Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > AMA Discussions
Reload this Page >

Fear mongering? AMA members with airman certificates?

Notices
AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

Fear mongering? AMA members with airman certificates?

Old 09-22-2014, 05:00 AM
  #1  
phlpsfrnk
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
phlpsfrnk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Question Fear mongering? AMA members with airman certificates?

I recently looked at the AMA web site ‘Understanding the FAA's Interpretation of the Rule and How to Comment.’ and the first thing I read I could not believe what I was reading;

1. Are you a model aircraft enthusiast?
As a model aircraft enthusiast you are now subject to all the rules and regulations of the National Airspace System, including those intended for full-scale aircraft. If you are a private pilot and are cited for a violation while flying a model aircraft, your full-scale license may be jeopardized.

Fear mongering also known as scaremongering, fear mongering is the use of fear to influence other people into taking a certain action or thinking a certain way.

When they were published, I read with interest PL-112-95 SEC 336 and the FAA follow-up interpretation. I was confused by the AMA’s “The Academy of Model Aeronautics’ Areas of Concern FAA Interpretive Rule Regarding the Special Rule for Model Aircraft” and at the time wondered if they read the same documents I read. I have since reread these documents several times and at no time did I believe that my airman certificate was in “jeopardy”.

How many AMA members out there that also hold an FAA airman certificate feel that their certificate is in any way jeopardized by these documents?

Frank


Last edited by phlpsfrnk; 09-22-2014 at 05:19 AM. Reason: spelling
Old 09-22-2014, 05:42 AM
  #2  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk View Post
I recently looked at the AMA web site ‘Understanding the FAA's Interpretation of the Rule and How to Comment.’ and the first thing I read I could not believe what I was reading;

1. Are you a model aircraft enthusiast?
As a model aircraft enthusiast you are now subject to all the rules and regulations of the National Airspace System, including those intended for full-scale aircraft. If you are a private pilot and are cited for a violation while flying a model aircraft, your full-scale license may be jeopardized.

Fear mongering also known as scaremongering, fear mongering is the use of fear to influence other people into taking a certain action or thinking a certain way.

When they were published, I read with interest PL-112-95 SEC 336 and the FAA follow-up interpretation. I was confused by the AMA’s “The Academy of Model Aeronautics’ Areas of Concern FAA Interpretive Rule Regarding the Special Rule for Model Aircraft” and at the time wondered if they read the same documents I read. I have since reread these documents several times and at no time did I believe that my airman certificate was in “jeopardy”.

How many AMA members out there that also hold an FAA airman certificate feel that their certificate is in any way jeopardized by these documents?

Frank

Hmmm...seems consistant with a world in which privilege takes precedence over rights. With all of your past writings I find your question more than a little interesting considering the way you framed this query...But never-the-less, to answer your question; relying on a government to provide for you, your needs or wants, is also the same one that can take it back whenever they want... and for whatever reason they want. But what the hey...we now live in a major society that is more than eager to justify why some bureaucracy should be delegated as our keepers.
Old 09-22-2014, 06:05 AM
  #3  
phlpsfrnk
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
phlpsfrnk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
Hmmm...seems consistant with a world in which privilege takes precedence over rights. With all of your past writings I find your question more than a little interesting considering the way you framed this query...But never-the-less, to answer your question; relying on a government to provide for you, your needs or wants, is also the same one that can take it back whenever they want... and for whatever reason they want. But what the hey...we now live in a major society that is more than eager to justify why some bureaucracy should be delegated as our keepers.
crank,
I'm well aware of your feelings and conspiracy theories concerning the US Gov and do not understand your response to my question. What I find objectionable is the AMA’s statements concerning what may be in jeopardy. Do you hold an FAA airman certificate?

Frank
Old 09-22-2014, 06:32 AM
  #4  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Wait a bit there partner...your the one suggesting fear mongering...that's part and parcel to conspiracy theorists' minds... What AMA said has some validity IMO and is consistent with a "privileged' based mindset.

Oh, FWIW any paper of privilege I hold or don't hold is still just my business...but I can be certain some will try to make it their business...or theirs mine... That's the way the privilege based mentality works... Not a conspiracy theory... just being ultra pragmatic about reality as I see it.
Old 09-22-2014, 07:15 AM
  #5  
phlpsfrnk
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
phlpsfrnk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Yes or No. Do you believe the statement "your full-scale license may be jeopardized." to be true?

Frank
Old 09-22-2014, 09:24 AM
  #6  
Hossfly
 
Hossfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Caney, TX
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk View Post
Yes or No. Do you believe the statement "your full-scale license may be jeopardized." to be true?

Frank
NO!

Hey, Frank, I just opened up a special drawer and a special box. There are no "jeopardy-bugs" crawling around there. The Airline Transport Pilot is still readable along with a number of type ratings. Multi-Engine and Single Engine Land are also still there. Those cards were placed in the little special box some 18+ years ago (after many years of wear in my billfold) and neither the FAA are the AMA have arrived to take them away. My guess is that AMA is either scared or trying to make others scared. Oh gracious, AMA would never do that, would they? MY MY!

