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Contest Director and problem flyer

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Contest Director and problem flyer

Old 12-23-2013, 09:36 AM
  #26  
TexasAirBoss
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It helps a great deal if the CD, (or ED), is a well known and respected pilot and not some Barney Fife oval flyer. That may not be the politically correct thing to say, but heck, its the truth. Respect is the name of the game. Treat the pilots with respect. Take them over to the side and explain the situation to them. They will understand if you have a valid point. Otherwise, you aren't doing anyone any favors by botching the job.
Old 12-23-2013, 10:25 AM
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crash99
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Why do we have a CD?, it's for the one thing that most of us join the AMA for. Insurance, yes that's it. Do you really need a CD at your event? I don't know but we don't really need one at ours. I am the CD and I can not remember when I have ever had to get onto a pilot except to help a guy understand where the pattern is. ( flyers that don't normally fly at a club site)

I perform the paper work and a pilot meeting to welcome guest and give a quick instruction. Then I can spend my time making sure the food is ready on time. We mainly smoke the main course like chicken, pork loin ect. So we don't have to spend time cooking. And of course the raffle when it's raffle time.

I do try to get several flights in before 5. After the raffle it seems like the circle type flyer crowd thins out but the the core of us keep flying until we wear out. Before 11 normally unless it's a ProBro event. Then we fly into the morning hours.

Crash99
Old 12-23-2013, 10:55 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
One of the things that I have always pondered is why every club hosted event seems to feel a need to have a Contest Director...especially events that aren't even contests. We, our club, have had many events with someone simply named ED (event director)...FWIW we haven't had many actual "contest" type events but the few we have still didn't have an official AMA CD presiding over it, as they weren't AMA rulebook events... I know, I know...there will be those that just love the sound of "our event is sanctioned" but for many just for "fun events" the event coordination(area protection) that a sanction is normally used for is not necessary.
LCS, you always have an opinion and some -well every so often - are good. There are many reasons to obtain an AMA Sanction for any event that a club or group is hosting.

1. The event gets more attention to area groups, clubs, individuals, etc. Sponsors are far more likely to provide some "goodies" for entrants to take home if the event is AMA Sanctioned, be it a Fly-In, Fun-Fly, Competition, Rule-Book Event, or non RB. IMO, out-of-area entrants make for a much better time than just the local area folks themselves. While most folks that attend area events are all well known, it is most always a very fine get-together and it seems to me that the "Talking a good flight" definitely makes for a great time.

2. Having a Contest Director (Event Director with AMA CD ) is the individual that is going to get all the paraphernalia ready, assure that all equipment and site conditions are all ready for flying, usually assuring the coffee and doughnuts are on site along with a good crew to assure that lunch will be on time.

3. If a contest there will always (in my life) be a question or more about rules. There will be those saying "At the last contest -blah blah etc....." which the CD has the authority to make final.

4. Clubs have officers to bare the differences and to keep things running well. Events need an experienced individual, with some sign of authority for whatever situation may happen. I cannot think of a better way to do it than an AMA Contest Director there to keep things as safe and as well moving as is needed for all to have a good time.
There will always be those that, in a competition, that will have a new-old way, method of doing some event. It's the CD that makes any decision for change which by AMA rules takes 100% vote to change a published competition rule.

5. I became a Contest Director in March of 1963. The event was a number of events with Free-Flight and Control-Line. While I had done some FF for a short time, and Control-Line competition for some years, I was ever so thankful for a group of entrants that assisted me in that contest. Even today I listen to the guys in the briefings, and ask for a vote if there are any different opinions. Once we start, then we are on the prescribed GO! BTW it was my grab-the-wheel that saved the 1972 NATs at Glenview NAS, and I was Man Power Director there, then Man Power Director and Assistant CL Director at the '73 Oshkosh Nats. For years I was the CD for the Skylarks RC Club in IL, along with other duties.

