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Ama attempts to ''rig'' upcoming executive vice president election

Old 09-07-2014, 06:59 PM
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AlW
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Default Ama attempts to ''rig'' upcoming executive vice president election

Rusty Kennedy is the Chairman of the Leader Member Development Committee and on August 28th sent out an email message to AVPs and Leader Members. The bulk of the message talked about the tasks required of Leader Members but at the end of the email the following statement appeared and I quote ''Gary Fitch EVP is running for re-election and I will vote for him. Gary and I work well together and he has backed the LM program 100% and he and I are now working on Chartered Chapters. PLEASE SUPPORT GARY HE IS A FINE MAN AND A SOLID LEADER_ _ _ _ _ _''I objected to that last statement and sent several emails to both Rusty Kennedy and Bob Brown AMA President. I felt that Rusty should resign as Chairman of the committee but Bob Brown sees nothing wrong. The following are my reasons for asking for Rusty's resignation; 1)The email was written to hundreds of members and clearly ''rigs'' the election in favor of the incumbent EVP. Is this fair to the other person on the ballot- I think not!2)The email went to AVPs and Leader Members. You can get email addresses for all the AVPs from any copy of Model Aviation, however email addresses for Leader Members can only come from one place and that would be Muncie.3) AMA officers should not be using AMA member lists for political purposes - this is a blatent abuse of the power granted to Rusty Kennedy as chairman of an AMA committee.I reminded Bob Brown of the AMA Mission Statement ''AMA is a World Class Association- - - - - - - - '' World class can only be achieved if the people in responsible positions understands what that means. RIGGING ELECTIONS IS A LONG WAY FROM BEING WORLD CLASSBob Brown needs to take the following actions - remove Rusty Kennedy and figure out how best to get this election back on a ''fair'' footing.Al lWatson, Leader Member; AVP Dist xi
Old 09-08-2014, 07:38 AM
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porcia83
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Rigging elections?

Nothing in your comments, nor his e-mail even come close to supporting that baseless accusation. The same goes for trying to figure out how to get the election back on a "fair" footing.

Why didn't you include the sentence preceding, and following the comments about the election? As you talk about fairness, wouldn't that have been the "fair" thing to do?


Lastly, elections are coming up. The ballots start going out September 15, 2014. The ballot will be in the membership renewal. It is very easy to vote. Please encourage your members to vote.

Gary Fitch, EVP is running for re-election and I will vote for him. Gary and I work well together and he has backed the LM program 100% and he and I are now working on Chartered Chapters. Please support Gary he is a fine man and a solid leader.

This email went to AMA President, EVP, Dist VPs, AVPs and about 100 Leader Members

Your real concern seems to be the use of the e-mail list. You've sought clarification from the President, and he's indicated it's not an issue. Saying the election is unfair and rigged now because an e-mail went to about 105 members of AMA is borderline ludicrous. Did you discuss this issue with your VP before launching this? Seems like a personal issue you have with Rusty.

FWIW, I don't know Rusty other than what I read in his e-mails. I'm impressed so far with the content and enthusiasm contained in his communications.

You really should consider revising the title of your thread.
Old 09-08-2014, 09:16 AM
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The AMA can simply provide the same access to the email list for HC to use. Would Bob Brown authorize that? After all he saw nothing wrong .........................?????
Old 09-08-2014, 09:53 AM
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Porcia - NO, I will not consider changing the title of the thread. The title accurately states what is going on at Muncie. All emails that I sent on this topic went to Rusty, Bob Brown and my VP Chuck Bower. You mention ''Borderline Ludicrous'' - what is ludricrous is the fact that the President of a '' World Class Association '' would allow this kind of behavior to occur under his watch.
Old 09-08-2014, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
The AMA can simply provide the same access to the email list for HC to use. Would Bob Brown authorize that? After all he saw nothing wrong .........................?????
That seems worthwhile, if only to end the matter. Rusty K. seems a straight up guy to me, but he did slip up in this instance. Deserves a couple of lashes with wet spaghetti for that. It ain't a capital offense.
Old 09-08-2014, 10:20 AM
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porcia83
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AIW,
Your choice ultimately, I was just making a suggestion.

