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AMA Leader Members or "Wanna Bees"

Old 06-16-2011, 06:39 AM
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Hossfly
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Default AMA Leader Members or "Wanna Bees"

If you are a Leader Member, there is a place where Leader Members can converse. The AMA Forums have such a forum however you have to be awarded the proper handshake by a Mr. Brent - [email protected] - before you can even see that forum when you are on the main AMA Forum.
This has been a well kept secret, however the cat is now out of the bag, so go for it. There are some very interesting thoughts being kicked around there.

Now if you would like to be a Leader Member, there are prescriptions in the AMA Documents - http://www.modelaircraft.org/documents.aspx - that provide the details. Now if you have problems with those requirements, about all you need to do is to contact your AMA District Vice President, and he can arrange for waivers of most requirements if he should care to do so. Git muh drift thar, Ol' Pard?

Leader Members may not do much other than vote on changes to AMA Bylaws, however IMO if more members would get interested and join in, I can see the possibility of making some changes for better representation with the EC policy makers. They are all "Leader Members" and so why not join their somewhat exclusive club? I did back in 1964.
Old 06-16-2011, 07:57 AM
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Silent-AV8R
 
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

BTW, and Horrace knows this because he reads everything, the AMA has a committee that is working on developing new programs or ways for Leader Members to be far more engaged than they currently are. I think there are members that are not even aware what a Leader Member is, and the AMA wants to change that. They are also looking at tightening up the requirements to become a Leader Member. Right now as long as the DVP sings off on you then you pretty much can become a LM.
Old 06-16-2011, 07:34 PM
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Hossfly
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

BTW, and Horrace knows this because he reads everything, .....
Hey, Man, just trying to keep up with YOUR ADVICE: "Be aware and prepared, or pay the price of ignorance."


the AMA has a committee that is working on developing new programs or ways for Leader Members to be far more engaged than they currently are. I think there are members that are not even aware what a Leader Member is, and the AMA wants to change that. They are also looking at tightening up the requirements to become a Leader Member.
'Atta way ta GO! Already for 1 year they have had an unadvertised forum for Leader Members, with many highly Pro AMA types like You, Bill, and that is not a drag, it simply means you are loyal to the core, which is a very respectiful trait, yet you were left out of their little group until I investigated and spilled the beans big time. OTOH I think I am as loyal as can be to AMA, but to the organization rather than any whomever may be in charge, just because he/she is in charge.

As Roald Reagan so stated: "Concentrated Power has always been the enemy of Liberty."

Right now as long as the DVP sings off on you then you pretty much can become a LM.
Regardless of the so called tighten-up - IMO it means to bring in more yes-men - do you think any EVP, DVP, Director, CEO, etc., etc., Legislator etc., is going to support giving up that ultimate power? Do you really? I haven't seen it in my 75 years. Tightening up the wagon circle can work, just not for Custer as he had no wagons, however it means to me that there is some sensed danger and they don't want to allow any leaks.
Old 06-16-2011, 09:27 PM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

Yep...just as I predicted. AMA will continue to morph into a secret society. There will be the members and there will be the real members... A real turn-off for sure. Oh well, to hell with it.
Old 06-17-2011, 06:46 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

They are also looking at tightening up the requirements to become a Leader Member. Right now as long as the DVP sings off on you then you pretty much can become a LM.
I see a lot of that.
Folks have the notion that the acceptance into LM is just that you get the endorsements (or the waiver & waiver district endrun).
Even if there were no endorsements and no waivers for endorsements/years,
the actual petition for LM is still a subjective evaluation of ones resume in regard to the 3 fields
... or perhaps just the nod that a resume was turned in for folks that are old, and good, and boys

Even without the subjective district endruns to the endorsements and years,
the petition is still in the realm of
subjective nod-wink to folks they want in
and subjective Dont-Feel-Like-Letting-You-In-Our-Secret-Society for those they dont want in.


Just what is the table of objective metric standards for petitions for the Scientific leader?
Do you just have to post a plane design plan to the internet
or do you have to have a element on the periodic table named after you?
Well, that actually is not an objective evaluation at all,
its just if a petition makes them feel like letting someone in.
Old 06-17-2011, 06:54 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

Hoss
Leader Members may not do much other than vote on changes to AMA Bylaws,
Keeping folks out of the LM clique with subjective standards
is another way to control who is allowed on the AMA ballots

We no likee,
you no runee



Dont you have first hand experience with the
We didnt bother reading your resume before denying you
way some things are done at muncie
Old 06-17-2011, 09:29 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

I have a fun spin on this; the newest Large Model Aircraft (LMA) former "EXPERIEMENTAL" aircraft allows for a LM to sign off witnessing a test flight of a model over 55 pounds.

According to AMA staff they cannot tell me who the leader members are due to privacy reasons.

So I need a Leader member to fly my plane but I can't find out who they are!

I have made some suggestions to the program.

