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FAA working to make radio control flight illegal

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FAA working to make radio control flight illegal

Old 10-19-2014, 06:30 PM
  #51  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
It would be a better joke if the abducted you. I bet you could use a good anal probing.
thanks for giving us some insight to your way of thinking...
helps explain a lot you have said here.
Old 10-19-2014, 07:24 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by AllModesR/C View Post
So how does Hobby Town USA stay in business? There is a small hobby shop in Norridge on Lawrence that I just found the other day. They specialize only in R/C and I will try to patronize them as much as possible as like you said the ma n pa shops are becoming a very rare commodity these days. What has Don been up to since closing Venture?
I really don't have any idea about Hobby Town. Some years ago I visited a couple. They had nothing that interests me.

As for as Don, some 8-10 years ago when he sold out the first time he moved to St. Louis. I have not seen him but about 2 times. I have a daughter and her family plus a son and his family that live not far from Venture, and I usually get there a couple of times each year. I think it has changed hands several time. For certain it is NOT the Hobby Shop that Don Phillips founded. Actually I have owned a summer place on a small lake in Crystal Falls Michigan, the upper peninsula, for way before I retired from UN-Tied () Airlines which was Feb. 19, 1996. The current hobby market is nothing but simple mail-order an such at this time. Kind of like the 1$ stores now. They have so much junk but it fills a lot of needs. Take a look at the stuff here in the upper forum about Hobby King. People are chasing pennies for trying to save 2-cents.
Thankfully I don't have to live that way, so I don't really keep up with much of it.
Don and I, besides the hobby shop stuff, both did something common. He flew the Fairchild C-123 in Vietnam. I flew it in a Reserve unit in Pittsburg. about 2 years. PA. We both owned a hobby shop, so we had lots to talk about and I did my best to help him learn about RC and all modeling. The difference was folks were shooting at him. No one did shoot at me but probably wanted to. I would like to catch up with that guy again. He was and I am sure still is the best Gentleman one could ever hope to meet.
So "All Modes", when you get your Hobby Shop going, let us old timers know where you are and maybe we can come see you. Maybe you will take over Don's place.
Thanks much for your conversation and inputs. Makes my Day, really!
Old 10-20-2014, 12:58 AM
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So who did shoot JFK?
Old 10-20-2014, 06:12 AM
  #54  
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Binns Aero, the ratio is still higher. Sorry. AMA still has more people that can police themselves than the FAA. Your argument is still void.
Old 10-20-2014, 06:18 AM
  #55  
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Hobby Town USA stays in business because they know what is popular in radio control at most times. At this stage of radio control hobby, Building is NOT the trend in radio control. This is saddening considering I am a scale modeler. Anyhow, like any business if you keep in stock what your customers need, you will be in business for a long time. If go against the grain and only keep in stock sig dope and balsa wood, you will be gone in 3 months. BTW the average life cycle of a hobby shop is about 3 years. The lucky business person will last longer. The great business person will thrive.

To sit back and say that one particular hobby shop put you out of business does not make much sense. It is the responsibility of the business owner to make sure they are known, and carry the right products at the right prices.

Anyhow, we are getting way off topic here.

