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FAA working to make radio control flight illegal

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FAA working to make radio control flight illegal

Old 10-18-2014, 10:36 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
There is one phrase that sums up my stand regarding the Federal Government and it's bureaucrats trying to take away freedom, it was supposedly uttered by King Leonidas to Xerxes at Thermopylae : MOLON LABE !
So the model airplane cops will have to pry your model airplane transmitter from your cold stiff fingers. Now, why would they want to do that? Are you going to interfere with full scale operations? Are you going to endanger the populace or property? Are you going to fly where you are not wanted? What kind of stupid stunt are you going to pull that will bring out the model airplane cops with guns a-blazing?
Old 10-18-2014, 02:30 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by skylark-flier View Post


Thanks again,
Jon Doe, AMA member without a nearby club since 1973, flying since 1955, and never a problem
Radio controlled model technology existed in the 50's? Or did you fly control line?

On another note I realized today that the FAA does indeed have control over model aviation as the AMA emailed me a TFR for my area starting tomorrow. Which prohibits radio controlled model aircraft operations with a 32 nm radius of the determined area.

Last edited by AllModesR/C; 10-18-2014 at 03:03 PM.
Old 10-18-2014, 03:09 PM
  #28  
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Well lets see, Germany had rc bombs in WW2, the US was working on Drones controled by radio, and as a matter of fact, Jon Denny and the Denny Plane did also. And are you sure that the FAA would now if someone in your area tossed a rc plane up in their back yard that they would swoop down and hall that person away? [the drone work was by Denny also]
Old 10-18-2014, 03:12 PM
  #29  
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Promise I'll leern to spell some-day
Old 10-18-2014, 03:19 PM
  #30  
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Sorry how could I forget the Good Brothers and the first rc contest in the US in 1937.
Old 10-18-2014, 04:52 PM
  #31  
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The FAA is just another example of the Party of Lawyers wanting to control everything we do.
Old 10-18-2014, 06:05 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by binns aero View Post
And are you sure that the FAA would now if someone in your area tossed a rc plane up in their back yard that they would swoop down and hall that person away? [the drone work was by Denny also]
Good question but I personally would not want to find out. :-)




Does anyone have pictures of any R/C planes from the 40's or 50's? How did the transmitters look like? Where they like modern two stick designs?

