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Why does the AMA have to grow?

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Why does the AMA have to grow?

Old 09-22-2010, 12:52 PM
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tinner1
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Default Why does the AMA have to grow?

I have read countless arguments on countless threads about "Why the AMA is not growing" but I have a question with another view....Why does the AMA have to grow? A business/corporation needs to grow to pay its shareholders, and in turn grow year after year to provide dividends again year after year. But does the AMA really "need" to grow? It is by mission statement a "non profit organization" so it doesn't need to show a profit or pay its shareholders, so why so much interest/concern put on "growing". Doesn't it do what it is was originally designed to do without an increase in membership? I am not asking this sarcastically, but would appreciate posts stating why a lot of posters feel the "need" for the AMA to grow. And PLEASE lets not let THIS thread become about the IRS status of the AMA, that is the farthest thing from what I am asking here......
Old 09-22-2010, 01:06 PM
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Jim Thomerson
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

I'm sort of a collectivist, I suppose. The AMA is the official recognized model aircraft organization in the USA. With parkfliers, etc, there is an increasingly large segment of people in model aviation who are not AMA members. There is concern that these "outlaw" people may unknowingly do harm to all of model aviation. This is one reason. The other is that the AMA offers benefits to AMA members (sanctioend competitions, official national and world records, etc.) which are not available to the non AMA modeler.

I saw my second parkflier a couple of weeks back, flying on the soccer field next to our control line club field.
Old 09-22-2010, 01:17 PM
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K-Bob
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

The only reason I can come up with is that increased numbers = increased clout. Other than that I see no need to wine, dine, cajole and change to attract a group (Parkies)thatare notoriously reluctant to join the AMA at any cost or benefit. Same goesfor the terminally malcontent.

Wow, Jim Tomerson. You have spotted the rare and elusive park flyer? I have yet to see one even though I keep a sharp eye out for them. Do they come out at dawn or do they congregate at dusk?

Old 09-22-2010, 01:24 PM
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tinner1
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

So far both you guys are thinking along the same lines that I am. I still would like to hear from the guys that are always saying the AMA isn't growing. You must have reasons you think it should grow?.....
Old 09-22-2010, 01:49 PM
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DR.B.S.
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

AMA has to pay employees and the Executive Director gets paid in the six figures. The greatest source of income is from membership dues. AMA lost 30,000 members in the past few years. Multiply $58 times 30,000.

Fliers1
Old 09-22-2010, 01:58 PM
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Luchnia
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?


ORIGINAL: tinner1

I have read countless arguments on countless threads about ''Why the AMA is not growing'' but I have a question with another view....Why does the AMA have to grow? A business/corporation needs to grow to pay its shareholders, and in turn grow year after year to provide dividends again year after year. But does the AMA really ''need'' to grow? It is by mission statement a ''non profit organization'' so it doesn't need to show a profit or pay its shareholders, so why so much interest/concern put on ''growing''. Doesn't it do what it is was originally designed to do without an increase in membership? I am not asking this sarcastically, but would appreciate posts stating why a lot of posters feel the ''need'' for the AMA to grow. And PLEASE lets not let THIS thread become about the IRS status of the AMA, that is the farthest thing from what I am asking here......
Well, the AMA does not have to grow, but isn't growth part of the objective of any org? It really depends on what is considered as growth. I think if you set any type of goals you will have some sort of growth. I guess some consider growth as not always being financial returns.

Maybe growing is just a part of the natural process and when they are not hitting their marks they don't feel they are growing. Most for profit business can make a profit but if they don't make more profit the next year they consider that not growing. I am thinking if you make a profit why does it always have to be more than last years?
Old 09-22-2010, 02:31 PM
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

Is this about Growth, or stopping shrinkage?
Lots of things we can guess are behind Muncie wanting the shrinkage to stop:
If we paid ~50 folks ~$2.5mil salaries for ~150k members
how many of them paid muncie folks are we gonna have to fire if we drop to 70k members?