Last edited by TimJ; 10-20-2014 at 06:25 AM.
Old 10-20-2014, 08:18 AM
  #56  
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Given the fact that some guys had to apologize because their tempers got a little out of hand i'd like to offer this... Let's ALL work together to solve this issue rather than try to be 1/4 quarter quarterbacks . If we don't ,we'll end up like our current government that can't seem to solve anything 'cause their to busy fighting and pushing their own agendas. If we don't you can be sure that WE WILL LOOSE OUR RIGHT TO FLY . Let's not throw the whole thing on the EC's lap then throw rocks because it didn't go our way. BE PROACTIVE , NOT REACTIVE. our hobby depends on it.
Old 10-20-2014, 08:36 AM
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"The document it wants to kill is called Advisory Circular 91-57, and it's a really important one for those who fly drones: issued in 1981, the document sets the voluntary guidelines under which drones can be flown (you can read much more about that in our earlier explanation here). The fact that the guidelines contained within it—do not fly higher than 400 feet, do not operate near an airport, etc.—are just that, guidelines, was seen as an implicit suggestion that there are no legally enforceable regulations under which to fine or arrest drone pilots. "
The idea that these "guidelines" are voluntary" or "suggestions" that drone pilots may or may not follow and still be legal is why we have a problem. If instead the hobby drone pilots would have taken the correct attitude that these "guidelines" are what are to be followed IN ORDER TO CONTINUE FLYING DRONES AS A HOBBY there wouldn't be a problem. The FAA is not trying to destroy the RC Hobby. Instead, it is the drone pilots who refuse to accept some simple RC HOBBY RULES who are destroying the hobby.
Old 10-20-2014, 08:50 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by rgburrill View Post
"The document it wants to kill is called Advisory Circular 91-57, and it's a really important one for those who fly drones: issued in 1981, the document sets the voluntary guidelines under which drones can be flown (you can read much more about that in our earlier explanation here). The fact that the guidelines contained within it—do not fly higher than 400 feet, do not operate near an airport, etc.—are just that, guidelines, was seen as an implicit suggestion that there are no legally enforceable regulations under which to fine or arrest drone pilots. "
The idea that these "guidelines" are voluntary" or "suggestions" that drone pilots may or may not follow and still be legal is why we have a problem
. If instead the hobby drone pilots would have taken the correct attitude that these "guidelines" are what are to be followed IN ORDER TO CONTINUE FLYING DRONES AS A HOBBY there wouldn't be a problem. The FAA is not trying to destroy the RC Hobby. Instead, it is the drone pilots who refuse to accept some simple RC HOBBY RULES who are destroying the hobby.
The idea that AC 91-57 is only voluntary/suggestions has been AMA's position for decades, in particular with regard to FAA stated position in the AC that restricts model aircraft operations to less that 400' AGL everywhere. It isn't hobby drone pilots that have created to problem by not taking the correct attitude toward the advisory, but they do seem to be the scapegoats du jour.
Old 10-20-2014, 09:00 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
The idea that AC 91-57 is only voluntary/suggestions has been AMA's position for decades, in particular with regard to FAA stated position in the AC that restricts model aircraft operations to less that 400' AGL everywhere. It isn't hobby drone pilots that have created to problem by not taking the correct attitude toward the advisory, but they do seem to be the scapegoats du jour.
How true... I know I've guided gliders well above what the advisory states...and I know of many others doing the same...whether they will admit it or not is another question...but what they hey, just throw FPV under the bus and pretend its all their fault. Would be funny if not so sad.
Old 10-20-2014, 10:02 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by rgburrill View Post
"The document it wants to kill is called Advisory Circular 91-57, and it's a really important one for those who fly drones: issued in 1981, the document sets the voluntary guidelines under which drones can be flown (you can read much more about that in our earlier explanation here). The fact that the guidelines contained within it—do not fly higher than 400 feet, do not operate near an airport, etc.—are just that, guidelines, was seen as an implicit suggestion that there are no legally enforceable regulations under which to fine or arrest drone pilots. "
The idea that these "guidelines" are voluntary" or "suggestions" that drone pilots may or may not follow and still be legal is why we have a problem. If instead the hobby drone pilots would have taken the correct attitude that these "guidelines" are what are to be followed IN ORDER TO CONTINUE FLYING DRONES AS A HOBBY there wouldn't be a problem. The FAA is not trying to destroy the RC Hobby. Instead, it is the drone pilots who refuse to accept some simple RC HOBBY RULES who are destroying the hobby.
a drone needs to be defined for what it is. A aircraft that typically travels beyond a typical line of site flight path . So many times the general public comes up to me at events and automatically labels my " Model aircraft " as a drone. you have the main stream media to thank for that. i have to correct them and tell them they are not drones but model aircraft. I think the FAA evens throws them all into on basket .
Old 10-20-2014, 10:55 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
Especially as there is currently no way to comply with PL 112-95 Sec. 336. No nationwide community based organization has either been recognized by the FAA or declared that they are a nationwide community based organization to comply with the requirements of Sec. 336.

It is a game of CHICKEN, the FAA won't recognize and the AMA won't declare.
CBO is just a legal term. There is nothing in the law or regulations for recognizing a CBO. No need to do so. The law is that a CBO rules are good for RC flight and the AMA meets the legal definition. That is all that is required. If it was required that the FAA recolonize the AMA as such then they could demand the rules be rewritten to their liking or they will not recognize the AMA. I don't think we want that.
Old 10-20-2014, 12:14 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by drac1 View Post
So who did shoot JFK?
drac1, I f you were talking to me, perhaps you should re-read the article above your post. I simply stated that there was a bond between Mr. D. Phillips and myself. I flew the C-123 airplane in reserve status. He flew that airplane type in a WAR zone. A little place called Vietnam. Maybe you never heard of it, but some of us did.
Old 10-20-2014, 12:54 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
I really don't have any idea about Hobby Town. Some years ago I visited a couple. They had nothing that interests me.

