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FAA fine against drone photographer dismissed.

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FAA fine against drone photographer dismissed.

Old 05-12-2014, 10:43 AM
  #1201  
Sport_Pilot
 
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Why the reference to White Sands? That is nowhere near Tallahasse FL.
Old 05-12-2014, 01:38 PM
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Thomas B
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
Why the reference to White Sands? That is nowhere near Tallahasse FL.
Just pointing out that they are not flown over oceans only, in reference to your post mentioning oceans.

And they are not flown over Tallahassee either, in this incident, or there would be lots of reports of a big noisy F-4 shaking the town at 2300 feet and not just a near miss report from a CRJ-200 pilot.
Old 05-12-2014, 03:13 PM
  #1203  
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Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
And they are not flown over Tallahassee either, in this incident, or there would be lots of reports of a big noisy F-4 shaking the town at 2300 feet and not just a near miss report from a CRJ-200 pilot.
As the RJ was approaching to land at 5 miles out and 2300' an F-4 on a reciprocal heading at the same altitude would absolutely be an incident with the FAA approach control and the FAA Control Tower and not something only reported by the RJ pilot. Would a RC turbine jet be seen on the radar? The FAA either knows more then they are saying or the RJ pilot has a good imagination. Perhaps the foo fighters are back?
Old 05-12-2014, 03:36 PM
  #1204  
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So let me get this straight. UFO sightings are out and now it's drone sightings?

James
Old 05-12-2014, 03:38 PM
  #1205  
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No. Wait. It's # drone sighting.

James
Old 05-12-2014, 04:50 PM
  #1206  
Thomas B
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
As the RJ was approaching to land at 5 miles out and 2300' an F-4 on a reciprocal heading at the same altitude would absolutely be an incident with the FAA approach control and the FAA Control Tower and not something only reported by the RJ pilot. Would a RC turbine jet be seen on the radar? The FAA either knows more then they are saying or the RJ pilot has a good imagination. Perhaps the foo fighters are back?
All that makes the point I am going for. It was not a QF-4. It was not the Collins Foundation F-4. It was not a real aircraft. They would have radar evidence of it at that location on approach over Tallahassee.

Still not buying that someone was flying a turbine powered F-4 model near downtown Tallahassee at 2300 feet. That is about 7 miles from the nearest R/C field, which happens to be grass. Not to mention a fairly insane altitude for a turbine powered scale model.

Best guess is still a misidentified UAV, likely a hobbyist FPV model, at that altitude.

The google map link shows the local club field in relation to the airport, which is about 12 miles west as the crow flies.

https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=....1538888888889

Last edited by Thomas B; 05-12-2014 at 04:59 PM.
Old 05-12-2014, 06:45 PM
  #1207  
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i am beginning to think that this may have been a test of sorts.
to establish that :
1. you can get close enough to a FS airliner to do damage with a fpv controlled model type uav,
2. to establish just what the radar does and does not see when a model size uav is in frame.

just not exactly sure if it was the good guys testing, or the bad guys.
Old 05-12-2014, 07:09 PM
  #1208  
Thomas B
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Interesting stuff here at the link below. The writer does not know jack about RC, but he makes a good case for the FAA trying to scaremonger some basis for controlling all sUAS after they flunked with Mr. Pirker.

And, AA declined comment and mentioned they could find no evidence it actually happened.

http://www.nikropht.com/the-faas-dro...s-full-of-fud/

Last edited by Thomas B; 05-13-2014 at 05:54 AM.
Old 05-13-2014, 08:43 AM
  #1209  
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Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
Interesting stuff here at the link below. The writer does not know jack about RC, but he makes a good case for the FAA trying to scaremonger some basis for controlling all sUAS after they flunked with Mr. Pirker.

And, AA declined comment and mentioned they could find no evidence it actually happened.

http://www.nikropht.com/the-faas-dro...s-full-of-fud/
One of the follow-up articles did say that the airline pilot reported that the "drone?" was camouflage colored. A military drone is possible. maybe off course or something like that. As a general rule the military tries to avoid civilian fatalities in our own country, at least.

