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AMA to spend $250,000 on FPV

Old 07-30-2014, 10:26 AM
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AlW
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Default AMA to spend $250,000 on FPV

http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutam...ecmotions.aspxAt the Exec Council meeting on July 19th AMA passed motion V to spend $250,000 - yes, that's a quarter of a million dollars to conduct some kind of training program for ''commercial'' drone pilots. (see above link). As I understand it this idea was discussed at the AMA convention in California last January so Muncie has been working on this idea for the last (6) months or so - so much for transpiracy! so here are a few questions-A) What exactly is the $250,000 for? I am told that AMA plans to hire more people. What are they going to be doing and what else is the money going to be used for?B) Who is going to do the training? Based on the FAA's Notice of Interpretation the instructor pilots will be ''commercial'' and therefore not covered by AMA insurance - is AMA planning to pay for this separate insurance? Part of the $250,000?C) Is AMA going to be paid for this service? We are a Non Profit Corporation so what are the lawyers saying?D) When motion V was voted on the vote was a (6) to (6) tie. Our President Bob Brown cast the deciding vote so I guess we know where he stands.E) This is seems like a ''major departure'' for AMA and as such the membership should have some input. If nothing else it would seem like the Leader Members should have been asked for input. We the membership need to demand that Bob Brown step up and explain just what is going on here and why this activity is good for AMA at this point in time.
Old 07-30-2014, 12:17 PM
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LOL! The AMA marketeers seem to have taken the storyline from the old flick "The Producers" as a planning exemplar. Difference is, the plot twist that made "Springtime For Hitler" a hit hasn't materialized for AMA escapades, e.g., PPP and the end-run-around FAA play.

cj
Old 08-05-2014, 06:08 PM
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Charley
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AIW,

Your link doesn't take me to any info; just to AMA today subscription page. Can you direct me to the pertinent info?

CR, AMA #6903
Old 08-05-2014, 07:13 PM
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AlW
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Charley, Sorry about that. Here isthe correct link.http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutam...ecmotions.aspxAl
Old 08-05-2014, 07:17 PM
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AlW
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Charley, Let me try again!http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutam...ecmotions.aspx
Old 08-05-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AlW View Post
The minutes of the meeting have not been posted yet. Here is a link to the motions. http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutam...ecmotions.aspx

You have to be amember and logged in atthe AMA site to read the posting.

All it says is: "MOTION V: Moved by A. Argenio (I) and seconded by E. Williams (II) that Headquarters continue with the small UAS program and allocate $250,000 over 18 months for implementation.
MOTION passed: 7-Y; 6-N (III, V, VII, VIII, X and XI)"

I have no idea what the program is. Is there a link to any AMA posting that describes this program?
Old 08-06-2014, 09:54 AM
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AlW
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The key words in the motion are ''Continue with the small UAS program and allocate $250.000'' As I said in my initial post this activity has been going on since earlier this year. BOB BROWN NEEDS TO HAVE THE BACKBONE TO STEP UP HERE AND TELL THE MEMBERSHIP HOW HE IS SPENDING OUR MONEY!
Old 08-06-2014, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AlW View Post
The key words in the motion are ''Continue with the small UAS program and allocate $250.000'' As I said in my initial post this activity has been going on since earlier this year. BOB BROWN NEEDS TO HAVE THE BACKBONE TO STEP UP HERE AND TELL THE MEMBERSHIP HOW HE IS SPENDING OUR MONEY!
Right, I think I may agree with you. But, what is the "small UAS program"?
Old 08-07-2014, 10:27 AM
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AlW
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A lot of people like real estate agents and farmers etc would like to use drones in their line of work. These would be ''Small Unmaned Aircraft Systems'' just like our FPV vehicles. How will these people learn to fly these machines? That's where AMA comes in and that's what the $250,000 is for! AMA is setting up a training program for these "commercial'' users with our money.
Old 08-07-2014, 01:04 PM
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I think the bigger concern is the AMA being involved with "drones" at all. Front page of MSN today had a story about a drone falling into old faithful at yosemite. Is this the type of stuff the AMA wants to be part of? Maybe they're looking at it as a business thing, THEN START A SEPARATE CORP and make sure we don't get lumped into the group of people who could care less about joining the AMA. Flying R/C planes line of sight and flying a quad copter three miles away entails dramatically different risk factors. I think FPV is super cool, but not cool enough to jeopardize losing the privilege of flying R/C.