Last edited by AllModesR/C; 10-18-2014 at 06:08 PM.
Old 10-18-2014, 07:35 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by AllModesR/C View Post
Good question but I personally would not want to find out. :-)
Does anyone have pictures of any R/C planes from the 40's or 50's? How did the transmitters look like? Where they like modern two stick designs?
In the '40s transmitters were generally single channel with a stand for setting the transmitter on a stand and a long antenna. In the early 50's they were mostly one big box, one stick. By mid-50s, I only ever saw (never looked for much) a big box with cumbersome sticks. By 1960s transmitters were about same as square box, rather deep sided, transmitters and heavy. By 1970s pretty much same but flat face and back with with two sticks and some switches. I got into RC about 1972-3. (Heavy ,modeling CL and FF) Kraft had a dual channel, transmitter channel select by switch from channel to channel. Basic transmitter with two receivers and 4 servos, one switch harness, retail ( not much discounts back then) was $800.00 yankee green. Mid -70s in came the Japanese radios and prices went down with some re-figuring. In 1971-79 I owned a Hobby Shop in Mt. Prospect. IL. I imported the Hinode Radio, 27 mhz. from Japan. I paid about $80.00 per 4 channel basic Radio with TMTR, 4 servos and a receiver. There were 7 wires on a servo. I sold them as fast as I could get them until the MRC hit the market. I learned RC on one. Worked well but now and then some trucker on a 2-way radio would pull an unknown maneuver on you. But they did sell for a while.
By early 70s if I recall correctly most US RC units were not to be found. I had sold my hobby shop and never did much with anything but my Krafts. 1981 brought in the new frequencies and things got MUCH better. You young fellows have no idea what you missed.
BTW, binns aero, the Good Brothers, Dr. Walt Good was the first RC model to fly in the USA, single channel, I forget the freq., Model was called the Guff. One replica hangs in the AMA Museum. I have had one for many years. It still flies with ST .61, use of 3 channel, throttle, rudder, and elevator, 100" w.s. I love to send it up when a bunch of the newbies have no idea what it is. OTOH I have no idea how they do all the crazies these young and some old fellows do. It is all in fun!
Old 10-18-2014, 08:16 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
In the '40s transmitters were generally single channel with a stand for setting the transmitter on a stand and a long antenna. In the early 50's they were mostly one big box, one stick. By mid-50s, I only ever saw (never looked for much) a big box with cumbersome sticks. By 1960s transmitters were about same as square box, rather deep sided, transmitters and heavy. By 1970s pretty much same but flat face and back with with two sticks and some switches. I got into RC about 1972-3. (Heavy ,modeling CL and FF) Kraft had a dual channel, transmitter channel select by switch from channel to channel. Basic transmitter with two receivers and 4 servos, one switch harness, retail ( not much discounts back then) was $800.00 yankee green. Mid -70s in came the Japanese radios and prices went down with some re-figuring. In 1971-79 I owned a Hobby Shop in Mt. Prospect. IL. I imported the Hinode Radio, 27 mhz. from Japan. I paid about $80.00 per 4 channel basic Radio with TMTR, 4 servos and a receiver. There were 7 wires on a servo. I sold them as fast as I could get them until the MRC hit the market. I learned RC on one. Worked well but now and then some trucker on a 2-way radio would pull an unknown maneuver on you. But they did sell for a while.
By early 70s if I recall correctly most US RC units were not to be found. I had sold my hobby shop and never did much with anything but my Krafts. 1981 brought in the new frequencies and things got MUCH better. You young fellows have no idea what you missed.
BTW, binns aero, the Good Brothers, Dr. Walt Good was the first RC model to fly in the USA, single channel, I forget the freq., Model was called the Guff. One replica hangs in the AMA Museum. I have had one for many years. It still flies with ST .61, use of 3 channel, throttle, rudder, and elevator, 100" w.s. I love to send it up when a bunch of the newbies have no idea what it is. OTOH I have no idea how they do all the crazies these young and some old fellows do. It is all in fun!
Great info! Wow $800 was a lot of money back then. Heck it still is.

Just curious why did you sell the shop in Mt. Prospect? Do you remember Stanton Hobby Shop on Milwaukee in Chicago? That place was great I spent my weekends there as a kid and teen. Sadly they closed around 2002 or 2003. Also do you recall Venture Hobbies in Wheeling? Another great store that has since closed up shop. If I ever come across a small fortune I'd love to open up a hobby shop around Chicago.

What year do you think this system if from?

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tag/4709365141.html

Last edited by AllModesR/C; 10-18-2014 at 09:19 PM.
Old 10-18-2014, 10:09 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by AllModesR/C View Post
Great info! Wow $800 was a lot of money back then. Heck it still is.

Just curious why did you sell the shop in Mt. Prospect? Do you remember Stanton Hobby Shop on Milwaukee in Chicago? That place was great I spent my weekends there as a kid and teen. Sadly they closed around 2002 or 2003. Also do you recall Venture Hobbies in Wheeling? Another great store that has since closed up shop. If I ever come across a small fortune I'd love to open up a hobby shop around Chicago.
Why sell the shop? # 1 was because I opened it as I was a rather new United Airlines Pilot and I needed something in case I got furloughed, as it was happening big time.
Then changes came and a lot of furloughed guys were being recalled. Once I felt safe I was ready to get out of a second job. Yes, I knew Don at Venture. He and I were best of friends. He bought out most of my stuff. He got a good deal and I got free! I could get much deeper here but there were a number of other reasons that I was tired of working a second job.
Joe Stanton was a great person. Unfortunately he was rather far down into Chicago. Most of the toy-airplane folks were way outside in the suburbs. In addition the RC flying sites were almost all outside Chi-town itself. When I opened up Aero-Sports and Crafts in Mt. Prospect there were no big discount businesses. There were model manufactures IN THE USA ! Mfgers sold to Distributors, who sold to hobby stores and the hobby stores sold to model airplane builders. When the big importers such as B.Paul in Philadelphia and Hobby People on the West Coast came into business with everything being imported and far less expensive to direct mail order, then the local Hobby Shops began to hurt. B. Paul financed a number of small mail-order conglomerates that are now known as Horizon, Hobbico, all out of the original TOWER, and the GREAT PLANES. The small Local Hobby Shop is, IMO, soon to be a thing of the past. In most places they are already gone.

