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FAA working to make radio control flight illegal

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FAA working to make radio control flight illegal

Old 10-21-2014, 11:41 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Hinckley Bill View Post
I stand corrected.... I had been told that due to regulation no mfg outside of China would bother making nitromethane Glad to know that it's not so but glo fuel based motors are rapidly dwindling as powerplants
Angus will make nitro but will not sell pure nitro to any but a chemical plant or lab. They will sell 50% nitro and methanol. They will not sell to drag racers because there is a very slim chance that someone can crash into a drum of nitro and the whole drum explode. Some are not aware it is a monopropellent and as such can burn with no extra oxygen.

The last time I went to the club almost half were glow, maybe 1 or 2 gas, and the rest electric. At another nearby club it is mostly glow, some gas, and one or two electric. Electric is more popular at the former becasue they have a charging station at each table. So it has dwindled but not as much as you think.
Old 10-21-2014, 11:43 AM
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after all you can't fire a government employee!
It can be done. Not as often as it should but it happens.
Old 10-21-2014, 11:43 AM
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While it's true that most of the same people will be there it's not true that the policy makers will be. Providing some one with a brain gets elected.
Old 10-21-2014, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
Angus will make nitro but will not sell pure nitro to any but a chemical plant or lab. They will sell 50% nitro and methanol. They will not sell to drag racers because there is a very slim chance that someone can crash into a drum of nitro and the whole drum explode. Some are not aware it is a monopropellent and as such can burn with no extra oxygen.

The last time I went to the club almost half were glow, maybe 1 or 2 gas, and the rest electric. At another nearby club it is mostly glow, some gas, and one or two electric. Electric is more popular at the former becasue they have a charging station at each table. So it has dwindled but not as much as you think.
I always think of electrics as beginner equipment and nitro/gasoline for more advanced hobbyists. Let's face it, it takes a lot more skill to properly break in, tune, and even start a glow engine than just plug in a battery to make an electric go. Not to mention internal combustion engines make much more power than electric motors.

Last edited by AllModesR/C; 10-22-2014 at 07:55 AM.
Old 10-21-2014, 02:23 PM
  #80  
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AllModesR/C, I think you have a lot to catch up on.

Gas and Nitro engines do not have anywhere near the same amount of power as an electric, to a point. Also, in the larger scale of aircraft, it requires a good deal of knowledge to properly select or recommend a motor, electronic speed control and battery for particular aircraft. Dare I get into how to charge and maintain a battery for said aircraft. Without the correct knowledge for electrics you could hurt yourself, burn your house, car or workshop to the ground.

Please make sure to get up to speed on the hobby, or hire someone for your new shop that is very knowledgeable about electric power, both on the car side and the airplane side.

It is an art form to tune and listen to an engine.

It is knowledge that will make you successful in electric.

Electric and Gas/Nitro require two different skill sets to be successful.

Last edited by TimJ; 10-21-2014 at 02:27 PM.
Old 10-21-2014, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TimJ View Post
AllModesR/C, I think you have a lot to catch up on.

Gas and Nitro engines do not have anywhere near the same amount of power as an electric, to a point. Also, in the larger scale of aircraft, it requires a good deal of knowledge to properly select or recommend a motor, electronic speed control and battery for particular aircraft. Dare I get into how to charge and maintain a battery for said aircraft. Without the correct knowledge for electrics you could hurt yourself, burn your house, car or workshop to the ground.

Please make sure to get up to speed on the hobby, or hire someone for your new shop that is very knowledgeable about electric power, both on the car side and the airplane side.

It is an art form to tune and listen to an engine.

It is knowledge that will make you successful in electric.

Electric and Gas/Nitro require two different skill sets to be successful.
I have to agree that electric planes have their own set of complexities. I recently returned to the hobby after a 20 year hiatus. When I stopped flying in 1994, a handful of electric motors could be found on gliders, and the NiCad batteries had barley enough power to get them to altitude. In the R/C world, brushless motors did not exist, nor did NiMh or lithium batteries. When I got back into the hobby several months ago, I got a glow powered plane, and quickly recalled how to operate it. I recently got an electric plane, but it took me a few hours of research to understand how electric power systems worked.

Its quite easy to mis-match a motor, ESC, and battery. Choose one wrong component, and you could have a major problem on your hands.