AMA, what the hell are you doing? Do you think you're gonna get this new giant revenue stream? Is it worth having big brother kill our hobby? That blood will be on your hands. Shocking that the "Company" that provides insurance for modelers is naive enough to get in bed with this stuff. People who buy a quadcopter from the internet and fly it in down town Seattle are NOT going to join the AMA! But having you endorse them lumps all of us together when legislation is put in place to make it an illegal activity.
Old 08-07-2014, 01:20 PM
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Usually the guidelines in Canada and the USA are so very close at times they seem to mimic each other. It made me wonder why the US is having so much trouble with this whole UAS/UAV and FPV issue. I compared the two different approaches. In Canada MAAC wants nothing to do with any part of the commercial end of this new technology. Fly within the model associations (MAAC) guidelines and safety code and your considered a model and come under the organizations umbrella. If you fly otherwise or for any kind of commercial enterprise well it’s outside of MAAC’s sphere of influence and falls directly under the federal aviation jurisdiction. In other words if you fly it as a model/hobby under the guidelines set by MAAC you are of no concern to the aviation authorities as we have operated for many years.

The AMA for what ever reason made a choice to become involved in part to the small other than hobby UAS/UAV and FPV segment. They have less ability/authority to make rules involving the commercial aspects and have no power to enforce anything they come up with. On top of that the ones that fly outside the hobby organization certainly don’t want their involvement in making policy/rules or guidelines that would effect their operations. All the AMA has to do is withdraw from this nightmare and simply go back to being a hobby based organization. The past guidelines allowed freedom from FAA oversight. In fact it was agreeable enough that there was no need to make additional rules regarding the hobby flyer observing the AMA guidelines and safety code. Like has been said before you cannot stop someone who is intent on breaking the rules so let the rule makers deal with them. Let the FAA deal with all things outside the hobby sphere.

It’s working so far here in Canada MAAC and any legitimate hobby flyer in no way supports those who threaten the hobby by their actions. Maybe after a few find out there is no support from the hobby crowd and get dragged through the courts things may change. I don’t see things changing until it starts to hit them in their wallets. Its already obvious reasoning with them is not even an option.

What will happen will happen it’s in the hands of the Feds now and the few objections by so small a minority I doubt will have any effect on the outcome.
Old 08-07-2014, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Usedtobepropworn View Post
Usually the guidelines in Canada and the USA are so very close at times they seem to mimic each other. It made me wonder why the US is having so much trouble with this whole UAS/UAV and FPV issue. I compared the two different approaches. In Canada MAAC wants nothing to do with any part of the commercial end of this new technology. Fly within the model associations (MAAC) guidelines and safety code and your considered a model and come under the organizations umbrella. If you fly otherwise or for any kind of commercial enterprise well it’s outside of MAAC’s sphere of influence and falls directly under the federal aviation jurisdiction. In other words if you fly it as a model/hobby under the guidelines set by MAAC you are of no concern to the aviation authorities as we have operated for many years.

The AMA for what ever reason made a choice to become involved in part to the small other than hobby UAS/UAV and FPV segment. They have less ability/authority to make rules involving the commercial aspects and have no power to enforce anything they come up with. On top of that the ones that fly outside the hobby organization certainly don’t want their involvement in making policy/rules or guidelines that would effect their operations. All the AMA has to do is withdraw from this nightmare and simply go back to being a hobby based organization. The past guidelines allowed freedom from FAA oversight. In fact it was agreeable enough that there was no need to make additional rules regarding the hobby flyer observing the AMA guidelines and safety code. Like has been said before you cannot stop someone who is intent on breaking the rules so let the rule makers deal with them. Let the FAA deal with all things outside the hobby sphere.

It’s working so far here in Canada MAAC and any legitimate hobby flyer in no way supports those who threaten the hobby by their actions. Maybe after a few find out there is no support from the hobby crowd and get dragged through the courts things may change. I don’t see things changing until it starts to hit them in their wallets. Its already obvious reasoning with them is not even an option.

What will happen will happen it’s in the hands of the Feds now and the few objections by so small a minority I doubt will have any effect on the outcome.
Thats a great idea, but if someone who is not an AMA member knocks down a real airplane with his quadcopter, it is guilt by association. Both by the government and the media. "But he wasn't an AMA member" Is like saying, "but she looked 18." Nobody cares….
Old 08-07-2014, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AlW View Post
A lot of people like real estate agents and farmers etc would like to use drones in their line of work. These would be ''Small Unmaned Aircraft Systems'' just like our FPV vehicles. How will these people learn to fly these machines? That's where AMA comes in and that's what the $250,000 is for! AMA is setting up a training program for these "commercial'' users with our money.
Whoah! That ain't good. According to the FAA's interpretation of section 336 of the FAA modernization act, commercial users can and will be regulated by the FAA. If the AMA is throwing in with commercial users for any reason, they are painting us regular recreational hobbyists into a corner.