So there is some of the story. Here in Houston, TX area the L.H. Shops have almost all self-destructed. I would never ever advise anyone to waste money for setting up a Hobby Shop. Grab a magazine, pick out what you want or open up a computer web site, order in what you want and it will be there soon. With the taxes that the small business man gets saddled with, one cannot feed the kids with a hobby shop. Even way back in my time, I had to leave a $50 bill every couple weeks in the back room where my fuel was stored just so the city "fire-inspector" would allow me to have extra fuels in stock. That would probably be $500 today. HS? NFW!
Old 10-19-2014, 03:57 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by AllModesR/C View Post
((Jon Doe, AMA member without a nearby club since 1973, flying since 1955, and never a problem)) Radio controlled model technology existed in the 50's? Or did you fly control line?

On another note I realized today that the FAA does indeed have control over model aviation as the AMA emailed me a TFR for my area starting tomorrow. Which prohibits radio controlled model aircraft operations with a 32 nm radius of the determined area.
Geez, guys - RC in the 50's. No, I'm not quite THAT old, although I do remember the occasional news item about RC demonstrations at that time. Radio units were HUGE back then, ground-mounted antennas, massive transmitter units mounted on stands. That stuff was a bit before my time.

Back then I was, and still am, a C/L flier - got my first plane for Christmas 1954, had it in the air in March 1955. I was 7 yrs old back then. My first RC plane was the original SIG Kadet in 1973, flying on an Enya .35 and originally controlled with a EK Logictrol radio. That plane was just retired this past Christmas and my new Kadet Mk-II replaced it.

Speaking of radios, that Heathkit came out in 1979.

Most definitely, FAA truly does control ALL aviation within the US, with one very notable exception - C/L. C/L planes are looked on as "tethered" and officially cannot leave the ground. I don't understand all the legalities of the issue but the general picture is that the pilot stands on the ground, plane is directly connected to pilot through lines, so the plane and pilot are "legally" on the ground.

Glad I'm not a lawyer.
Old 10-19-2014, 06:11 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by AllModesR/C View Post
Does anyone have pictures of any R/C planes from the 40's or 50's? How did the transmitters look like? Where they like modern two stick designs?

Well , since I haven't yet had my butt chewed for posting off topic in this thread , I guess I'll post up a couple for ya that I know I've posted before but , new to you , right ?

The Biggest box radio that says "Kraft Tone Transmitter" is a single channel (rudder only) Vacuum tube unit from the 1950s . The others in the picture are 1960s/1970s vintage . A lot of folks liked the single knob design on the red one , that knob actually controlled 3 channels (rudder , elevator , and ailerons) and folks today will often convert them to modern electronics so someone who has lost the use of a hand can still fly . The 9 volt batteries are a great blast from the past as well , bet ya didn't know the original 9 volt was 5 times larger than today's and we had similar batteries going all the way up to 67.5 volts each that my kraft tone used two of in series for 135 volts on the tube's plates . The receiver has tubes as well , three of them , and the poor put upon plane had to carry not only the 22.5 volt plate batteries but also some 1.5 volt batteries for the tube's heaters (cathode in a vacuum tube needs to be red hot to emit electrons) ..... While were on batteries , yes , believe it or not there could even be one more set if you were crazy enough to try spark ignition with RC and those would be the ignition batteries for the engine . This is my O&R .60 spark ignition gas burning engine of late 1940s vintage . One quart of what we jokingly called "Whale oil" (straight 90wt) in 3/4 of a gallon of white gas and it'd be more fuel than I ever burned through it , that's for sure .
Old 10-19-2014, 07:21 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by skylark-flier View Post


Most definitely, FAA truly does control ALL aviation within the US, with one very notable exception - C/L. C/L planes are looked on as "tethered" and officially cannot leave the ground. I don't understand all the legalities of the issue but the general picture is that the pilot stands on the ground, plane is directly connected to pilot through lines, so the plane and pilot are "legally" on the ground.