Are you next going to call for Brown to resign, after all he accepts this? If nothing comes of this will you still serve in your role as an AVP representing what you might feel is a less than "world class" organization given this "unfair rigged election" process?

Has the AMA really done what you accused them of, or do you really have an issue with Rusty. When did he get assigned to speak and act on the AMA's behalf?

I think the accusations are unfair, and your suggestion that he resign uncalled for, even if it was found he had done something wrong.
Old 09-09-2014, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
AIW,
XXXXXXX

Has the AMA really done what you accused them of, or do you really have an issue with Rusty. When did he get assigned to speak and act on the AMA's behalf?

I think the accusations are unfair, and your suggestion that he resign uncalled for, even if it was found he had done something wrong.
In your defense of an AMA member that is simply trying to make a possible item - in error to not just lie in error - be ridiculed by the "............ even if it was found he had done something wrong" to be a part of the WRONG!

When one does wrong, then it his problem to make things right by admitting or at least apologizing. I have had my times; #1 was when I had won a EVP vote by write-in and the AMA Executive Director hid those ballots. Fortunately the AMA President found them and demanded a recount. I was back in business.
Yet the EC did not demand that ED to be sent on his way for actually attempting on redirecting the election. IMO That ED made a direct criminal action, yet the EC did NOTHING but allow the ED to make another number of - IMO - criminal actions, as for the AMA itself.

One was when he tried to keep the 1972 NATs down, after I had got the NATs back again. #2 was that after the '73 NATS this ED was offered that the USAF would take over hosting the NATs. He kept that secret a long time, except for the fact that the USAF Colonel setting up for USAF doing the good-deed did let it out after some time. The COL. thought the EC had made that decision.

There are a lot of self-seeking individuals in this world. I have conversed with Rusty Kennedy a number of times. I found him to be very well briefed on AMA .
The bad situation as I see it is that Rusty could have done much better.

As a former USAF pilot, and a UAL Pilot, I am of the thoughts that when one screws the pooch, so to say, saying "I am very sorry, what was I thinking?"
That makes for a better relationship for all and does not so much divide the membership for additional problems.
Old 09-09-2014, 01:13 PM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
In your defense of an AMA member that is simply trying to make a possible item - in error to not just lie in error - be ridiculed by the "............ even if it was found he had done something wrong" to be a part of the WRONG!

When one does wrong, then it his problem to make things right by admitting or at least apologizing. I have had my times; #1 was when I had won a EVP vote by write-in and the AMA Executive Director hid those ballots. Fortunately the AMA President found them and demanded a recount. I was back in business.
Yet the EC did not demand that ED to be sent on his way for actually attempting on redirecting the election. IMO That ED made a direct criminal action, yet the EC did NOTHING but allow the ED to make another number of - IMO - criminal actions, as for the AMA itself.

One was when he tried to keep the 1972 NATs down, after I had got the NATs back again. #2 was that after the '73 NATS this ED was offered that the USAF would take over hosting the NATs. He kept that secret a long time, except for the fact that the USAF Colonel setting up for USAF doing the good-deed did let it out after some time. The COL. thought the EC had made that decision.

There are a lot of self-seeking individuals in this world. I have conversed with Rusty Kennedy a number of times. I found him to be very well briefed on AMA .
The bad situation as I see it is that Rusty could have done much better.

As a former USAF pilot, and a UAL Pilot, I am of the thoughts that when one screws the pooch, so to say, saying "I am very sorry, what was I thinking?"
That makes for a better relationship for all and does not so much divide the membership for additional problems.
Wait...hold on. Who ridiculed anyone?

