoying the hobby, wait until he lands then you can enjoy the hobby circle flying. It works both way. That is how it works here in Central Missouri. Hum ....................... I am sure you would be stomping mad if it was going to ban warbirds. Stop trying to be a bad club, get a clue and get rid of your very bad attude. The hobby is for all.
If you think its acceptable for a whole group of flyers to wait for one guy to finish flying every time he wants to fly then you are living in a fantasy world. No one person is that much more important then the rest no matter how good he thinks he is.

Just remember, Those how can do, those who can't complain.

Crash99
Yes we all know how much better 3D flyers are then the rest of the world. They drive nicer cars, have more money and better jobs, prettier wives, and smarter kids, and the weather is just a little nicer when they are around. Your shtick is getting a little tired.
Old 09-21-2010, 11:16 AM
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Default RE: 3D flying

Not sharing air time and air space at busy fields goes back as far as I can remember. It's too bad that clubs take in guys who end up being not very good team mates or buddies.
One solution would be to have a lengthy probation period for new members and to have definite limits for how airtime and airspace gets used and shared.
Old 09-21-2010, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

This problem has never been an issue about 3D fliers not allowing other fliers to fly. It is an issue about the old fart$ (non-fliers) not liking the noise that goes along with 3D. I was simply looking for ideas/ arguments to present to the club so that I could get the 3D ban voted down. I fully understand that the majority vote will prevale, but I need help swaying the undecided. I have already read some very good ideas. Thank You
Old 09-21-2010, 12:58 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

rcplanenut I think you are doing the right thing. Get as many people to agree that everyone can fly together, by finding ways to come to an equitable solution that everyone can live with and the majority should vote it down.
Old 09-21-2010, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: rcplanenut

This problem has never been an issue about 3D fliers not allowing other fliers to fly. It is an issue about the old fart$ (non-fliers) not liking the noise that goes along with 3D. I was simply looking for ideas/ arguments to present to the club so that I could get the 3D ban voted down. I fully understand that the majority vote will prevale, but I need help swaying the undecided. I have already read some very good ideas. Thank You
Your not suppling enough information to gain the help.
What's the name of the club?
Do they have a website?
Do they have monthly meetings?
Do they have bylaws?
Do they have field rules?
If they have field rules, is there noise level restrictions you must follow. Example(All engines must have effective mufflers. Noise levels are to be kept low,maximum noise level: 97DB at nine feet.)
This could be your winning argument, if your engine is within their noise level it matters not what kind of flying you do safely.
If your above the noise level, you need to correct that.

If there's no rules, dig in with other members and create them to almost everyones satisfaction.

In my opinion a low high speed pass with a WW2 warbird is noisier than a 3d model.
Old 09-21-2010, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

Well, I usually avoid these threads but here is my 2 cents.

I'm a probro, and have the tat to show my dedication to my bros. I am also a club president. I'm a 3Der and heli flyer, and anything else I can get my hands on. That being said, I can understand and agree with a 50' rule for down on the deck. Not everyone is into 3D type flying and that is what makes us strong as a group as long as we respect each other. I was the only person getting down on the deck in the previous club and we all got along great as per the flying part. Its nothing for 2-4 guys to be in the pattern flying. When they were done, I would fly my sack off for about 10 minutes and then give up the air to them again. Did I hover over the deck? yep, sure did. Even did a 10 min hover to win a 1$ bet once. We were in a mutual understanding about the "noise" of things. Ever had to sit and listen to YS's screaming on headers running lean in a brick of a cub? Gets old, but its the mutual respect that makes it all fun and enjoyable for all. They got theirs and I got mine, and we were all happy. I don't think one style over runs another style, or outrates another. All forms have their place, and all can get along as all involved are not acting like asses. If they are flying, let them, and then take your turn. When yours is over, let them up. its all really simple.

