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1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

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1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

Old 08-07-2003, 01:47 AM
  #26  
J_R
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

Abel

The topic of this thread is THIS case. It is, indeed, history, as are all the specifics directly related to it.

The topic of insurance in general, rules, dues, etc, etc are constantly being rehashed in this forum.

I can't see a point to allowing folks to proceed to go into a tither over something they perceive to be current, that actually occurred years ago. I always manage to learn from your posts, so lead on.

JR
Old 08-07-2003, 03:46 AM
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

Didn't the incident happen in CA? If so I can imagine that having a lot to do with the amount and how they would pay it out.

I bet if the same incident happened in CA and the same exact one in a midwestern state (for example) the odds of you gettng a much larger payout would be in CA.

Insurance companies aren't dumb - they know when they have the law on their side and know when they are in an area that "supports" lawsuits as such..... Just something to think about - I mean you think CA pays a lot more for car insurance for the heck of it?
Old 08-07-2003, 01:32 PM
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

It never hurts to debate on things that have past. We can learn from history. Many people still debate Roe V. Wade, Brown v. Board of Education, and I still constantly defend the honorable Senator McCarthy in current day political/legal debates. Debating this is good for the future of AMA.

So where do I weigh in on this one?

AMA doesn't really claim to be an insurance company. However, they do offer insurance (much like an employer covering you while you are at work). If this guy flew the plane and knew there was a problem before flight then AMA should not have to cover anything. However if this was an accident that happened at an AMA field then AMA should assume all responsibility. I understand that the explanation is faulty equipment as well as a non proper pre flight inspection. Faulty equipment should be covered by AMA. A preflight inspection is serious business but please understand that it might be hard to determine if a super high G level is going to break something. Case Scenario: You are flying at an event and your elevator snaps off in a "Wall" your plane races forward and hits you are someone else. This is faulty equipment, however how many people do a structural test of there elevator before every flight. Usually you just move the surfaces and if all looks fine then you go for it. I would hate to know that the service I had been paying for wouldn't cover me.
Old 08-07-2003, 02:33 PM
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

Originally posted by J_R
Abel

The topic of this thread is THIS case. It is, indeed, history, as are all the specifics directly related to it.

The topic of insurance in general, rules, dues, etc, etc are constantly being rehashed in this forum.

I can't see a point to allowing folks to proceed to go into a tither over something they perceive to be current, that actually occurred years ago. I always manage to learn from your posts, so lead on.

JR
JR-
The specific case is unusual only in that can be discussed because some of the particulars have been disclosed. Save the details, the story gets repeated over and over, but usually shrouded by confidentiality agreements that allow the legal extortion to take place away from public scrutiny. The issue is current and has a large impact on what AMA is and will become; the example is not current and details of most like it never will be known outside of a small circle. The parasites that feast on our investment in AMA well know it is in their best interest to dine in the dark.
I'm sure it would generate more interest, and consequently awareness, if a more contemporaneous case of this ilk were the topic of discussion. Can you, via your contacts with insiders that hash them over in 'executive session' bring a current/recent case to the forum?

Abel
Old 08-07-2003, 03:31 PM
  #30  
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

Abel

My contacts within the AMA are nothing that any AMA member can not have. Insurance cases are discussed in closed session and no member of the EC is going to relate the information to me. If for no other reason, the nondisclosure agreements would prohibit it.

On the other hand, Dave Brown occasionally exposes cases without the details in his column that might be suitable for discussion.

One of my concerns is that insurance cases here tend to take on a life of their own. If you go back in this forum, you will find the case where the fellow in AZ died after being struck with his own plane. The forum had his family suing the AMA, until Carl Maroney made a rare appearance on RCU and said that it was not so. As recently as two weeks ago, I had a club member come up to me and ask me about the modeler that had been killed by his own plane at the Basin here in CA. It was the same exact story, but, with the time and place changed. His source was the net.

I agree that dissecting the case at hand can not hurt anything. I was just trying to keep the "rumor" from starting that it was a current situation. I still bet we hear about it at the field within months as a current case. I think there is a burden on all of us not to propagate misinformation. Discussing facts can do nothing but good. It's the speculation that gets out of hand and creates misinformation.

JR
Old 08-07-2003, 07:39 PM
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

Originally posted by J_R


SINP
.. I think there is a burden on all of us not to propagate misinformation. Discussing facts can do nothing but good. It's the speculation that gets out of hand and creates misinformation.

JR
You are correct there is a burden on all true leaders to avoid the spread of misinformation. It actually becomes a long term burden to repair the damage that misinformation does to the hobby and the AMA. As you have seen, some days that seems like a full time job. Discussing facts is always good, if everyone has the facts which is frequently a problem.

The speculation issue is one of the biggest reasons that many AMA EC members are not seen on forums like this one. Too many 'anti-AMA' folks use the speculative misinformation as a basis to launch baseless attacks on any and all AMA members. The AMA EC members have these targets painted on their backs and represent juicy targets to these folks.

The 'rest of the story' on that same issue is that too many times those with information use thinly veiled personal attacks to keep the covers on what should be public information or what they do not wish to have know by the pond scum represented by us humble members. I am sure many have seen these types of actions. You know the old 'you need professional help' line seen far and wide.
Old 08-07-2003, 08:43 PM
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Default Agree

I must agree with TheEdge, Now in saying that should there be a separation on AMA for Control Line Membership and Radio Control Membership?