As for as Don, some 8-10 years ago when he sold out the first time he moved to St. Louis. I have not seen him but about 2 times. I have a daughter and her family plus a son and his family that live not far from Venture, and I usually get there a couple of times each year. I think it has changed hands several time. For certain it is NOT the Hobby Shop that Don Phillips founded. Actually I have owned a summer place on a small lake in Crystal Falls Michigan, the upper peninsula, for way before I retired from UN-Tied () Airlines which was Feb. 19, 1996. The current hobby market is nothing but simple mail-order an such at this time. Kind of like the 1$ stores now. They have so much junk but it fills a lot of needs. Take a look at the stuff here in the upper forum about Hobby King. People are chasing pennies for trying to save 2-cents.
Thankfully I don't have to live that way, so I don't really keep up with much of it.
Don and I, besides the hobby shop stuff, both did something common. He flew the Fairchild C-123 in Vietnam. I flew it in a Reserve unit in Pittsburg. about 2 years. PA. We both owned a hobby shop, so we had lots to talk about and I did my best to help him learn about RC and all modeling. The difference was folks were shooting at him. No one did shoot at me but probably wanted to. I would like to catch up with that guy again. He was and I am sure still is the best Gentleman one could ever hope to meet.
So "All Modes", when you get your Hobby Shop going, let us old timers know where you are and maybe we can come see you. Maybe you will take over Don's place.
Thanks much for your conversation and inputs. Makes my Day, really!
It was a pleasure speaking to you. Thanks for sharing your stories.

Last edited by AllModesR/C; 10-20-2014 at 12:58 PM.
Old 10-20-2014, 01:04 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by TimJ View Post
Hobby Town USA stays in business because they know what is popular in radio control at most times. At this stage of radio control hobby, Building is NOT the trend in radio control. This is saddening considering I am a scale modeler. Anyhow, like any business if you keep in stock what your customers need, you will be in business for a long time. If go against the grain and only keep in stock sig dope and balsa wood, you will be gone in 3 months. BTW the average life cycle of a hobby shop is about 3 years. The lucky business person will last longer. The great business person will thrive.

To sit back and say that one particular hobby shop put you out of business does not make much sense. It is the responsibility of the business owner to make sure they are known, and carry the right products at the right prices.

Anyhow, we are getting way off topic here.
I noticed the last few years Hobby Town USA has gotten more toy orientated. They don't even stock glow plugs for nitro motors anymore. Anyways I found a small ma and pa strictly RC hobby shop a few miles from my house that I will try to patronize as much as possible. In fact every hobbyist should always try to support the local shop as much as possible. I know it is not always possible but if we all do our part we can help keep them in business.

Last edited by AllModesR/C; 10-20-2014 at 01:07 PM.
Old 10-20-2014, 04:59 PM
  #65  
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We are fortunate to have two Hobby Town USA's in the area that are run by folks who know what the Flying R/C community wants and makes sure they have it or can get it rapidly at a very competitive price.

They also support our club activities because our membership consistently supports them.

Do they have other 'stuff' for sale....obviously, as R/C flyers are a fickle group and their purchases alone couldn't pay the bills, so diversity helps keep them both thriving

All our 'independent' hobby stores are long, long gone
Old 10-20-2014, 05:38 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Hinckley Bill View Post
We are fortunate to have two Hobby Town USA's in the area that are run by folks who know what the Flying R/C community wants and makes sure they have it or can get it rapidly at a very competitive price.

They also support our club activities because our membership consistently supports them.

Do they have other 'stuff' for sale....obviously, as R/C flyers are a fickle group and their purchases alone couldn't pay the bills, so diversity helps keep them both thriving

All our 'independent' hobby stores are long, long gone
The difference is I can get toys at any toy store like Toys R US but you can only get nitro fuel or a servo at a hobby shop. I was specifically talking about the Northbrook IL store. They used to carry nitro and even gasoline powered boats now it seems all their stuff is electric. Maybe it's just this one store.
Old 10-20-2014, 10:57 PM
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That's the problem with RC: Electric motors. Usually, when the media sensationalizes a story involving an RC plane, it's always a drone. Drones have electric motors, whether it be a quad copter or plank. Stick a camera and down link on it, and there's no difference between a model airplane and a drone. So, it's a drone, and people can make money with a drone. I guess everybody will have to wait and see what the FAA comes up with next. Meanwhile, our local hobby shop closed 5 years ago. There's another one in a different town that's fairly new. They sell plastic model cars, and have just about any quad copter that's currently available on the market. For model airplanes, I don't see a single kit in that store, but they do have plenty of ARFs.
Old 10-21-2014, 02:01 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by AllModesR/C View Post
The difference is I can get toys at any toy store like Toys R US but you can only get nitro fuel or a servo at a hobby shop. I was specifically talking about the Northbrook IL store. They used to carry nitro and even gasoline powered boats now it seems all their stuff is electric. Maybe it's just this one store.
Nitro-based blends were 'the' fuel of choice for many, many years if you wanted to fly ..... but with the advent of reliable electric motors, ESC's and more powerful batteries (capacity and discharge rate), as well as the ever increasing cost of nitro itself due to it's manufacture ONLY in China, nitro-based fuels and motors have seen a tremendous drop in popularity so it's no surprise that hobby shops don't bother to stock it anymore.