Why is a question or differing opinion suddenly turned into ridicule. My comment was that even if Rusty has been shown to have done something wrong, demanding his removal from his position was uncalled for. But he did nothing wrong. And our President said so. So from that perspective, it's a done deal. Starting the thread, only adding part of the e-mail he sent, suggesting an unfair and possibly rigged election was underway, then again suggesting he get removed from his position after being told he did nothing wrong seemed unfair, and extreme.

I don't dispute that an apology can go a long way, even if you don't think you've done anything wrong. In fact, I've noted that in the thread about the irate neighbor and FAA. It hasn't been a concept warmly accepted. Being diplomatic can work wonders. If someone is hit between the eyes with that kind of e-mail, and then a public thread gets started about it (when it's clearly not going to make any change), I doubt the person being called into question is going to think, hey, I should apologize. But in this case, I doubt he feels he did anything wrong, and his actions have not been found to be inappropriate. Bringing the issue to everyone's attention after the fact is one thing, and one could argue it might shed light on someone if they were running for election. Demanding removal of the position seems punitive.

In this case, do you think the OP was looking for an apology? Would that have made any difference here? OP wants the guy gone, end of story. There doesn't appear to be any middle ground, or any requests for opinions, etc etc.

I don't see the thread title as accurate, the "AMA" doesn't appear to have tried to rig anything, hence the suggestion to change it.
Old 09-09-2014, 06:31 PM
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as a leader member, i found his electioneering in an official email to be quite wrong.
should have sent out a separate email for that, he he really felt the need to state it.
of, course, it is no more or less than i have come to expect from rusty, so far in his tenure.

and, yes, that first response email did read as ridicule, at least to this old TEXAN.
Old 09-10-2014, 03:09 AM
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"figure out how best to get this election back on a ''fair'' footing."

While "rigging" may not be the exactly correct term, the email, which was apart of some "official business", certainly has bias and that is wrong IMO. FWIW I basically agree with your points and truly appreciate your sense of fair play.
Old 09-10-2014, 03:35 AM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
as a leader member, i found his electioneering in an official email to be quite wrong.
should have sent out a separate email for that, he he really felt the need to state it.
of, course, it is no more or less than i have come to expect from rusty, so far in his tenure.

and, yes, that first response email did read as ridicule, at least to this old TEXAN.
Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
"figure out how best to get this election back on a ''fair'' footing."

While "rigging" may not be the exactly correct term, the email, which was apart of some "official business", certainly has bias and that is wrong IMO. FWIW I basically agree with your points and truly appreciate your sense of fair play.
Do you both concur that the AMA has attempted to rig this election and that Rusty should be removed from his position?
Old 09-10-2014, 07:05 AM
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If I understand this correctly, the only thing this guy did that was even arguably wrong was saying something to 100 people at the end of a message he sent by AMA email instead of saying if in an email message of his own. That doesn't strike me as a hanging offense, and calling it an attempt by the AMA to rig an election seems extreme.
Old 09-10-2014, 07:36 AM
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AMA Elections Rigged?

1. You must be qualified by at least being a "Leader Member" and depending on position other qualifications. (community organizer won't do)
2. The EC Nomination Committee selects who meets the "qualifications"
3. The EC votes to approves a maximum of two candidates to be on the ballot
4. The votes are counted by the AMA and not an independent third party

Really ......................... the USSR would have been proud of that independent and transparent election procedure.
Old 09-10-2014, 08:12 AM
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[QUOTE=init4fun;11877836]
YES !!!! >>>>> IF
Old 09-10-2014, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
AMA Elections Rigged?