The author of the blog, that you cited, sounds like he isn't playing with a full deck, so I wouldn't take him seriously.
Old 05-14-2014, 05:23 AM
  #1210  
Thomas B
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Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
.......

The author of the blog, that you cited, sounds like he isn't playing with a full deck, so I wouldn't take him seriously.
I mentioned his lack of RC knowledge in my post and I agree his content to noise ratio is very low.

He did make one excellent point, though. It is very interesting that the FAA chose to have a press release about the incident when they did, almost two months after the incident took place and that the incident was never officially reported. The announcement was also made the weekend before the very large unmanned vehicle conference (AUVSI) being held in Orlando.
Old 05-14-2014, 06:06 AM
  #1211  
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Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
I mentioned his lack of RC knowledge in my post and I agree his content to noise ratio is very low.

He did make one excellent point, though. It is very interesting that the FAA chose to have a press release about the incident when they did, almost two months after the incident took place and that the incident was never officially reported. The announcement was also made the weekend before the very large unmanned vehicle conference (AUVSI) being held in Orlando.
And your point being?

It took the FAA two months to find out about an unreported incident? No surprises there. That they thought it significant to report? No surprises there either.
Old 05-14-2014, 06:16 AM
  #1212  
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Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
And your point being?

It took the FAA two months to find out about an unreported incident? No surprises there. That they thought it significant to report? No surprises there either.
So a full scale passenger plane can have a near miss on landing approach (5 miles, 2300') and the FAA Traffic Control and the FAA Control Tower see and report nothing? If it was a RC model turbine jet and did not appear on radar then the DoD has wasted billions on developing "stealth" technology when they could have just asked model airplane flyers.

More and more it looks like the "unreported incident" never happened.
Old 05-14-2014, 06:52 AM
  #1213  
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It took the FAA two months to find out about an unreported incident? No surprises there.
A near miss inside the control area of an airport and it goes unreported. That is a huge surprise. In fact I never heard of that happening! Well outside of an airport yes.
Old 05-14-2014, 07:49 AM
  #1214  
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
So a full scale passenger plane can have a near miss on landing approach (5 miles, 2300') and the FAA Traffic Control and the FAA Control Tower see and report nothing? If it was a RC model turbine jet and did not appear on radar then the DoD has wasted billions on developing "stealth" technology when they could have just asked model airplane flyers.

More and more it looks like the "unreported incident" never happened.
Stealth technology is about radar cross section. Model aircraft being much much smaller that regular aircraft are hard to see on radar. That is why the military is using drones as attack aircraft. No risk to pilots and very hard to detect.

TB said it went unreported. I am not sure that that is correct. As a general rule any close call requires a report.

I think that the FAA considered the AUVSI event a good time to mention it.
Old 05-14-2014, 08:27 AM
  #1215  
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I tried searching for an incident report on both the FAA and the NTSB websites and found nothing for the "supposed near miss"..................... Has anybody actually found a factual link/report on this, or is it all FAA fear mongering?
Old 05-14-2014, 10:03 AM
  #1216  
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I read this whole thread. Very interesting and partly humorous. It reminds me how lucky i am to live in the middle of nowhere. The club I belong to is small with a minimal set of club rulles over and above the AMA safety guidlines. We are still allowed to use common sense and personal accountability as opposed to over regulation. lol I am also very fortunate to have a very good friend with a lot of land at the second highest elevation in the County. Absolutely nothing around for miles. I really feel bad for all you guys and gals that live in populous areas trying to enjoy the hobby. I cant imagine going through what some of you have to just to join a club, let alone fly.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future regarding FPV and auto-pilot regulations, if any. I agree it is not going away. The technology is now insanely cheap and readily available to anyone. For under 1000.00 you can have an aircraft that can auto-pilot anywhere at any altitude you select using Google Earth to set Waypoints. The technology is exciting and incredible. I cannot even imagine what FPV and auto-pilot systems will be available in 5 years. Hopefully everything will fall into place and we can all live harmoniously together. Happy flying!!