For the past 17 years, I have been CD for one event: Jetero RC's annual "Frozen Fickle Finger of Fate Competition Fun Fly". I always ask Jetero if they wish to stop it and so far it is again on the Sanctioned List for February 22, 2014. (I turn 78 on the 19th so I will be older and more experienced. ) There are 4 rounds. Each Round has 2 tasks. Winners in each round receive a plaque. In the overall 4 rounds, each contestant receives 1 point for each person he bests in that round. There are 4 rounds. Top 4 in total points receive a plaque and cash awards. Winners get a percentage of the total intake in entry fees. Total of 70-80% of intake goes to 4 top winners.

When I was a DVP in Dist VI back in the 1980 period I had a State and District Fun Fly Contest where clubs sent teams to a state event. Then the State teams met in a District event. It was much fun and getting to meet others was also very nice. It withered a couple years after I left the AMA EC.

So, to all of you young folks, the Club is a good thing. Club Events can be good, and IMO it always takes a dedicated modeler to take the reins and keep things going.
There is more to model aviation than simply boring holes in the sky. DO IT!
Old 12-23-2013, 12:30 PM
  #29  
Tampaflyer
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as a CD you are an AMA representative. if you ask some one to stop flying in a way you feel is unsafe for that event , you can tell them that and that is now the rule for that event.

Club rules or not, you can make the rules for the event. Some thing goes wrong.. the first person they will come after is YOU. you were in charge. you assigned the people to do jobs and if you didn't trust them.. your call.

why do you think you have to fill out the sanction and the report ?

as for breaking club rules.. he can fly that during non events. During an event (especially one with spectators(public)) you don't need any negative action against THE CLUB, AMA, Or you.. and those that allow BS at an event.. flyers remember that and may not return.

AND YES, SUSTAINED FLIGHT toward the pits/spectators is unsafe. things go wrong and where is the plane going to go? ask those full scale pilots that have witnessed full scale flight INTO the crowd.

Ask Your self this, If that plane came into the crowd and hit a person, or a child, or a toddler, a baby in a carriage? could you live with the fact you said nothing , or let him continue flying after you said something at an event you were in charge of ?
Old 12-23-2013, 01:09 PM
  #30  
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The problem now a days is the equipment has gotten almost too good. Anymore you very seldom see a crash that really was a radio or equipment failure. As a result pilots are taking bigger chances feeling nothing will happen. Unfortunately when something does happen it's too late and if someone gets hurt it's a really bad deal. I was at 2 events where things happen. One was bad and one could of really been bad.

I was at the Sussex airport years ago on the Thursday before the show. They were allowing the modelers to fly as a preshow. A fairly novice pilot that should not have been allowed to fly under the conditions we were in took off and got disoriented. Before his buddy could get the transmitter from him the airplane got behind the flight line and went through the back of a tent hitting another flyer in the leg. The hit pilot was cut up pretty badly and I know there was a lawsuit over it because I was contacted by one of the lawyers for a statement.

The 2nd incident happened at a primer electric meet. My wife and I were sitting in the pit area with the wife of another flyer and their 6 month old son. Just as the wife picked up her son to give him a bottle an airplane crashed into the stroller where the baby had been sitting. Luckily the baby wasn't in the stroller. The pilot of the plane said he didn't know what happen the plane just turned right in a large wingover and went into the crowd. An examination showed that an servo had failed and pinned the aerolon to the right.

As CD you did the right thing. If the pilot involved can't understand that you were looking out for the safety of not only the spectators but the club than he's a fool. The club should back you 100%.
Old 12-23-2013, 01:19 PM
  #31  
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PF you did the right thing.Being a CD can kill the sport for you,so good luck to you.
Tom
Old 12-23-2013, 02:07 PM
  #32  
crash99
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Wow, if you are flying in a pattern, at one place in the pattern your airplane is pointed towards the crowd. So the CD should state no circle flying. That just sound silly right? Would it been easy to just calmly, walk up to the pilot and ask him to please don't try to shoot anymore crowd footage with a airplane. This is better done using a heli or multi rotor aircraft.

was his actions unsafe? No one can say without seeing his video the aircraft shoot. I will say there are good ways of being a CD and poor ways. In Missouri there use to be an event that 140+ pilots attended. This was an event my whole family loved except for the guy running it for years had to quit.

the new CD was ruff and was grouchy. This event could have been where the term fun police came from. The following year, I did not attend due to the CD took the enjoyment away from flying. I was not alone. They went from 140+ to under 80. Today, that even is no longer a event. It's so said due to that was a fun event the whole famille enjoyed.