1. You must be qualified by at least being a "Leader Member" and depending on position other qualifications. (community organizer won't do)
2. The EC Nomination Committee selects who meets the "qualifications"
3. The EC votes to approves a maximum of two candidates to be on the ballot
4. The votes are counted by the AMA and not an independent third party

Really ......................... the USSR would have been proud of that independent and transparent election procedure.
Brad nailed it ! ( Hey ,, I do give credit where credit is due ) All 4 points above are the actions of an EC that's overreached it's authority .
Old 09-10-2014, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
I believe the IF issue was already answered. OP has indicated he was told Rusty's actions were not inappropriate, by none other than the President of the AMA. Clearly it's not a widely held opinion. It's unknown if all of the other people cc'd on the OP's e-mail weighed in on the issue, but would presume not.
So one man's opinion is the final judge of whether or not it's right to use one's position to sway an election ? I don't recognize any one man as having been crowned King , Including the president of the AMA . If a majority of the members think it's wrong , maybe ol Mr. president himself may find hisself out of a job , Once the ballots begin to be counted by an outside firm again to insure the "purity" of the results ...
Old 09-10-2014, 08:29 AM
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porcia83
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In this particular case, I'm guessing his opinion counts. And yes, if the majority of people are not please with this scenario, or the situation Brad noted above, then they can vote out whoever it is they want gone, and work to elect members that are acceptable to them.
Old 09-10-2014, 09:35 AM
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I received the email from Rusty as I am a leader member and an AVP. I don't really know Rusty, but I do get very informative emails from him. It wasn't a good idea to campaign for his friend while conducting AMA business. It felt awkward to me when I read his statement. Should he step down or be relieved? I don't think so. Anybody should be able to say who they are voting for, but doing it on an AMA communication is not a good idea. I, like most people am going to vote for who I support.
The leader member emails are intended to be a source of communication from the AMA to the membership body. The duty of the leader member is to read the information and communicate it at the next club meeting, gathering, etc..
Old 09-10-2014, 10:10 AM
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i found his electioneering in an official email to be quite wrong. should have sent out a separate email for that,
+1

Being that LC's have much more influence and a wider audience than the average member, this email was ill-conceived and an apology should be issued. Something short of removal seems appropriate IMO, but the AMA has the option to take stronger action to give the impression of fairness in the election process. Most states have laws against such electioneering, rightly so.
Old 09-10-2014, 10:43 AM
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Democracy is two or more wolves and a sheep taking a vote on what's for dinner! A constitutional representative republic, as America is supposed to be, is equal respect for ALL peoples rights, Regardless of numbers, or social stature. IMO it would behoove everyone to know the difference.
Old 09-10-2014, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by F-16 viperman View Post
Democracy is two or more wolves and a sheep taking a vote on what's for dinner! A constitutional representative republic, as America is supposed to be, is equal respect for ALL peoples rights, Regardless of numbers, or social stature. IMO it would behoove everyone to know the difference.
Yeah, but how does that resemble AMA? Governance by oligarchy works differently.
Old 09-10-2014, 11:13 AM
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You guys haven't been paying much attention to our US government. We have a president that thinks he's a king/dictator and can break the law anytine he want and a bunch of old partisin farts that do nothing but try to save their's and their party's ass in the next election. Pay attention to that instead of the petty crap your bit chin about. O I guess a politian has to start somewhere to work his way up to the big boy bunch
Old 09-10-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
AMA Elections Rigged?

1. You must be qualified by at least being a "Leader Member" and depending on position other qualifications. (community organizer won't do)
2. The EC Nomination Committee selects who meets the "qualifications"
3. The EC votes to approves a maximum of two candidates to be on the ballot
4. The votes are counted by the AMA and not an independent third party

Really ......................... the USSR would have been proud of that independent and transparent election procedure.
In reality there can be THREE (3) nominees on an AMA Ex. Council Election Ballot. I was provided such position of not being on the prior EVP election three years ago.
The AMA Procedures have had that rule for many years. Nothing new.

The in-house vote counting has been bumped around several times over the years from 1980. Like any election, IMO, votes are counted before the election! HA, HA, HA!
Old 09-10-2014, 05:49 PM
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How many guns do you own, toolmaker? I suspect you're ready to save all of us citizens from Constitutional government.
Old 09-11-2014, 05:42 AM
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everybody but you

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