Its the oldest story in the book,
cut spending or raise taxes dues
Old 09-22-2010, 02:36 PM
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joebahl
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

I am not sure why it is not growing,maybe because of all of the job loss we have seen in the last 3 or 4 years . I have been a member for a long time and i hope my sons and their sons or daughters can have a ama in the future to belong to when iam gone. K-bob we meet at dusk at my club field friday night and fly park flyers ,and old timers too !
Old 09-22-2010, 03:09 PM
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tinner1
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

Is this about Growth, or stopping shrinkage?
Good posts so far guys....But PLEASE this is NOT another "Why the AMA is not growing" but rather "Why does it have to grow." The points about wages and costs going up is a very good reason for at least a resonable growth. But would AMA's "purpose" be affected if no appreciable growth happens?
Old 09-22-2010, 03:15 PM
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KidEpoxy
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

ok,
I can repackage my comment to fit that

Some folks could see a need for AMA to grow
to justify creating more salaried Job For Life positions for former EC fellows
Old 09-22-2010, 03:44 PM
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joebahl
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

The ama needs to grow to replace us in the hobby,if it does not get new members it means that people who were interested enough in the past are not getting interested now. The hobby is the same the people have changed . joe
Old 09-22-2010, 03:53 PM
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tinner1
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

KidEpoxy

My post wasn't aimed at you. I agree'd (your post #7) that an increase in members is needed to meet growing economic venues. Who gets that money is another thread altogether....I just "in general" am trying to keep this thread "on topic". So far opinions and facts have been posted, and no personal attacks! GREAT!!!

Luchnia

I guess some consider growth as not always being financial returns.
I'm sorry to add confusion with one of my references. I meant corporations and financial gains as a representative of growth in the business world, not the world of modeling. I didn't mean to imply the AMA should show financial growth. MY bad....But you are right with your comment about growth.
Old 09-22-2010, 03:58 PM
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tinner1
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

joe,

If I understand you correctly, you are saying growth to replace lost members is needed to keep the AMA "alive"? Kinda like growth is good but we have to at least keep refreshing lost membership.
Old 09-22-2010, 04:14 PM
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?


ORIGINAL: joebahl

The ama needs to grow to replace us in the hobby,if it does not get new members it means that people who were interested enough in the past are not getting interested now. The hobby is the same the people have changed . joe

Well, simple replacement of us old farts dying off does not require growing. It could be a zero sum game. We lose one and gain one. No net growth, yet the organization survives.
Old 09-22-2010, 04:20 PM
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joebahl
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

Yep to both tinner and to keep our hobby alive. With out our type of hobbys arfs and rtf are going to take over soon . Its just not in the hobbys either ,I was a carpenter for 30 years and from what i have seen coming out of my union latly there are very few craftsmen left and getting fewer and fewer every year. People dont know how or dont have time to craft any thing any more ,or thats their excuse. If they are taught or seen hand built planes they might want to learn how to build one . just my thoughts and you might not agree . I can say i have done my best to get new blood in the hobby and the ama and not just talked about it here on the forums. joe
Old 09-22-2010, 04:32 PM
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

Tinner do you think it needs to grow,stay the same or loose members till it goes away . Some thought from you on this? joe
Old 09-22-2010, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

Sounds like the TRS-80 clubs shortly after the IBM-PC was introduced. Face it, ARFs and RTFs are here to stay and that is the way most people getting into the hobby are going.
Old 09-22-2010, 04:49 PM
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

I rest my case ,lol tinner ,and they are getting in to the ama for the cheap insurance too.lol I got off topic and i am sorry tinner ,It seems i cant post any thing without a ferret finding me . good bye to all and good bye. joe
Old 09-22-2010, 05:03 PM
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

I am betting if it weren't for the insurance many of the hardline AMAers would quit.
Old 09-22-2010, 05:04 PM
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?


ORIGINAL: dbcisco

Sounds like the TRS-80 clubs shortly after the IBM-PC was introduced. Face it, ARFs and RTFs are here to stay and that is the way most people getting into the hobby are going.
I think ARFs and RTFs are great. I may want to built a kit one day, but right now I am tickled with my ARFs and the real plus is for a guy at my age that works a lot of hours I can go fly on the weekends. Really cool for someone like me. I have a plan to build a kit when I retire, but who knows.