Glad I'm not a lawyer.
I wonder if kite flyers use the same rationale??? LOL
.
Old 10-19-2014, 07:53 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Why sell the shop? # 1 was because I opened it as I was a rather new United Airlines Pilot and I needed something in case I got furloughed, as it was happening big time.
Then changes came and a lot of furloughed guys were being recalled. Once I felt safe I was ready to get out of a second job. Yes, I knew Don at Venture. He and I were best of friends. He bought out most of my stuff. He got a good deal and I got free! I could get much deeper here but there were a number of other reasons that I was tired of working a second job.
Joe Stanton was a great person. Unfortunately he was rather far down into Chicago. Most of the toy-airplane folks were way outside in the suburbs. In addition the RC flying sites were almost all outside Chi-town itself. When I opened up Aero-Sports and Crafts in Mt. Prospect there were no big discount businesses. There were model manufactures IN THE USA ! Mfgers sold to Distributors, who sold to hobby stores and the hobby stores sold to model airplane builders. When the big importers such as B.Paul in Philadelphia and Hobby People on the West Coast came into business with everything being imported and far less expensive to direct mail order, then the local Hobby Shops began to hurt. B. Paul financed a number of small mail-order conglomerates that are now known as Horizon, Hobbico, all out of the original TOWER, and the GREAT PLANES. The small Local Hobby Shop is, IMO, soon to be a thing of the past. In most places they are already gone.

So there is some of the story. Here in Houston, TX area the L.H. Shops have almost all self-destructed. I would never ever advise anyone to waste money for setting up a Hobby Shop. Grab a magazine, pick out what you want or open up a computer web site, order in what you want and it will be there soon. With the taxes that the small business man gets saddled with, one cannot feed the kids with a hobby shop. Even way back in my time, I had to leave a $50 bill every couple weeks in the back room where my fuel was stored just so the city "fire-inspector" would allow me to have extra fuels in stock. That would probably be $500 today. HS? NFW!
So how does Hobby Town USA stay in business? There is a small hobby shop in Norridge on Lawrence that I just found the other day. They specialize only in R/C and I will try to patronize them as much as possible as like you said the ma n pa shops are becoming a very rare commodity these days. What has Don been up to since closing Venture?

Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Well , since I haven't yet had my butt chewed for posting off topic in this thread , I guess I'll post up a couple for ya that I know I've posted before but , new to you , right ?

The Biggest box radio that says "Kraft Tone Transmitter" is a single channel (rudder only) Vacuum tube unit from the 1950s . The others in the picture are 1960s/1970s vintage . A lot of folks liked the single knob design on the red one , that knob actually controlled 3 channels (rudder , elevator , and ailerons) and folks today will often convert them to modern electronics so someone who has lost the use of a hand can still fly . The 9 volt batteries are a great blast from the past as well , bet ya didn't know the original 9 volt was 5 times larger than today's and we had similar batteries going all the way up to 67.5 volts each that my kraft tone used two of in series for 135 volts on the tube's plates . The receiver has tubes as well , three of them , and the poor put upon plane had to carry not only the 22.5 volt plate batteries but also some 1.5 volt batteries for the tube's heaters (cathode in a vacuum tube needs to be red hot to emit electrons) ..... While were on batteries , yes , believe it or not there could even be one more set if you were crazy enough to try spark ignition with RC and those would be the ignition batteries for the engine . This is my O&R .60 spark ignition gas burning engine of late 1940s vintage . One quart of what we jokingly called "Whale oil" (straight 90wt) in 3/4 of a gallon of white gas and it'd be more fuel than I ever burned through it , that's for sure .
Nice pics, thank you for posting. It is amazing how far RC technology has come.