Tom AMA 8026, CD LMAI, Intro Pilot
Old 06-17-2011, 09:42 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Hoss
Dont you have first hand experience with the
We didnt bother reading your resume before denying you
way some things are done at muncie
Right On, KE. BTDT

What hurt me the most at that time, was that two EC members that I considered friends had a conversation with me after their closed nominating meeting (I was at that EC meeting) and neither mentioned the official 3 selections. One I asked, and he "...couldn't remember." The other I had lunch with, I didn't ask, and he did not mention it. You never know just who will keep important information from you. Heck, I could have been back in Texas 3 hours earlier.
Old 06-17-2011, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or


ORIGINAL: Hossfly

'Atta way ta GO! Already for 1 year they have had an unadvertised forum for Leader Members, with many highly Pro AMA types like You, Bill, and that is not a drag, it simply means you are loyal to the core, which is a very respectiful trait, yet you were left out of their little group until I investigated and spilled the beans big time.
To be honest Horrace all you did was remind me that the forum existed. The forum was mentioned by Frank in an article in the AMA Insider, but I either missed it or forgot about it. I am indeed loyal, but not mindlessly so. I see things as I see them and make my decisions based on that.
Old 06-17-2011, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

got what i think was the 4th email so far about the 75th anniversary shindig up in muncie. have gotten at least 2 snail mail invites/reservation request to that so far as well. but, could they send out even one email and one snail mail announcement about the leader member forum to each leader member. so far, no, that must be too costly to do.
Old 06-17-2011, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

I see the anti establishment people are back at it again.

Being a leader member does not make you part of some Exclusive AMA underground Fraternity. It just means you have taken the time to be more involved with the hobby and AMA. Not anyone can qualify to be a Leader Member. Anyone may apply. But you have to meet criteria that awards you the privilege to be an AMA leader member. You don't need to know the "good o’l boys" as described above. You merely need to have a resume that will qualify, such as Administrative duties in your club, Science background, or Model Aviation industry background. So in reality you need to take the time to make yourself an asset to our hobby. Not sit around and pound on a keyboard and criticize at any possible moment.

MajorTomski

Here is a link for you

http://www.modelaircraft.org/MembersOnly/pdf/520-B.pdf
Old 06-17-2011, 08:18 PM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

ORIGINAL: TimJ

I see the anti establishment people are back at it again.

Being a leader member does not make you part of some Exclusive AMA underground Fraternity. It just means you have taken the time to be more involved with the hobby and AMA.
Seriously Tim, Larry was not the least bit involved, was never a club officer, never volunteered in a club, never was a CD or ever did anything else for the AMA or any club he ever belonged to. He told me flat out that he was qualified to be a LM because he was an aeronautical engineer (Visalia 2010). Which I told him was BS, which is why you are now the AVP in Orange County and I got fired. Jim Giffin approved his LM application because Jim was trying to be a nice guy.


Not anyone can qualify to be a Leader Member.
History would serve to prove this wrong.


But you have to meet criteria that awards you the privilege to be an AMA leader member.
Not so. Again, the one and only thing our current District VP had was a degree in aeronautical engineering. By his standard every aeronautical engineer in the US is qualified to be a LM.[/quote]

The current District X VP has none of that, and yet not only is he a LM, but also a District VP.

BTW, anybody heard anything about the District X Flying Site?
Old 06-17-2011, 08:52 PM
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WOW!!! I did not know that! And I had to work my ass off to get my LM, both industry and Admin. I would think an aeronautical engineer would qualify, but only if it was somehow applied within our hobby / industry such as design or club activities. WOW! What a trip.

Let it be known, that I did not pursue your spot. I was asked by Larry after he queried members in the clubs I have associated with.

Okay, so if you are not connected, then you have to work your ass of like I did to become a leader member. Which is the way it should be in my opinion.

DX flying site......I have not.
Old 06-17-2011, 09:05 PM
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ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
Which I told him was BS, which is why you are now the AVP in Orange County and I got fired. Jim Giffin approved his LM application because Jim was trying to be a nice guy.


Hmmm...After reading numerous posts, by you, on the net about you getting the short end of the stick, as an AVP after Lou was elected, I am appalled that could actually happen to anyone... especially someone that is so "loyal to the core" as you are... thankfully, you are the only one to ever get the short (or whatever) end of the stick within the AMA.

Thank goodness the buddy system isn't standard fare...or is it??? Hmmm...kind of confusing.

Oh well, I guess it just depends on the reality of one's subjectivity... Hmmm...there was once a fellow on the forums that had something to that effect as a signature line...just can't remember who...oh well...
Old 06-17-2011, 10:11 PM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

No ill will towards you Tim. Truly. I will help you in any way I can. As Horrace has so rightly observed, I am a true AMA fanboy. There are certainly things I do not like, but at the end of the day I think they do more good than bad. And as far as the detractors, well I respect the opinions of those that have done something like Horrace (who I do not always agree with) and I could care less about those that have done nothing except find fault for the sport of continuing an Internet argument.
Old 06-18-2011, 01:29 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

Tim
Okay, so if you are not connected, then you have to work your ass of like I did to become a leader member.
Which is the way it should be in my opinion.
and in MY opinion,
having a system of different rules and waivers for folks that are 'connected'
that skip the hard work history and requirements that the position demands,
is NOT a good thing.