Last edited by Hossfly; 09-22-2014 at 09:27 AM.
Old 09-22-2014, 09:28 AM
  #7  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk View Post
Yes or No. Do you believe the statement "your full-scale license may be jeopardized." to be true?

Frank
As much as I'd like to give a simple answer as you request, privilege based reality isn't so simple...Let's say John keeps speed dialing FAA about a modelers actions that he considers unsafe...and at some point the FAA contact feels he must investigate to shut him up... The agent may very well tell the suspect modeler to cease or face further actions...The modeler says hooey...and just continues...The FAA agent then may decide to take retaliatory action based purely on his personal perception of defiance of his order... Now, some case may be made that his "privilege(s)" should be revoked, it will then depend highly on the defense the accused can afford... Bottom line; in a privilege based society your privilege is highly dependent on what you can afford. That's where we are now...The Pirker (sp) case should have made that point abundantly clear for those that are really paying attention. Fortunately he got some pro bono service but most won't be so lucky.

Last edited by littlecrankshaf; 09-22-2014 at 09:31 AM.
Old 09-22-2014, 09:45 AM
  #8  
init4fun
 
init4fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,809
Received 17 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

In Massachusetts , if your caught on your boat out in the harbor drunk , and you have an automobile driver's license , they will take your license away ....

.... Even though there is NO requirement to have an automobile driver's license to operate a boat to begin with !!!!

This IS a sad fact , and just goes to show what happens in a government run amok . Even if , right now , the issue presented by the OP isn't a threat , don't believe for a minute that something like this can't become a threat in the very near future .
Old 09-22-2014, 10:15 AM
  #9  
bradpaul
 
bradpaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apopka, FL
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

If a pilot that holds a full scale license, flying a RC model hit and damaged a full scale plane in flight, then yes, I think the FAA would pull his certificate.

And I would be in full agreement.
Old 09-22-2014, 10:18 AM
  #10  
phlpsfrnk
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
phlpsfrnk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
In Massachusetts , if your caught on your boat out in the harbor drunk , and you have an automobile driver's license , they will take your license away ....

.... Even though there is NO requirement to have an automobile driver's license to operate a boat to begin with !!!!

This IS a sad fact , and just goes to show what happens in a government run amok . Even if , right now , the issue presented by the OP isn't a threat , don't believe for a minute that something like this can't become a threat in the very near future .
Another reason I moved out of Taxachusetts to New Hampshire when I lived in New England. By that reasoning if I drive an RC car careless and recklessly on a public road I could lose my drivers license?

Frank
Old 09-22-2014, 10:43 AM
  #11  
MajorTomski
 
MajorTomski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 2,536
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

One: Yes, I hold both a private pilot and an A&P licence.
Two: I don't believe the FAA interpretive document as originally written contained a threat to the above licenses.
Three: Yes, it was 'what-if-ing' scare tactics on the part of the AMA.
Old 09-22-2014, 10:56 AM
  #12  
JohnShe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk View Post
I recently looked at the AMA web site ‘Understanding the FAA's Interpretation of the Rule and How to Comment.’ and the first thing I read I could not believe what I was reading;

1. Are you a model aircraft enthusiast?
As a model aircraft enthusiast you are now subject to all the rules and regulations of the National Airspace System, including those intended for full-scale aircraft. If you are a private pilot and are cited for a violation while flying a model aircraft, your full-scale license may be jeopardized.

Fear mongering also known as scaremongering, fear mongering is the use of fear to influence other people into taking a certain action or thinking a certain way.

When they were published, I read with interest PL-112-95 SEC 336 and the FAA follow-up interpretation. I was confused by the AMA’s “The Academy of Model Aeronautics’ Areas of Concern FAA Interpretive Rule Regarding the Special Rule for Model Aircraft” and at the time wondered if they read the same documents I read. I have since reread these documents several times and at no time did I believe that my airman certificate was in “jeopardy”.

How many AMA members out there that also hold an FAA airman certificate feel that their certificate is in any way jeopardized by these documents?

Frank

I don't know about you Frank, but I find every one of AMA's seven points to be filled with misinterpretation and scare mongering. Of course, it doesn't help that the FAA has grossly misinterpret the intent of section 336 and created a monster of their own. Congress could have helped by making section 336 a little less fuzzy.

I don't have areal pilot's ticket, so the AMA's misinterpretation doesn't scare or bother me. And I know that the FAA intends only to go after people who actually create a real danger to the NAS. If we follow the AMA safety guidelines, we will be invisible to the FAA.
Old 09-22-2014, 10:57 AM
  #13  
phlpsfrnk
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
phlpsfrnk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
If a pilot that holds a full scale license, flying a RC model hit and damaged a full scale plane in flight, then yes, I think the FAA would pull his certificate.

