FAA fine against drone photographer dismissed.
#251
Do you have what it takes to continue the argument about the FAA, or are you going to remain the troll?
Why don't you explain why you believe the government should NOT have the authority to insure that commercial entities do not harm the public.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
Last edited by Sport_Pilot; 03-20-2014 at 07:52 AM.
#252
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jackson, MI
Posts: 2,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an r/c modeler, we are good to 400ft. Above that belongs to the National Airspace System governed by the FAA.
A smart man might consider finding out what the exact definition of NAS is. It USED to be 401+ feet AGL, but now is from ground up. I don't know everything like you do, but it seems to me that "from the ground up" means all the airspace.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf
For those who care to read it, CFR 71 spells out what airspace the FAA is 'controls':
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieve...r=PART&ty=HTML
There is uncontrolled airspace ! (which any newly-minted Private Pilot can explain ), that is generally below 1,500' above ground level (AGL). The airspace is explained and illustrated on any aviation Sectional map. For those who care to look...
So IMO as RC'ers, we're good from the ground to 1,500', and further we shouldn't fly within 3 miles of an airport above 400' without first advising the airport operator. Which means we're still OK above 400' within 3 miles of an airport. Just advise the operator.
It just depends if it's JFK or Podunk City. This is where the common sense comes in.
#253
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A couple of things:
A R/C model aircraft is not a "drone" in the usually accepted sense, especially if a FPV system isn't being used.
The issue of "compensation" hangs on the intended purpose of the flight. If you fly a model for the purpose of taking photo's for your own interest, then that's not a commercial activity. If someone then says, "Hey, I like your photo's, I'll buy them", this doesn't then cause the flight to have been for gain or reward ie the purpose of a flight can only be determined a priori.
A R/C model aircraft is not a "drone" in the usually accepted sense, especially if a FPV system isn't being used.
The issue of "compensation" hangs on the intended purpose of the flight. If you fly a model for the purpose of taking photo's for your own interest, then that's not a commercial activity. If someone then says, "Hey, I like your photo's, I'll buy them", this doesn't then cause the flight to have been for gain or reward ie the purpose of a flight can only be determined a priori.
Second, while commercial use is part of the definition, the real issue is safety of operation. We model aviators set ourselves aside by flying in away from populations or structures. Commercial operators are, in many cases doing the exact opposite.
#254
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#255
The FAA controls all navigable airspace, uncontrolled airspace is simply airspace where radio contact is not required. Navigable airspace is any airspace below 1000 feet over congested or populated areas, and 500 feet from all buildings and people in rural areas, and all airspace needed for an aircraft to land. There are more specific reauirements in the FAA regs for airports, but generally below 500 feet 3 miles from an airport is good.
#256
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry no troll. I apparently know this stuff better than most here.
Untited States Constitution Article 1 Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
Untited States Constitution Article 1 Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
Last edited by JohnShe; 03-20-2014 at 08:15 AM.
#257
No, the AMA is embracing FPV for recreational use They are working with the commercial drone community to prevent the cross over into recreational use..
#258
Wow! Do you have dyslexia? It's no shame, just an unfortunate disability. But that means you have to be careful when you read something so as not to misinterpret it. In this case, when the sates ratified the constitution, the gave the federal government the authority to regulate commerce. As such, the federal government does have the authority to insure that commercial entities do not harm the public
#259
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And, why do multiroter aircraft have to use airports, they can be launched from parking lots, vacant lots, streets or yards.
And, since the FAA has not published their rules, how do you know what they want anyway? Are you a mind reader now?
#260
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not the one of dyslexia. Do you know the definition of "among"? The constitution gave authority to commerce only between states not within a state. However there are exceptions if the product can easily be used for interstate commerce like a car or airplane. You cannot claim you are making a car or plane for only interstate commerce. However this is not the same with a small sUAV operated from a single transmitter and must return to that point.
#261
And, why do multiroter aircraft have to use airports, they can be launched from parking lots, vacant lots, streets or yards.
The larger fixed wing type use less energy and can stay aloft and fly further out than any copter type aircraft.
Last edited by Sport_Pilot; 03-20-2014 at 09:13 AM.
#262
Yes but only in navigable airspace and with people on board. The supreme court decided that many years ago that the navigable airspace was interstate airways and thus may be regulated by the federal governement. Now we are talking about using the non navigable airspace and not considered an interstate airway.
#263
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is a great article about the FAA and the drone issue.