As for the ones that want to ban "3D", they are showing a lacking in understanding, not knowledge. Educate them, make a fair agreement for all involved, and hold to it. If they persist, then organize and beat them at their own game. there is more strength in numbers. I agree with some of the mentions here like banned certain things but not "3D". work establish a fair sharing of the airspace and time. Noise is part of the hobby, and should not be the only reason for a new rule. That is just rediculous.
Old 09-21-2010, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

Ahhhh hahahahahah somebody should kick us both in the nuts

ORIGINAL: dbcisco


ORIGINAL: warbird addict
LMAO I'm an exelent spelar what are talkin about
And I kwoted you.
Old 09-21-2010, 07:57 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

consider yerselves properly kicked.
fall down screaming in pain for 3 minutes now.
Old 09-22-2010, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: 3D flying

I really love how the OP has decided this is all about old fart$ as he calls them and how they are the only ones who cause the problems. I thought I might define an old fart as most of us know them....they are not as bad as most of you might think....


I'm passing this on as I did not want to be the only old fart receiving it. Actually, it's not a bad thing to be called, as you will see. Old Farts are easy to spot at sporting events; during the playing of the National Anthem. Old Farts remove their caps and stand at attention and sing without embarrassment. They know the words and believe in them.

Old Farts remember World War II, Pearl Harbour , Guadalcanal , Normandy and Hitler. They remember the Atomic Age, the Korean War, The Cold War, the Jet Age and the Moon Landing. They remember the 50 plus Peacekeeping Missions from 1945 to 2005, not to mention Vietnam .

If you bump into an Old Fart on the sidewalk he will apologize. If you pass an Old Fart on the street, he will nod or tip his cap to a lady. Old Farts trust strangers and are courtly to women.

Old Farts hold the door for the next person and always, when walking, make certain the lady is on the inside for protection.

Old Farts get embarrassed if someone curses in front of women and children and they don't like any filth or dirty language on TV or in movies.

Old Farts have moral courage and personal integrity. They seldom brag unless it's about their children or grandchildren.

It's the Old Farts who know our great country is protected, not by politicians, but by the young men and women in the military serving their country.

This country needs Old Farts with their work ethic, sense of responsibility, pride in their country and decent values.

We need them now more than ever.

Thank God for Old Farts!
Now as to 3D flying...perhaps they are more annoyed with an attitude displayed by some, rather than the action itself, and perhaps it might require an introspective view of what is going on rather than just the hovering. I have my flame suit on and am ready for whatever the young guns want to dish out. I for one know plenty of old farts, and most of them are a joy to be around, and are a wealth of knowledge not only about building models but about the history behind the planes. They are not a bad bunch at all.
Old 09-22-2010, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: DocYates

Thank God for Old Farts!
Now as to 3D flying...perhaps they are more annoyed with an attitude displayed by some, rather than the action itself, and perhaps it might require an introspective view of what is going on rather than just the hovering. I have my flame suit on and am ready for whatever the young guns want to dish out. I for one know plenty of old farts, and most of them are a joy to be around, and are a wealth of knowledge not only about building models but about the history behind the planes. They are not a bad bunch at all.

Wonderful and thoughtful post. You sir need no 'flame suit'.

John
Old 09-22-2010, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: 3D flying

Once i was the new guy now at 62 I'm one of the "old farts" If we stay long enough we all become "old farts". I still love to watch any kind of flying, new or old style. Dennis
Old 09-22-2010, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: DocYates

I really love how the OP has decided this is all about old fart$ as he calls them and how they are the only ones who cause the problems. I thought I might define an old fart as most of us know them....they are not as bad as most of you might think....


I'm passing this on as I did not want to be the only old fart receiving it. Actually, it's not a bad thing to be called, as you will see. Old Farts are easy to spot at sporting events; during the playing of the National Anthem. Old Farts remove their caps and stand at attention and sing without embarrassment. They know the words and believe in them.

Old Farts remember World War II, Pearl Harbour , Guadalcanal , Normandy and Hitler. They remember the Atomic Age, the Korean War, The Cold War, the Jet Age and the Moon Landing. They remember the 50 plus Peacekeeping Missions from 1945 to 2005, not to mention Vietnam .

If you bump into an Old Fart on the sidewalk he will apologize. If you pass an Old Fart on the street, he will nod or tip his cap to a lady. Old Farts trust strangers and are courtly to women.

Old Farts hold the door for the next person and always, when walking, make certain the lady is on the inside for protection.

Old Farts get embarrassed if someone curses in front of women and children and they don't like any filth or dirty language on TV or in movies.

Old Farts have moral courage and personal integrity. They seldom brag unless it's about their children or grandchildren.

It's the Old Farts who know our great country is protected, not by politicians, but by the young men and women in the military serving their country.