Heck, our club used to take orders from members and make 'a run' to pick up 20 or more cases of nitro fuel for the season.....we haven't done so in many a year, as less than a handful still use/own nitro-fuel motors.
Old 10-21-2014, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Hinckley Bill View Post
Nitro-based blends were 'the' fuel of choice for many, many years if you wanted to fly ..... but with the advent of reliable electric motors, ESC's and more powerful batteries (capacity and discharge rate), as well as the ever increasing cost of nitro itself due to it's manufacture ONLY in China, nitro-based fuels and motors have seen a tremendous drop in popularity so it's no surprise that hobby shops don't bother to stock it anymore.

Heck, our club used to take orders from members and make 'a run' to pick up 20 or more cases of nitro fuel for the season.....we haven't done so in many a year, as less than a handful still use/own nitro-fuel motors.
Yes indeed electric flight is the hot thing right now. I found out this out recently after returning from a 17 year hiatus from the hobby. Me however I will always run internal combustion for the realism and the run time. With a gallon of fuel you could pretty much spend the whole day flying if you wanted to. But even the best batteries last only 30 minutes and you have to mess with chargers and waiting hours for them to charge. Not for me.
Old 10-21-2014, 06:27 AM
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Keep in mind that the "new" Advisory Circular that the FAA is apparently planning to implement will be just that, advisory in nature. Since the the inception of the AC, no AC has been legally binding. Ever. This is true for 91-57, since 1981. Therefore, no AC can possibly "...make radio control flight illegal." Only the legislative branch of our government can do that. Granted, the judicial branch can overrule the legislative branch, but I doubt the Courts will state that the current laws (enacted by congress) give the FAA authority to ban most or all model aviation flights.

I think the new AC will be focused heavily on FPV flights, and not so much on other forms of model aviation. If we are lucky, they will claim that FPV aircraft should not be flown far enough away to prevent the pilot (or spotter) from seeing it with his/her naked eye. Of course, such a stance would be in agreement with the AMA's standards. I, for one, would probably support a new AC that is congruent with the AMA's safety code. Indeed, if everyone had adhered by the safety code before, the FAA never would have raised the issue with their "interpretation." However, when we have people using cameras and quads to count the nose hairs of full scale pilots in flight, I agree that the FAA has to do something. As it is, the people who the FAA is concerned about have never even heard of the AMA, or its safety code.
Old 10-21-2014, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by AllModesR/C View Post
...On another note I realized today that the FAA does indeed have control over model aviation as the AMA emailed me a TFR for my area starting tomorrow. Which prohibits radio controlled model aircraft operations with a 32 nm radius of the determined area.
Was the restriction implemented for reasons of national security (e.g. a visit by The President or other VIP?) If so, these flight restrictions go way beyond the FAA. Planning for these TFRs involves the US Department of Homeland Security, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and/or the United States Secret Service. Violating a TFR can anger any of these agencies. Facing the FAA in Court is far less daunting than facing any of these other agencies.
Old 10-21-2014, 07:30 AM
  #72  
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Don't forget, in two years this group that's in the White House will be gone, thankfully.
Another Admin will be in place and hopefully one that isn't so Regulation Driven. Trust me.. As a former fed regulator much of what happens is driven by the White House.
Old 10-21-2014, 08:36 AM
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as well as the ever increasing cost of nitro itself due to it's manufacture ONLY in China, nitro-based fuels and motors have seen a tremendous drop in popularity so it's no surprise that hobby shops don't bother to stock it anymore.
Nitro is not just made in China. And it's getting cheaper not more expensive. You can mix your on for less thant ten dollars. The low production and shipping rates are the reason for high fuel prices, not the cost of nitro or any other compnent.
Old 10-21-2014, 10:42 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
Nitro is not just made in China. And it's getting cheaper not more expensive. You can mix your on for less thant ten dollars. The low production and shipping rates are the reason for high fuel prices, not the cost of nitro or any other compnent.
I stand corrected.... I had been told that due to regulation no mfg outside of China would bother making nitromethane Glad to know that it's not so but glo fuel based motors are rapidly dwindling as powerplants
Old 10-21-2014, 11:20 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by BobH View Post
Don't forget, in two years this group that's in the White House will be gone, thankfully.
Another Admin will be in place and hopefully one that isn't so Regulation Driven. Trust me.. As a former fed regulator much of what happens is driven by the White House.
The sad truth is that those people (FAA other Regulation minded people) will still be in 'power'.......after all you can't fire a government employee!

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