Last edited by AllModesR/C; 10-19-2014 at 07:56 AM.
Old 10-19-2014, 10:35 AM
  #40  
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Hey AllModes Walts brother got the short end of the stick, he had to run along side it holding the wing on take-off, I think my first radio was a Wen-Mac single with one button and a escapment,had it in a Live-Wire minnie. Moved up to a C/S and a Ace 2-T once you got the "zoom" down-pat you could almost do anything. Yeh back-in the day when the FAA thought this was just a passing fad.
Old 10-19-2014, 11:59 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by tailskid View Post
I'm sorry, but I have dealt with the FAA and believe me they want ALL the control of everything that leaves the surface of the earth in the USA. I don't trust them - plain and simple......and I hope I am 100% in ERROR. Time will tell.
Agreed!
Old 10-19-2014, 12:20 PM
  #42  
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Well it only makes sense,when the aliens land on earth who wouuld you rather they talk to, the FAA or some-one from the AMA ?
Old 10-19-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by binns aero View Post
Well it only makes sense,when the aliens land on earth who wouuld you rather they talk to, the FAA or some-one from the AMA ?
Hopefully when they show up they do the right thing and just abduct the president...and hold him for ransom... like One Miilllliion Dollars... The joke will be on them... LOL
Old 10-19-2014, 02:27 PM
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Dito, Just got done with 2150.3B Lets all be good little pilots and rock on! Does anyone want to talk about patchin trexler tires?
Old 10-19-2014, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by binns aero View Post
hey Tim, 6 active clubs lets do the ratio again.
Binns I find there are 16 clubs with 25 miles of West Milford NJ 07480 U might join one and find a friend.


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We found 16 clubs that match the information you entered.

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[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #F7F6F3"]
[TD] ROCKLAND COUNTY RC CLUB
Flying Site Details
18.78 miles [/TD]
[TD] 428 [/TD]
[TD] 155 [/TD]
[TD] KEVIN MINTS
Email Contact [/TD]
[TD] Phone: 845-351-2590
Visit Website
[/TD]
[TD] 2 [/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: White"]
[TD] HUDSON VALLEY R/C CLUB
Flying Site Details
21.64 miles [/TD]
[TD] 4880 [/TD]
[TD] 61 [/TD]
[TD] BRUCE LEACH
Email Contact [/TD]
[TD] Phone: 845-786-1879
Visit Website
[/TD]
[TD] 2 [/TD]
[TD] Yes [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #F7F6F3"]
[TD] OLD TIME EAGLES MAC INC
22.53 miles [/TD]
[TD] 1048 [/TD]
[TD] 13 [/TD]
[TD] DOMINIC ALGIERI [/TD]
[TD] Phone: 973-812-0455
[/TD]
[TD] 2 [/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: White"]
[TD] METROPOLITAN SPORT SQUADRON
Flying Site Details
23.28 miles [/TD]
[TD] 262 [/TD]
[TD] 101 [/TD]
[TD] THOMAS SCHIAVONE
Email Contact [/TD]
[TD] Phone: 201-391-9534
[/TD]
[TD] 2 [/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #F7F6F3"]
[TD] LAKELAND AERO MODEL CLUB INC
Flying Site Details
23.42 miles [/TD]
[TD] 421 [/TD]
[TD] 79 [/TD]
[TD] HAROLD KEMP
Email Contact [/TD]
[TD] Phone: 201.945.3111
Visit Website
[/TD]
[TD] 2 [/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: White"]
[TD] INTERSTATE MODEL FLYING CLUB
Flying Site Details
24.68 miles[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Old 10-19-2014, 03:37 PM
  #46  
Corsair2013
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The FAA is like almost every other government agency - they lack funding and don't have enough staff. Look at the food industry - very important and watched by homeland security - a person "might" check on a food manufacturing plant every 5 years if they are lucky.

If the FAA declared all remote control planes illegal nothing would happen unless you are flying next to a police station and even then I doubt they would even know the federal law.

Keep flying and having fun...................

Keith
Old 10-19-2014, 03:44 PM
  #47  
JohnShe
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
Hopefully when they show up they do the right thing and just abduct the president...and hold him for ransom... like One Miilllliion Dollars... The joke will be on them... LOL
It would be a better joke if the abducted you. I bet you could use a good anal probing.
Old 10-19-2014, 03:48 PM
  #48  
binns aero
 
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Do me a favor and check some of those club websites, Circle Burners (Control LIne),NJRCC I was pres. Club broke up due to some-one being a child molester,Formed new club Mountain Modlers most meatings have 3 people.Waywayanda and Rox. Are great clubs,to far to drive. NJRCC 11 members, I don't thinkso, unless you have no morals at all. And you will be the 3rd. person to know If i decide to join a club. But thanks for your concern.
Old 10-19-2014, 04:03 PM
  #49  
binns aero
 
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1018? see above do math. Time to move on and talk about flying and good times.
Old 10-19-2014, 06:06 PM
  #50  
tailskid
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Amen!

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