There is a significant learning curve with all types of power systems. Trying to use a glow, gas, or electric powerplant without education is a good way to get yourself or someone else harmed, or killed.
Old 10-22-2014, 07:25 AM
  #82  
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Getting back on the topic of the original post... It appears that not only the US wants to ban Drones now. It has now crossed the boarder into Canada and Transport Canada is seeking to greatly limit Drones.

Read here... http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviatio...i-uav-2265.htm
Old 10-22-2014, 07:53 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by TimJ View Post
AllModesR/C, I think you have a lot to catch up on.

Gas and Nitro engines do not have anywhere near the same amount of power as an electric, to a point. Also, in the larger scale of aircraft, it requires a good deal of knowledge to properly select or recommend a motor, electronic speed control and battery for particular aircraft. Dare I get into how to charge and maintain a battery for said aircraft. Without the correct knowledge for electrics you could hurt yourself, burn your house, car or workshop to the ground.

Please make sure to get up to speed on the hobby, or hire someone for your new shop that is very knowledgeable about electric power, both on the car side and the airplane side.

It is an art form to tune and listen to an engine.

It is knowledge that will make you successful in electric.

Electric and Gas/Nitro require two different skill sets to be successful.
You do have a point. I probably could not charge a modern Lipo properly if my life depended on it. Back in the 90's all the fastest models be it cars, boats, or planes were all nitro powered. Gas power was a new novelty. I used to race an electric stadium truck and that thing literally had a 7 or 8 minutes run time if that then it was off to the charger for several hours. That is why I got turned off to electrics.
Old 10-22-2014, 09:46 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Vettster View Post
Getting back on the topic of the original post... It appears that not only the US wants to ban Drones now. It has now crossed the boarder into Canada and Transport Canada is seeking to greatly limit Drones.

Read here... http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviatio...i-uav-2265.htm
I suppose you are unaware of the FAA Modernization Act of 2012 (PUBLIC LAW 112–95—FEB. 14, 2012) which very specifically directs the FAA to integrate drones (specifically UAS) into the National Air Space (NAS). As such, the FAA has been ordered by congress to do exactly what you are saying they aren't doing.

And, based a great deal of FAA activity is beginning to happen, albeit at a glacial pace.
Old 10-22-2014, 09:47 AM
  #85  
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Whoops, duplicate post. Or, you can say that again.
Old 10-22-2014, 05:13 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
I suppose you are unaware of the FAA Modernization Act of 2012 (PUBLIC LAW 112–95—FEB. 14, 2012) which very specifically directs the FAA to integrate drones (specifically UAS) into the National Air Space (NAS). As such, the FAA has been ordered by congress to do exactly what you are saying they aren't doing.

And, based a great deal of FAA activity is beginning to happen, albeit at a glacial pace.
Good point. However, the FAA Modernization Act of 2012 does not say that it has to be easy. I think the fear is that the FAA will ultimately require UAV pilots to obtain training, a pilot's license, and perhaps even a medical certificate in order to pilot a drone, at least for commercial operations. Right now, 56 movie companies have obtained an FAA waiver to use UAVs to film movie footage. The pilots for these UAVs are required to have a private pilot's license, which can cost up several thousand dollars to earn.

So, UAVs almost certainly will not be banned outright. I hope that there will be few, if any, additional restrictions on modelers who want to operate these model aircraft for non-commercial purposes.
Old 10-22-2014, 06:18 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by N410DC View Post
Good point. However, the FAA Modernization Act of 2012 does not say that it has to be easy. I think the fear is that the FAA will ultimately require UAV pilots to obtain training, a pilot's license, and perhaps even a medical certificate in order to pilot a drone, at least for commercial operations. Right now, 56 movie companies have obtained an FAA waiver to use UAVs to film movie footage. The pilots for these UAVs are required to have a private pilot's license, which can cost up several thousand dollars to earn.