And I would be in full agreement.
Brad,
I won't argue the merits of your 'What if' but did you read anything in the PL 112-95 SEC 336 or the FAA's interpretation that could be perceived as a threat to an individual’s airman certificate of any rating?

Frank
Old 09-22-2014, 10:58 AM
  #14  
phlpsfrnk
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
phlpsfrnk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
I don't know about you Frank, but I find every one of AMA's seven points to be filled with misinterpretation and scare mongering. Of course, it doesn't help that the FAA has grossly misinterpret the intent of section 336 and created a monster of their own. Congress could have helped by making section 336 a little less fuzzy.

I don't have areal pilot's ticket, so the AMA's misinterpretation doesn't scare or bother me. And I know that the FAA intends only to go after people who actually create a real danger to the NAS. If we follow the AMA safety guidelines, we will be invisible to the FAA.
I agree.
Old 09-22-2014, 11:14 AM
  #15  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
If we follow the AMA safety guidelines, we will be invisible to the FAA.
Well, the fear mongering does work LOL
Old 09-22-2014, 11:43 AM
  #16  
TimJ
 
TimJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Orange County CA
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

With standing orders from the FAA to all Air Traffic Control to report back to the FAA all incidents involving model aircraft and to call local authorities to have the aircraft confiscated and person sited, It would not shock me a single bit. The FAA is currently doing everything they can to find and make examples of people. So it is not too far fetched to think that once the FAA figures out you are a full size pilot, that their lawyers will sink their teeth into that like a bull dog.

ONE MAJOR PROBLEM with the FAA interpretation is that their interpretation makes it illegal for us to fly in our own backyard. Do you really want our government taking away another one of our civil liberties?
Old 09-22-2014, 11:47 AM
  #17  
Top_Gunn
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Granger, IN
Posts: 2,199
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

[quote) Originally Posted by init4fun

In Massachusetts , if your caught on your boat out in the harbor drunk , and you have an automobile driver's license , they will take your license away ....

.... Even though there is NO requirement to have an automobile driver's license to operate a boat to begin with !!!!

This IS a sad fact , and just goes to show what happens in a government run amok . Even if , right now , the issue presented by the OP isn't a threat , don't believe for a minute that something like this can't become a threat in the very near future .
Another reason I moved out of Taxachusetts to New Hampshire when I lived in New England. By that reasoning if I drive an RC car careless and recklessly on a public road I could lose my drivers license?

Frank ´[quote]

And yet, under FAR §61.15, your airman's certificate can be revoked for an offense involving driving a car under the influence of alcohol or a drug, even though (sport pilot certificate aside) you don't need an automobile driver's license to fly, and even if you did, §61.15 doesn't turn on whether the motor vehicle offense cost you your license.. But they probably can't ding you for driving an RC car badly. Yet.

Last edited by Top_Gunn; 09-22-2014 at 11:50 AM.
Old 09-22-2014, 12:08 PM
  #18  
Sport_Pilot
 
Sport_Pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 16,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk View Post
crank,
I'm well aware of your feelings and conspiracy theories concerning the US Gov and do not understand your response to my question. What I find objectionable is the AMA’s statements concerning what may be in jeopardy. Do you hold an FAA airman certificate?

Frank

Hey, why don't we protest by burning our certificates. I would if I could find it. Lost it years ago!
Old 09-22-2014, 12:26 PM
  #19  
toolmaker7341
 
toolmaker7341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lockport, NY
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
Well, the fear mongering does work LOL
You never answered the question.So do you have a pilots licence or not??? I suppose its none of our business like your location.
Old 09-22-2014, 12:54 PM
  #20  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by toolmaker7341 View Post
You never answered the question.So do you have a pilots licence or not??? I suppose its none of our business like your location.
at least someone has a clue... Not your's or anyone else's buisness in here... This thread isn't about me or you, what we have or don't have or where we are at ... Fwiw I am in another town than I was earlier...so, not hard to see...makes absolutely no difference as it is neither here nor there...
Old 09-22-2014, 12:57 PM
  #21  
Chipper Griewahn
Member
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Richmond Hill, GA
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
If a pilot that holds a full scale license, flying a RC model hit and damaged a full scale plane in flight, then yes, I think the FAA would pull his certificate.

And I would be in full agreement.
So if I crashed my car into an airplane should I lose both lic???
Old 09-22-2014, 01:00 PM
  #22  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Chipper Griewahn View Post
So if I crashed my car into an airplane should I lose both lic???
You really shouldn't be flying your car...
Old 09-22-2014, 01:04 PM
  #23  
bradpaul
 
bradpaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apopka, FL
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Chipper Griewahn View Post
So if I crashed my car into an airplane should I lose both lic???
If you have a flying car, then yes.
Old 09-22-2014, 01:13 PM
  #24  
JohnShe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
You really shouldn't be flying your car...
Yes, what happened to our flying cars anyway?
Old 09-22-2014, 01:18 PM
  #25  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
Yes, what happened to our flying cars anyway?
i don"t know what happened to yours...don"t care in the least either.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.