I think there might be a growth problem for AMA going forward and it is hard to call I am sure. For some of us I think it is just a wait and see attitude. I do believe in promoting the hobby, whether AMA is the key to that, I am simply not sure at all.
Old 09-22-2010, 05:09 PM
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tinner1
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

Hi Joe,

I would LOVE to see the AMA grow, HOWEVER after being a member for 50 years I see it as staying about the same. Over time it gains a few members, then loses some, but it is still here, and I hope it always will be. If it does need to grow for any reason, IMHO, that is for the reason that was stated by K-Bob, increased clout. The more members we have the better chance we have of someone taking us seriously. As long as the general public see us as a small group, we will get treated as such. And I agree with some posters who don't want to make drastic changes just to get the parkfliers and new people involved. "Giving away the farm" is no way to keep it and make it grow. The ones that would be brought in by lower dues, special memberships etc, won't stay the course. Over time it has been my experience that people don't "take up" modeling for a hobby. They are modelers who have found model airplanes. I have taught many people to build and fly, but only a handful stay with it a long time. And most modelers I know don't just do airplanes, they do cars, trains, and even painting. All things creative.

I love ALL forms of modeling, and if you or others have read my posts on other threads, you know I do everything I can to get kids/people involved. But lets face it we are sort of an "underground" hobby. I wish I had a nickle for every person I took with me to the field and showed what RC/modeling was about. They are ALL ALWAYS impressed and say it is way more interesting than they thought. Unfortunately we are looked at as adults playing with toys by the general public. What they see are the ready to fly, sometimes "toy" airplanes that kids fly and they think we do the same. And because of the remoteness of our fields, we are sort of "underground". I don't blame the AMA for that image but rather the publics ignorance. If a person doesn't do something, they are not prone to support that activity. I know a lot of people who hate golfers, I golf but don't pay any attention to them. Lets face it modeling, RC to be specific, is a rough hobby to belong to. It takes time and dedication to stay in it and not quit. Todays youth doesn't have the staying power in very much, so the future of the AMA is always in question. I'd love to see it grow, but I don't think it "HAS TO" just to servive. I've been in it 50 years, and for 50 years there have been those that say the AMA is dying......But it is still here.

Bet you're sorry you asked me to elaborate on my views......
Old 09-22-2010, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

The AMA could continue to exist even if it eventually shrinks down to a single insurance agent operating out of a broom closet and serving 100 members.
Old 09-22-2010, 05:18 PM
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tinner1
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?

As usual a post comes up about the AMA being about insurance, which is one small part of the AMAs purpose. I have never seen anyone post the number of AMA members that fly something BESIDES RC, like control line, free flight, rubber powered, towline glider, hand launch glider, indoor hand launch, jet assist, penny plane, peanut scale, etc etc. You get the picture. I'm sure a guy flying indoor microfilm didn't join for the insurance, and would still be a member if it were dropped.

AGAIN can we PLEASE keep the comments to "Why does the AMA have to grow".

There are other threads to discuss those other topics, Thank You.
Old 09-22-2010, 05:25 PM
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Luchnia
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?


ORIGINAL: tinner1
Bet you're sorry you asked me to elaborate on my views......
I, for one, am glad you elaborated on your views. You made some excellent points and well received. I think you are right in implying that the AMA does not have to grow. It can continue to exist.

I think the AMA is a decent org, but I am not sure I would have joined had it not been a requirement for me to fly at the local clubs. As a matter of fact, I don't think I would have joined. As I stated in another form, I am neither for nor against the AMA.

I sort of would like to see some competition for the AMA as that would be healthy and if there were any "deadbeats" they would have to get off of it and jump to the challenge [X(]
Old 09-22-2010, 05:32 PM
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Default RE: Why does the AMA have to grow?


ORIGINAL: joebahl

Yep to both tinner and to keep our hobby alive. With out our type of hobbys arfs and rtf are going to take over soon . Its just not in the hobbys either ,I was a carpenter for 30 years and from what i have seen coming out of my union latly there are very few craftsmen left and getting fewer and fewer every year. People dont know how or dont have time to craft any thing any more ,or thats their excuse. If they are taught or seen hand built planes they might want to learn how to build one . just my thoughts and you might not agree . I can say i have done my best to get new blood in the hobby and the ama and not just talked about it here on the forums. joe

I think that the main group that has left the AMA and the hobby are probably those who fly the ARF and RTF's. They grow bored, and leave, pretty much as they came. The die hard builders are not going anywhere.

The AMA does not need to grow, any more than a club needs to grow. More members mean more ability to hire people to work in Muncie, and with fewer members, you see some employees out of work. I don't build and fly model airplanes in order to provide employment for anyone in Indiana.

What would be wrong with a smaller, leaner AMA? Maybe one that would actually consider that the membership means something other than an annual check for 58 bucks.

Bill, AMA 4720

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