I know now I am young after the post above. I was born in 1963. A CD should not be some control freak but a guy that works with the guys in the club to make sure the field is ready. Ensure your guest are having a great time. They all have plenty to eat and drink.

We must be doing something right, we keep running out of room to that point we double up our tent area. We hear nothing but I had a very good time, see you at the next event. We are a country club without all those city attitudes in out club membership that shows up. We hear comments like I wish my club had what you have.

Crash99
Old 12-23-2013, 02:30 PM
  #33  
Thomas B
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When you are flying a basic pattern, the aircraft are only pointed at the crowd for one brief moment during one turn. If the pilot is flying directly at the crowd, the aircraft is vectored towards the crowd for much longer than one brief moment. I agree that flyers should not fly extended headings towards the crowd. Note that the FAA runs their full scale airshows the same way.

I consider the term contest director to be a little out of date, as there are far more non competitive events than contest type events. However, we all know that a CD is often simply an event director. The term CD has simply carried over as things have evolved.

I always try to keep my fly in event events set up for maximum fun and flying and mimimal BS. Reasonable safety rules. I run two-three events per year and have gotten nothing but feedback about how much fun they are.

I will agree that overbearing event management has ruined a lot of events and I have not returned to a couple of different events due to unreasonable CDs.

Last edited by Thomas B; 12-23-2013 at 02:33 PM.
Old 12-23-2013, 02:56 PM
  #34  
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thanks, I knew someone would take it literally. they always do.
like a safety officer would be upset if a UMX was fighting the wind trying to make it back to the runway as compared to a 30lb warbird or jet..

common sense is no longer common


I also run very FUN type events. but not afraid of letting someone know they might be pushing the safety envelope.. Most people are actually usually decent about it.
Old 12-23-2013, 03:01 PM
  #35  
tejician1
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Thumbs up You Did The Right Thing

Pfalz.....You performed the correct response to an unsafe flying act. No matter how good/experienced or mature the flyer is...he should have known not to have pulled such a fool hardy stunt ( flying toward or over the pits, crowd, flight line, etc ) The AMA flight safety rules plainly state the distance spectators should be from the active flight line. If I were the Event Director at the Fun Fly I would have stated at the pilot's meeting before the event had begun about the sort of flying that would not to be tolerated, ie: Flying towards or behind the flight line or crowd, Flying over the pits, Each pilot must have a 'caller' or spotter and remain in their designated flight station(s). Flyers also should be told they risk immediate disqualification if any of the rules were bent or broken. Ya did the right & most correct thing !!! FYI....I am a national AMA officer & Event Director for AMA District VIII and would have done exactly as you... One last word--- Don't quit volunteering to be an Event Director for other model meets, experienced event director's are difficult to find or come by. Just keep wearing your iron-lined pants and you will do OK.
Old 12-23-2013, 03:32 PM
  #36  
804
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
Aparently? You were there?

What some fail to acept is that under AMA rules the CD is GOD. If in his opinion, and only his opinion, the flying was careless or reckless then that is all it takes to ground a pilot. Like some calls in football the penality is not reviewable no matter what the instant replay says.

So what is the recourse? Other than *****ing online?.................... use a different CD at your next club event, good luck at finding one though. The guys that become CD's are almost always of the personality type that "the rules are the rules" AND THAT IS GOOD.
Well, Brad, in the OP's first post, he already stated that he knew he could take the action he did.
I didn't feel the need, as you and others here did, to insult his intelligence and remind him of what he already knew.
I didn't and still don't think that is the question he was asking.