[h=2]FAA Under The Gun To Issue sUAS Rule[/h]
By Graham Warwick
Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....p20-671583.xml
An interesting remark from the AMA seems to support LCS and SP on the desire to not see small drones regulated.
"“We believe community-based safety programming similar to what has already proved successful for model aviation can be equally effective for small UAS and can allow these platforms to operate safely and harmoniously in the national airspace system,” says the AMA"
I still think they need to be regulated in terms of reliable systems, trained pilots, sufficient insurance and overall ethical behavior. I simply don't see self regulation doing that.
[h=2]FAA Under The Gun To Issue sUAS Rule[/h]
By Graham Warwick
Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....p20-671583.xml
An interesting remark from the AMA seems to support LCS and SP on the desire to not see small drones regulated.
"“We believe community-based safety programming similar to what has already proved successful for model aviation can be equally effective for small UAS and can allow these platforms to operate safely and harmoniously in the national airspace system,” says the AMA"
I still think they need to be regulated in terms of reliable systems, trained pilots, sufficient insurance and overall ethical behavior. I simply don't see self regulation doing that.
#264
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes but only in navigable airspace and with people on board. The supreme court decided that many years ago that the navigable airspace was interstate airways and thus may be regulated by the federal governement. Now we are talking about using the non navigable airspace and not considered an interstate airway.
#265
My Feedback: (102)
The next phase will have to include the application for and purchase of a business license if you do indeed plan to charge for your services. Believe me, like I said it is all about the benjamins. Wanna get paid to play, you gonna have to pay. The government, whether it be local, community, state, or national is not going to let you earn a single penny from your endeavors unless you purchase one. Get caught operating without it, and I bet the fine will be more severe than any coming down from the FAA. I have friends who work in the tax / licenses office, and they are serious about these issues.
#266
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The next phase will have to include the application for and purchase of a business license if you do indeed plan to charge for your services. Believe me, like I said it is all about the benjamins. Wanna get paid to play, you gonna have to pay. The government, whether it be local, community, state, or national is not going to let you earn a single penny from your endeavors unless you purchase one. Get caught operating without it, and I bet the fine will be more severe than any coming down from the FAA. I have friends who work in the tax / licenses office, and they are serious about these issues.
#267
I still think they need to be regulated in terms of reliable systems, trained pilots, sufficient insurance and overall ethical behavior. I simply don't see self regulation doing that.
#268
Fine, where does it say anything about the FAA regulating anything that flies in non navigable airspace. The 1958 FAA act says they have the right in navigable airspace, the SCOTUS in the 20's said navigable airspace. I cannot find where this was reversed, though I suppose it is possible.
#270
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#271
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree, I just don't think the FAA or any other federal agency should do this. Also it does not need to be as extensive as the Feds would like to do this. It could be as simple as someone flying in front of an official of the state or county, similar to DMV driving test. I do expect that the manufactures and insurers could do a credable job of coming up with standards and certification of manufactured equipment. Similar to UL and FM for electical and fire protection equipment.
#272
Maybe so, but congress wrote the law and put the FAA in charge.
AIR TRAmC RULES
(c) The Administrator is further authorized and directed to prescribeair traffic rules and regulations governing the flight of aircraft,for the navigation, protection, and identification of aircraft, for theprotection of persons and property on the ground, and for the efficientutilization of the navigable airspace, including rules as to safe altitudesof flight and rules for the prevention of collision between aircraft,between aircraft and land or water vehicles, and between
aircraft and airborne objects.Looks to me like this says they are limited to control of navigable airspace. Now their are budget bills and I have looked at those and I have looked at the Reauthoization Act of 1994 and I see nothing that gave them control of non navigable airspace.
#273
Can you imagine ANY state official (I won't even begin to suggest smaller governmental entities) being conversant in the operation of any of the passenger aircraft you have ridden (try a Boeing 777 if you have never flown commercial aircraft)?
#274
Senior Member
Hey Guys;
I don't know if this is good or bad news, but, take a look at the link below!!
http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...unenforceable/
Sonny
aka
jet22b
I don't know if this is good or bad news, but, take a look at the link below!!
http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...unenforceable/
Sonny
aka
jet22b
#275
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Guys;
I don't know if this is good or bad news, but, take a look at the link below!!
http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...unenforceable/
Sonny
aka
jet22b
I don't know if this is good or bad news, but, take a look at the link below!!
http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...unenforceable/
Sonny
aka
jet22b