Do any of the AMA leaders have a clue?
Old 08-07-2014, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DrScoles View Post
Thats a great idea, but if someone who is not an AMA member knocks down a real airplane with his quadcopter, it is guilt by association. Both by the government and the media. "But he wasn't an AMA member" Is like saying, "but she looked 18." Nobody cares….
Well it hasn't happened in Canada in fact several times Transport Canada has taken our side and corrected the media in that MAAC members have been responsible flyers for years and has no association with those flying in such a careless manner. One such incident was videos posted showing the unit flying near an inbound flight path of a major airport. Someone noted there was a flying club in the vicinity. Those in the aviation industry commented the modelers had been there for years without incidence they doubted very much they were the cause of the present incident. If these yahoos have no intention of following any rules the AMA needs to distance themselves as far as possible. It works well in Canada our organization is only about 14,000 members yet we seem to have a much better rapport with our government officials. MAAC wants no part of anything but the hobby aspect.

Dennis
Old 08-07-2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DrScoles View Post
Thats a great idea, but if someone who is not an AMA member knocks down a real airplane with his quadcopter, it is guilt by association. Both by the government and the media. "But he wasn't an AMA member" Is like saying, "but she looked 18." Nobody cares….
Yes, the current state of the media is pathetic. But the FAA will only go after the individual who broke the rules. So we, as true recreation hobbyists who follow the rules, have very little to fear.
Old 08-08-2014, 11:23 AM
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My fear is the AMA will do what many colleges and universities do: use their knowledge, expertise and personnel to do research-and-development on projects, then spin them off to the corporate interests.

That's not what a hobby-based organization should do, and they need to explain what's going on. I'm contacting my District Rep, and I urge everyone else to do likewise!
Old 08-08-2014, 11:39 AM
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Charley
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I had to log in to the members only area to find the July 19th EC motions. Now I'm looking for the Small uas program. Anyone know where to find an explanation?

CR
Old 08-08-2014, 12:52 PM
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What is the annual budget of the AMA? That answer would give us the percentage this new program would cost.

This was in the April EC minutes:

eLearning Related to sUAS
Education is a major part of the AMA FAA initiative. AMA’s eLearning system was introduced to the membership at the Expo this year. E. Loy reported that since then, they have been creating a course called ‘Introduction to sUAS’. A version of the course will be made available to the entire public, but there will be a testing module that is for AMA members only. AMA members that go through the course and familiarize themselves with the content will have the opportunity to complete an assessment (quiz/test), which could allow them to have a sUAS Course notation on their membership card. This would identify that the individual is aware of basic safety concerns, ethics and is an informed pilot. Headquarters is hoping to have the course ready for testing by June 2014.

B Pritchett reported that the Education Department is in the process of putting together a University Model Aviation Student Club (UMASC). D. Mathewson stated Council can expect a conceptual outline (via email) within the next few weeks.
Old 08-08-2014, 01:01 PM
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It's interesting to see how people can twist a simple statement. The statement says
" that Headquarters continue with the small UAS program and allocate $250,000 over 18 months for implementation."

Somebody twisted it to say
AMA to spend $250,000 on FPV


I'm going to highlight something really important from the real quote:
" that Headquarters continue with the small UAS program and allocate $250,000 over 18 months for implementation."


If you had kept up with the actual AMA news, you would know what that means. Since you are here speculating, here is some help:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...0uas%20program

Rafael
Old 08-08-2014, 01:06 PM
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Rafael, what's the point of your link, which shows a google page to many AMA links?

Far better if you gave an actual link to a page that explains the 'small UAS program'.
Old 08-08-2014, 02:32 PM
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I am going to write to my ama district rep and let him know what I think. I think that's what we should all do. Let the ama know how we feel as well as venting in RC Universe.
Old 08-08-2014, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wnewbury View Post
I am going to write to my ama district rep and let him know what I think. I think that's what we should all do. Let the ama know how we feel as well as venting in RC Universe.
I'm going to Email my AMA Dist VIII VP & ASK him about the deal. He voted against the motion.

CR
Old 08-08-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by eddieC View Post
Rafael, what's the point of your link, which shows a google page to many AMA links?

Far better if you gave an actual link to a page that explains the 'small UAS program'.
Homework. Doubt you will find a single article that summarizes what you are looking for. In essence, it is the work the AMA is doing "against" the FAA moving into our hobby. Hence my highlighting the word "continue". Nothing to do with FPV, as suggested by the title of this thread.

Rafael
Old 08-08-2014, 03:43 PM
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Well, well, well. So, besides building elaborate offices and stocking them with expensive computer systems, and then throwing expensive parties, now they plan to spend $250,000 on "research"? Those crazy guys!

Last edited by Airplanes400; 08-08-2014 at 03:49 PM.
Old 08-08-2014, 04:46 PM
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RAFAEL,This has everything to do with FPV. FPV is a ''small UAS'' and this is all about the AMA setting up a program to teach the commercial users all about understanding these systems as well as teaching them how to operate same. If you think that this effort is ''work the AMA is doing against the FAA moving into our hobby'' as you put it you are dead wrong. Like some have said already get in contact with your District VP and have him explain this mess because you are not going to find it on the AMA website.

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