Please show us where he stated or even inferred, that any rules, club or AMA, were broken.
The OP left out a lot of, IMO, important information.

That you and many others here, including a "national AMA official" or whatever, have the same
authoritarian knee-jerk response to a situation that you and they didn't see says a lot.
So sad.
Old 12-23-2013, 04:03 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by 804 View Post
From what little info you give, I would have a hard time making a call.

More info please.
I don't care when it is even if U are there by your self U NEVER, NEVER I REPEATE U NEVER FLY AT (TOWARD) the flight for any reason There is never any reason to fly at the Flight line. PERIOD.

We were told by the AMA safety Officer in munch at the time if Officers continue to allow obvious Rules Violation of their members they can and have been sewed by others for Neglect. And any actions taken should (MUST) be documented even if repremand was verbal. That's IS/WAS the what we were told by the AMA.

Last edited by HoundDog; 12-23-2013 at 04:09 PM.
Old 12-23-2013, 04:26 PM
  #38  
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There is no place in this hobby for recless flying. I saw a member of my club get hit by a plane and it almost killed him. Over one year to recover and the doctors said it was a miracle. The plane was an Ultra Stick 60. How about ten broken vertabrae in his neck!
Old 12-23-2013, 06:29 PM
  #39  
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I tell everyone I have trained to treat the flying aircraft as you would a firearm. Do not point it at anything that you would not mind it shooting/hitting..

Rick
Old 12-23-2013, 06:51 PM
  #40  
littlecrankshaf
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Thumbs up! That's one of the biggest things that we have to educate each other on in regards to safety. Pretty simple when looked at as you stated.
Old 12-23-2013, 07:07 PM
  #41  
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What would Paulie Walnuts have done?
Old 12-23-2013, 08:01 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by TheRickster View Post
I tell everyone I have trained to treat the flying aircraft as you would a firearm. Do not point it at anything that you would not mind it shooting/hitting..

Rick
A fire arm is a good analogy as is a Treat it as if it running Buzz saw ... We had one of our flyers cut his right index finger off with an electric plane.
Old 12-23-2013, 08:35 PM
  #43  
p39
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Did you have a pilots meeting before the event spelling out the rules... both club rules and for the event? If you did and he violated those rules, you have every right to ground him and most likely with the support of the other participants. Most every event I attend has a pilots meeitng run by the cd... spelling out what's expected of the participants.
Old 12-23-2013, 09:13 PM
  #44  
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Now THIS is the guy I want at my fly-ins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ6g11uZoWk
Old 12-23-2013, 09:20 PM
  #45  
littlecrankshaf
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No doubt going over the basic rules before hand helps but the day is not long enough to go over every conceivable point of potential safety concern...that's why there are Event Directors of some sort...some call them Air Bosses.
Old 12-23-2013, 09:33 PM
  #46  
blhollo2
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Originally Posted by kochj View Post
Now THIS is the guy I want at my fly-ins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ6g11uZoWk


I love the dance he does!!! there aint no safety officer bs in mexico lol!
Old 12-23-2013, 09:34 PM
  #47  
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might I add, your the CO make your own decision and carry on. Stop asking us after the fact, stick to your guns
Old 12-23-2013, 10:13 PM
  #48  
Chris P. Bacon
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Originally Posted by crash99 View Post
A CD should not be some control freak but a guy that works with the guys in the club to make sure the field is ready. Ensure your guest are having a great time. They all have plenty to eat and drink.