Last edited by mike1974; 05-14-2014 at 10:06 AM.
Old 05-14-2014, 10:38 AM
  #1217  
Thomas B
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Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
And your point being?

It took the FAA two months to find out about an unreported incident? No surprises there. That they thought it significant to report? No surprises there either.
Never said it took two months for the FAA to find out. I said it took two months for them to get around to doing a press release and the timing of it is very interesting, after other recent incidents involving drones in NY and elsewhere, and just before a large convention of the industry organization that is all about sUAS and all UAVs in general.

The timing of the press release allows the FAA to piggyback their agenda on the uptick in current public and press buzz about "drones".
Old 05-14-2014, 10:41 AM
  #1218  
Thomas B
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Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
.....

TB said it went unreported. I am not sure that that is correct. As a general rule any close call requires a report.

I think that the FAA considered the AUVSI event a good time to mention it.
I am relaying what American Airlines appears to have stated in one of the reports that i linked above. There was no evidence of the encounters. Ergo, it went officially unreported.
Old 05-16-2014, 02:57 PM
  #1219  
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http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2...15/Drone-Beach
Old 05-16-2014, 04:32 PM
  #1220  
Jim Branaum
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
A near miss inside the control area of an airport and it goes unreported. That is a huge surprise. In fact I never heard of that happening! Well outside of an airport yes.
Another pilot friend and I were discussing your professional knowledge of everything aviation related just this afternoon so I am astounded that you never heard of near misses not being reported in the airport control area. There have been many and they continue to bug the feds as to how and why they happen when both aircraft are under 'control' of the ATC. Part of the problem with the lack of reporting seems to be based on the pilot of 1 seeing 2 but missing and figuring the paperwork involved in a report far exceeds the value of saying anything. It is kind of like the "benefit" of declaring an emergency. Don't do it unless you are ready to spend hours and hours filling out forms justifying your actions. Now if ATC decides your situation is an emergency, THEY get to justify the activity. But if you have never had the opportunity to experience those kinds of situations, it looks benign. So does a sleeping rattlesnake.

Now the real issue for the future will be how can we expect airliner folks to see and avoid your foam toys carrying potentially explosive batteries and hard camera parts given that they are making approaches at speeds well over 120 MPH and focused on flying their aircraft. Try putting your 1/4 scale bird on your driveway (they do have those in Georgia, don't they?) and walk 2 or three blocks away and then turn back and see what is visible. That is a reasonable simulation of what you already said they would not bother looking for. Try it and report here...
Old 05-16-2014, 04:32 PM
  #1221  
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She should have called the cops. Never confront a creep, especially in VA, where they carry guns.
Old 05-16-2014, 05:55 PM
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"Drone Used to Peep, Film Sunbathing Ladies"

Big hairy deal. Isn't that what they're for?
Old 05-22-2014, 05:11 AM
  #1223  
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Default We (RC modelers) are insignificant to the UAV industry

Just read the linked to daily reports from the AVUSI Conference and you can see where we do not fit into the grand plan.:

May 13 http://edition.pagesuite-professiona...f-38025f6afdce
May 14 http://edition.pagesuite-professiona...6-9686b984d44e
May 15 http://edition.pagesuite-professiona...d-834c9535e9c4
Old 05-22-2014, 11:15 AM
  #1224  
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IMO looks like we are part of the grand plan to me? Not sure where it says we do not fit in. Lots of model airplanes in those docs if you ask me.
Old 05-22-2014, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
IMO looks like we are part of the grand plan to me? Not sure where it says we do not fit in. Lots of model airplanes in those docs if you ask me.
So how much "Model Airplane" (sUAV) sales revenue will be made by all the companies that exhibited at the AMA Expo compared to "Model Airplane" (sUAV) companies at AVUSI?

Where the money goes, so goes the R&D dollars, the lobbyists and the legislators ......................... If "Model Airplanes" continue to generate negative "Drone" stories, deserved or not, who will get thrown under the bus? Recreational users or commercial users?

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