This country needs Old Farts with their work ethic, sense of responsibility, pride in their country and decent values.

We need them now more than ever.

Thank God for Old Farts!
Now as to 3D flying...perhaps they are more annoyed with an attitude displayed by some, rather than the action itself, and perhaps it might require an introspective view of what is going on rather than just the hovering. I have my flame suit on and am ready for whatever the young guns want to dish out. I for one know plenty of old farts, and most of them are a joy to be around, and are a wealth of knowledge not only about building models but about the history behind the planes. They are not a bad bunch at all.
All that being said, what gives you the right to dictate how other people will fly. Just because you are old does not give you the right to tell other people how to live there lives. You are old , but you are not God.
For the record, I am not young nor am I old I'm somewhere in the middle so I have those value's you spoke of, but I fail to see where that gives you the right to run other peoples lives. I thought this was the USA, land of the free.
Old 09-22-2010, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

I did not say it gave anyone the right to do anything. What I am referring to however is the fact that "old farts", as some of you refer to them, have as much to offer as anyone else. They are not worthless to the club nor to the modeler. If you want to legitimize your argument with me, stop referring to them based upon their action, but rather their actions. There are just as many people of a younger age who do not like the noise, or other things, and there are just as many young arrogant people as there are older ones/
Old 09-22-2010, 12:56 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

Rcplanenut, this is going off topic but how to you get what doc said as dictating how you should fly? Doc is one of the nicest people to fly with you'll ever meet. I know he's been to my field before. Take a deep breath and relax. Dennis
Old 09-22-2010, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

GREAT Post DocYates,

BUT you did forget to mention this,

If it weren't for the "old farts" there wouldn't be any "young farts" to complain about the "old farts"!

And some day THEY will be the "old farts".......
Old 09-22-2010, 07:22 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

DocYates can type and type. ............................... about nothing that this post is addressing. Doc, I am sure you are a nice guy, don't get offended by the old word. I am sure he is refering to the group that like to make rules just to make rules. Their hobby no longer flying, it is killing the fun of the hobby. Most are anti 3D due to they just can not understand. But not all. We have a 70+ year old that started trying 3D after turning 70. He fould the love of 3D.

Look, I understand why the 3D haters are there. They have a very nice airplane flying or just sitting on the ground. You know to nice to fly. Then some guy has the nerve to fly in a 3D manner and have fun. Its not his fault people stop looking at the pretty planes and see the skill of the 3D flyer. It is not his fault. It is not the fault the other flyers can not fly safe like that and I am glad they do not try. Overall the dangers of the circleflyers over the 3Ders is larger but we should not ban them from flying.

Crash99
www.circleflyers.com


Old 09-22-2010, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: crash99

Look, I understand why the 3D haters are there. They have a very nice airplane flying or just sitting on the ground. You know to nice to fly. Then some guy has the nerve to fly in a 3D manner and have fun. Its not his fault people stop looking at the pretty planes and see the skill of the 3D flyer. It is not his fault. It is not the fault the other flyers can not fly safe like that and I am glad they do not try. Overall the dangers of the circleflyers over the 3Ders is larger but we should not ban them from flying.

Crash99
www.circleflyers.com
You seem to promote the very same hate and division you protest. I don't get it. Maybe I'm getting too close to old fartdom? I like to fly IMAc sequences. Pretty boring stuff spectator-wise but it takes some skill and control. Does it meet your approval even though it's not very attention getting and "extreme"?

Actually, I don't give a rat's arse what the folks/rif-raf in the pits think (well, unless they happen to be judges for the round) . I fly for my enjoyment, not theirs.
Old 09-22-2010, 08:16 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

I have a hard time understanding how a couple of non-flying "Old Fart$" can get a rule passed if the rest of the group doesn't have a problem with it. You have to have the support of the majority of the voting members either way. If you honestly believe that they may vote for a ban then a couple of vocal old guys are not the issue. You need to get the rest talking about what the problems are that they have with your flying style and either ease their fears or find a middle ground, or you could just try Crash's approach. Tell them that just because it would be unsafe for them to fly that way you are so much better that it's safe when you do it. If they question potential malfunction or radio interference, just refer them back to the first point. It seems to work for Crash.
Old 09-22-2010, 09:29 PM
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ORIGINAL: cfircav8r