Shouldnt LM be about what you've done rather than who you know.
Shouldnt our policies in print reflect that.




It just means you have taken the time to be more involved with the hobby and AMA.
Time?
You mean like having that 3Year requirement,
or like putting in a system that drops that 3Years down to being in the AMA an hour or less even
if you are 'connected' as you say.

Do you think everyone should have to put in their 3 years,
or or should we not require the 3Years from anyone?
Or are you in favor of some kind of 'connected' good ole boy system
so district buddys can get in while failing to meet the 3year everyone else has to have
Old 06-18-2011, 06:35 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

Lets just say that Arizona has no known AVP's now under Larry. If Larry isn't there, nothing gets reported or covered in MA.

Retired AVP, Dist 10
Old 06-18-2011, 03:56 PM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

Well...I'll chime in here. I was proud to be honored with LM status. I also enjoyed my short 3 years as AVP before LT told me he no longer needed my service as AVP or district webmaster. My service was no longer needed, but there is still an open position in NorCal...h-m-m-m curious.

However, I still have my material and knowledge to assist in an unofficial capacity. The clubs I belong to and frequent for meetings and events still solicit and welcome my input because they know I'm there as a modeler/AMA guy. That cannot be taken away or lessened by the loss of an AVP position.

Jon
Former D-X AVP
Leader Member - Admin
NorCal
Old 06-19-2011, 05:14 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

Hmmmm, my experience is considerably different than several here. I was asked by an ex-AMA President to submit my LM application, which he said he would sign. Even after 10 years of close association, and even though he was intimately familiar with my qualifications, he made me explain my qualifications and desires before he would sign my application.
I've been closely associated with lots of AMA LM's during my time as a Dist X AVP and on my Committee work for AMA, I've found very few LM's who did not deserve to be LM's or who did not take the added responsibility seriously. Some of the above posts make it sound like bad, or GOB appointed, LM's are hiding behind every rock, I guess I must run in the wrong circles!
Old 06-19-2011, 05:58 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

And as far as the detractors...
Just wondering, is the group of detractors you refer based on those that have different views than you of what AMA is or should be? If not, what is the criteria that such a label is allowed/given???...Just asking as I am not sure how you degrade certain responders in this forum...
Old 06-19-2011, 07:16 AM
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Default RE: AMA Leader Members or

One of the indicators of a successful person is the ability to make friends be knowledgeable in what you do and to contribute your time to pass on the knowledge.

The requirement to be able to find 3 Leader Members to sign your application or to find 3 open members and a DVP/VP to sign your application does not seem to be much of a hurdle to clear.

Unless that is you have a lack of friends knowledge or contribution to the hobby.


Brad
Old 06-19-2011, 07:54 AM
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ORIGINAL: s3nfo

Even after 10 years of close association, and even though he was intimately familiar with my qualifications, he made me explain my qualifications and desires before he would sign my application.
Obviously he was just making sure you and he were in good alignment. That is very important in the maintenance of the status quo.
Old 06-19-2011, 08:04 AM
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ORIGINAL: s3nfo

Hmmmm, my experience is considerably different than several here. I was asked by an ex-AMA President to submit my LM application, which he said he would sign. Even after 10 years of close association, and even though he was intimately familiar with my qualifications, he made me explain my qualifications and desires before he would sign my application.
I've been closely associated with lots of AMA LM's during my time as a Dist X AVP and on my Committee work for AMA, I've found very few LM's who did not deserve to be LM's or who did not take the added responsibility seriously. Some of the above posts make it sound like bad, or GOB appointed, LM's are hiding behind every rock, I guess I must run in the wrong circles!

Good observation Jerry. But you do have to admit, that while not a widespread issue, there are glaring examples of times when someone has been appointed to LM status that really should not have, for whatever reason.
Old 06-19-2011, 08:06 AM
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ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Just asking as I am not sure how you degrade certain responders in this forum...
Not degrading anyone. Just making an observation. There are those who consistently, endlessly and predictably find fault with nearly everything the AMA does. Simply an observation.
Old 06-19-2011, 09:27 AM
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ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R



Not degrading anyone. Just making an observation. There are those who consistently, endlessly and predictably find fault with nearly everything the AMA does. Simply an observation.

I strongly disagree.

Simply by virtue of you declaring the term "detractors" is pure evidence of your intent to malign people and put them in a group. The reality is that some us, as individuals, do have particular, distinct and separable, issues with AMA or AMA's procedures or other responder's interpretation of AMA's true purpose...whether you can see it or not!


When people, such as yourself, degrade and stereotype others as you have, it has the effect of minimizing an otherwise valid perspective. And that is the real cause of much trouble we have here...and that is just one of the real reasons (maybe the biggest reason) I post here...

Your admission of the reality would be a basis for a foundation to go forward... your choice though...




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