There must be a greater risk with Control line due to the space to the pilots and others than the Radio control pilots.

I think the most of up fly R/C and not control line. Maybe there should a different rate in the portion of the membership that covers the insurance.

There is a reason there is insurance for good drivers and high risk insurance for higher risk drivers.

Thanks
Crash99
Old 08-07-2003, 10:01 PM
  #33  
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

Hi crash99

It seems to me you may be on to something. Since no other statistics are available to us, let's use you as our data base. Going backward chronologically, recount the last 100 accidents you have heard of or seen and classify them by the domain where they happened. i.e. RC, C/L, indoor rubber, etc. Maybe we can suggest to the AMA that they rate the insurance based on the data you can supply. Only one admonishment.. no fudging.

JR
Old 08-08-2003, 01:32 PM
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

{I can't see a point to allowing folks to proceed to go into a tither over something they perceive to be current, that actually occurred years ago. ]


He who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it.
Old 08-09-2003, 06:51 AM
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

If this case isn't the reason we have insurance at events than what is? Everyone at an AMA event is required to have insurance for this very reason. When someone get's injured there is no question that everyone is insured and the injured party is not just going after the deep pockets.

Regarding the award. How much would I have to pay you to let me break your leg so badly that it would take 11 surgeries to fix? How much pain, discomfort, loss of work and permanent damage would you endure for that amount of money? I'm sure if he could turn the clock back and not have the injury and money he would.

The indignation in this thread about someone being compensated for their injury is ludicrous. If it was a relative of yours you'd want them compensated and it is the reason we have insurance in the first place, why not use it in this situation.
Old 08-09-2003, 12:00 PM
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Default greater risk

But you have to agree control line has a greater risk that R/C.

Crash99
Old 08-09-2003, 02:01 PM
  #37  
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Default Re: greater risk

Originally posted by crash99
But you have to agree control line has a greater risk that R/C.

Crash99
I can recall several deaths through the years attributed to RC. I can not recall one due to CL. That does not mean there has never been one, just that I am unaware of it. I don't see what your trying to say. Maybe I just don't have a sense of humor when it comes to people getting hurt. What are you trying to say?

JR
Old 08-09-2003, 03:54 PM
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by crash99
But you have to agree control line has a greater risk that R/C.

Crash99 }
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No
Old 08-09-2003, 06:08 PM
  #39  
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Default Re: greater risk

Originally posted by crash99
But you have to agree control line has a greater risk that R/C.

Crash99
Not AT ALL!!!

I flew CL for at least 10 years before I started flying R/C.

I've lost a couple R/C planes due to wings folding, or elevator control failing.

I had one CL plane's outboard wing fold IN FLIGHT. The plane bobbled around a little until the outboard wing separated from the rest of the plane, but due to the tension on the lines holding the inboard wing and the rest of the plane level, I was able to CONTINUE TO FLY THE PLANE even still doing aerobatics such as loops 8's & inverted flight until it ran out of fuel and glided to a safe landing. Had that been an R/C plane, the wing folding in flight would have resulted in an uncontrolled crash possibly hitting somebody or something of value. With the CL plane, the ONLY thing to go off uncontrolled was the outboard wing which only fluttered about 10 feet, and never made it even off the blacktop CL flying circle the plane was flying over.

How many R/C planes has anybody EVER seen continue to SAFELY and controllably fly AFTER having the wing fold in flight??? I've NEVER seen or heard of it happening, although I've seen SEVERAL instances of a in-flight wing failure resulting in a crash.

I had one CL plane kwik link on the elevator break in flight. When that happens with R/C, the plane is coming down and the pilot has absolutely no control over where it goes. With the Cl plane, it went down, but still remained in the same area as it would have likely landed at the intended end of the flight.

With R/C, even the person piloting the aircraft is at about the SAME risk of being hit by his aircraft as anybody else watching.

With CL, about the ONLY way the airplane's pilot is at risk of being struck by his own plane is if he were pulling up into a wing-over, and the engine sagged enough to cause the plane to fall down on top of the pilot.
Old 08-09-2003, 10:32 PM
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

Well stated rcmodelr I too flew CL extensively for 12 years. During that time CL was very popular with many more participants than RC. I entered numerous contests including three AMA nats. During that time I was never aware of a fatality.
Most accidents were of the ongoing finger vs prop variety.

I did see a couple of incidents where an inexperienced or over zealous crewman in rat racing or combat was struck, but nothing requiring hospitalization.

As you noted even the very rare fly away in cl is not going far.

On the other hand a RC model with an inexperienced pilot can pose a serious danger over quite a distance. In the event of mechanical or radio failure we have a potentialy deadly missle traveling in a randim direction for an unpredictable distance.
Old 09-03-2003, 10:43 PM
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Default 1.3 mil award to control line accident victim

I fly at the Whittier Narrows Field. Our R/C field is in the relatively same quadrant as the C/L combat and speed area. This particular speed ring does indeed have a fenced cage. However this cage was added a few years ago. It could have been added after the accident.

Dan

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