I have a hard time understanding how a couple of non-flying ''Old Fart$'' can get a rule passed if the rest of the group doesn't have a problem with it. You have to have the support of the majority of the voting members either way. If you honestly believe that they may vote for a ban then a couple of vocal old guys are not the issue. You need to get the rest talking about what the problems are that they have with your flying style and either ease their fears or find a middle ground, or you could just try Crash's approach. Tell them that just because it would be unsafe for them to fly that way you are so much better that it's safe when you do it. If they question potential malfunction or radio interference, just refer them back to the first point. It seems to work for Crash.
Yes you are correct, I am trying to get the votes I need and I believe we will be able to.The purpose of my post was to get ideas to help my cause which it has. The fear I have is that the people who attend the meetings where this will be voted on is usually attended by mostly non-flying members(also refered to as Old %#$@) I will try to stop using that term because my intension is not to offend anyone but to gather information. I am talking with the flying members and encouraging attendance of the meeting.
Old 09-22-2010, 09:58 PM
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I hope you are successful. I firmly believe that the true majority needs to decide what is in the best interest of the club, and not just the ones willing to attend all the meetings. I have been in both types of clubs and have had to find my own fields on occasion. Sometimes it sucks but if you love flying then you find a way.
Old 09-22-2010, 10:45 PM
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I hope you are successful. I firmly believe that the true majority needs to decide what is in the best interest of the club, and not just the ones willing to attend all the meetings.
I guess you could say there is a fault in your thinking, even though I agree that the majority should rule. That being said however, the majority is the group that does show up at meetings and votes. rcplanenut needs to get more people who feel as he does to go to meetings and vote, and I said as much earlier in my post #21. I may be old but I have mentored the younger guys in my club and taught them the merits of going to meetings and voting. They took control of the treasury, and one is now President.

And to those that are so quick to "label" all older members, Please stop the "old fart" stereotyping, we're not ALL bad........
Old 09-22-2010, 10:58 PM
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Yes, I should have specified The majority of the members, not just the attendees. And yes a true majority will involve getting as many of the members to the meeting as possible. I suppose urging the club officers to hold it at a time when the most members can attend, and convincing as many members possible to attend is your only hope of a true majority rule. I also am getting to be one of the old crowd, I was teaching guys to fly when Kraft was the big name and Futaba was that cheap plastic junk from japan.
Old 09-23-2010, 01:20 PM
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cfircav8r is correct. With all the circleflyers vs. 3Ders aside. Use that the 3Ders, as a whole have a much better safety record than circleflyers. It is not a put down it is a factor a club must look at. I have seen more on the warbird events where a guy has radio or just something brakes going I would guess, 70Mph or so. It have to hit somewhere going in a forward motion. Where 3D is going so much slower. Again it is not a put down. 70mph vs. 3 mph.

Look I have www.circleflyers.com as a page for humor from a 3D hater thread a month or so back. Eveny item listed came from the thread. I hate to see the only group growing excluding I think park flyers get ban from a club. I also would hate to see warbirds get ban from a club. I can only tell you here in Eldon Missouri we have no problems. We all get along.

Crash99
Old 09-23-2010, 07:54 PM
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Crash I understand your thinking, however a plane hovering 20' from other pilots with a chainsaw sized engine slinging a 22" prop at upwards of 9800rpm can be extremely dangerous. They have the potential to be just as unsafe if operated in an unsafe manner. All but one of the injuries I have seen in this hobby have been due to the prop, the other was an idiot that ran into himself with a slope glider. The problem with bad attitudes towards 3D'ers arises when you have an individual that believes their skill will counter any potential risk. Most do not like their safety compromised by someone elses arrogance or poor judgement, as it is usually seen. 3D tends to appeal to adreneline junkies that may not have the best judgement. Now before you get upset understand I am in no way saying even the majority fall into this category. What I am saying is that the perpetrators of this tend to be the ones that are giving 3D a bad name. You have been doing a great disservice to this portion of the hobby by stating over and over how those that have issue with the close proximity are either ignorant or incapable. Obviously you did not start out with this attitude at your field, as I can guarantee that had you joined your club with the "like it or your a loser" attitude it would be a totaly different story.
Old 09-23-2010, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: 3D flying

Add to that they might be slow to get out of the way and bump into a full scalebi-plane or something.

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