Crash99
That's not the role of the CD.
Old 12-23-2013, 11:06 PM
  #49  
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I am no angel for sure and have made many testosterone driven mistakes in my life. Started with RC (wanted to since age six and I am now 57) and now have five years’ experience. I have been active in aviation as a GA full scale pilot since 1993 and have a BFI instructors rating for ultralight aircraft. In 1983 I was one of the first five hundred or so pilots who constantly fought local law enforcement and the feds to create new rules for us. It all culminated in FAR 103 in 1986. Over the next twenty years I was a chief instructor at The Ultralight Flight Farm in NY and the Plum Island Ultralight Aircraft Company in MA. The hobby-sport has been very rewarding; unfortunately my diabetes caught up with me and I grounded myself although I am still legal under the Sport Pilot flight rules.
All of that said: I have buried nine friends who tragically lost their lives flying GA and Ultra-LIght and Experimental Aircraft. My picture for this forum is me flying in my Rans S-9 Chaos in 1999. We had many fly-in projects with the local RC clubs and my plane was used for the ACRO demo since I built it with inverted fuel system and pumper carb. When I reflect on my behavior I can remember being disinvited from a well-known National Fly-in due to unsafe practices. To me...I was safe and had executed a roll at 500 feet over the runway centerline. I had waivers to do this stuff during the airshows but this maneuver was simply a show-off maneuver for my girl-friend...now wife :-).
The humiliation of having my registration pulled and being asked to leave (especially when I was on the show agenda) was quite sobering. The fact is, the field was not cleared of other traffic and even the Great I AM could have created a mid-air collision. So I left. The following year I wrote an apology to the club for my child-like disrespect for safe practices.
My other friends at the time all said: Jeff you are a skilled pilot but an unsafe pilot. Time to grow up.
I did, I returned and they are all still my friends. Those of us that learned that there are old pilots but not old-bold pilots miss our friends who exceeded VNE, hit power lines, flew in IFR conditions without IFR ratings and at times simply became complacent.

In 2004 I started with small electric RC'S and spent $1000 or so before I followed the advice to purchase a simulator. Today, I have 1/4 scale gas planes and wicked fast electric pylon racers. I respect these planes as much as the full size machines if not more. Here is why: They are capable of subjecting a living or inanimate object to a fatal or state of destruction total impulse. Assume a 12 lb. aircraft flying at 70 mph sheds a small piece of monocote on the elevator. The resulting flutter causes the horizontal stab to separate. With no control the pilot observes his aircraft dive across the field into the parking area and strike a seven year old child in the head. You can project the outcome I hope.
These aircraft do not have ballistic parachutes as we did. They do not have a human being onboard with the capacity to overcome in-flight structural problems (experienced by me twice without severe consequence). All we have is a transceiver connected to a human with huge variation in talent. The plane...well the pilot should really consider themselves a passenger to the RC technology.
Lately I have been watching people with little experience in aviation but much experience with stick time in RC. They come out to our Park in Raleigh NC and fly hot liners or quad drones to altitudes of several thousand feet. Telemetry equipment on board they brag of their altitude and airspeed recordings and pictures taken at GPS coordinates outside of the fields visual range.
A few weeks ago I watched a very talented stick and rudder RC pilot fly his 40 size Corsair straight at us on the flight line. The plane came within twenty feet of our faces when he executed an immelman to break away. All I could think of was his wing structure, wondering about beefed up spars and anti-drag struts in the construction. He had neither.
On this day I left the field and made two comments:
1) we are flying under the RDU Class C airspace with a 2000 ft. MSL floor as big planes line up on the victor airways on final approach into Raleigh Durham International.
2) Force = Mass X Acceleration Squared. Calculate the force when a 12 lb. Corsair stops flying when it hits an object while traveling at 100KM per hour. Now see how well that lady's Golden Retriever holds up against the Corsair.

I am not a big time SAFETY GUY nor do I have any need to be recognized. I do however have a responsibility to discuss unsafe situations that can be avoided when on thinks before committing aviation.

Aviation...Unforgiving of incapacity or neglect.
I thank you for standing up for the innocent at your fly-in; regardless of a pilots experience or temperament. I also suggest you consider aerobatic maneuver rules in the airspace you occupy.

Good work my friend.
Jeffrey Harris
Raleigh NC

Last edited by jeffharris75; 12-23-2013 at 11:14 PM.
Old 12-24-2013, 05:21 AM
  #50  
impulse09
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I'm slightly amazed that you have to explain to someone why it's bad to fly directly at spectators and or the pits. Slightly.

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