So, UAVs almost certainly will not be banned outright. I hope that there will be few, if any, additional restrictions on modelers who want to operate these model aircraft for non-commercial purposes.
There is no intent to ban UAS operations. The intent is to integrate them safely into the NAS. Wavers are being granted only to those who have carefully planed and documented their plans to use them safely. Recreational model aviation will continue under the same restrictions, this time formally, as they have been under AC 91-57.
Old 10-23-2014, 06:51 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by N410DC View Post
Good point. However, the FAA Modernization Act of 2012 does not say that it has to be easy. I think the fear is that the FAA will ultimately require UAV pilots to obtain training, a pilot's license, and perhaps even a medical certificate in order to pilot a drone, at least for commercial operations. Right now, 56 movie companies have obtained an FAA waiver to use UAVs to film movie footage. The pilots for these UAVs are required to have a private pilot's license, which can cost up several thousand dollars to earn.

So, UAVs almost certainly will not be banned outright. I hope that there will be few, if any, additional restrictions on modelers who want to operate these model aircraft for non-commercial purposes.
The pilots for these UAVs are required to have a private pilot's license,
I thought the whole problem with developing or flying for Hire in the NAS was because it was against the FAR's to receive compensation with out a Commercial Pilots Certificate Not a private license.
Old 10-23-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by HoundDog View Post
The pilots for these UAVs are required to have a private pilot's license,
I thought the whole problem with developing or flying for Hire in the NAS was because it was against the FAR's to receive compensation with out a Commercial Pilots Certificate Not a private license.
Actually, UAS regulations are still on the drawing board. I don't see how you can say anything about what the FAA will say. At the present moment, UAS operations are only being evaluated on a case by case basis. We don't know how many applications have been denied, nor do we know how many have applied for a waiver.

There is a"road map" that the FAA published, perhaps you should read it.

[ATTACH]2041856[/IMG]
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
UAS_Roadmap_2013.pdf (1.76 MB, 41 views)
Old 10-23-2014, 10:27 AM
  #90  
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The AMA has just added "I TOLD YOU SO..!!!" patches to their inventory of items that the "Anti Drone" membership can purchase from the latest catalog
Old 10-23-2014, 01:23 PM
  #91  
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The pilots for these UAVs are required to have a private pilot's license,
I thought the whole problem with developing or flying for Hire in the NAS was because it was against the FAR's to receive compensation with out a Commercial Pilots Certificate Not a private license.


Originally Posted by JohnShe View Post
Actually, UAS regulations are still on the drawing board. I don't see how you can say anything about what the FAA will say. At the present moment, UAS operations are only being evaluated on a case by case basis. We don't know how many applications have been denied, nor do we know how many have applied for a waiver.

There is a"road map" that the FAA published, perhaps you should read it.

[ATTACH]2041856[/IMG]

I have read it. Yes I know they haven't made any changes to the FAR's or any New FAR's.
What I ment was the FAA's Interpretation of #336 Regarding "Compensation or hire". PERIOD

Old 10-23-2014, 05:15 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog View Post
The pilots for these UAVs are required to have a private pilot's license,
I thought the whole problem with developing or flying for Hire in the NAS was because it was against the FAR's to receive compensation with out a Commercial Pilots Certificate Not a private license.



I have read it. Yes I know they haven't made any changes to the FAR's or any New FAR's.
What I ment was the FAA's Interpretation of #336 Regarding "Compensation or hire". PERIOD

Well, if you had fully read and understood the Interpretation of section 336, then you would know that they are only defining what is and what isn't model aviation. And, very specifically how they intend to deal with model aviation. There is nothing in section 336 or the interpretation that speaks of licensing for model aviation. If you really understood the road map, then you would know that the whole training, certification (skill and medical) for UAS is way up in the air.
Old 10-25-2014, 04:35 PM
  #93  
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Hey AGM-28 !, cooper just looked at #45 and #88 he has a complete understanding of whats going on.
Old 10-26-2014, 12:07 AM
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It appears that everything is going to electric and FPV (First Person View). It is only a matter of time before anything without a video down link and GPS gets pressed into obsolescence. The selection of glow engines and kits like people used to see at local flying fields, continues to shrink. I will say it again: The general public can care less about watching a model plane fly, especially if it's powered by a nearly silent (except for the prop) electric motor. People want to see what things look like from their drone's vantage point, and a traditional RC scale model plane just doesn't offer this. This is why the DJI Phantom and similar products are so popular. Once the FAA puts its foot down and starts regulating commercial drones, the evolutionary progress in model aviation will be stymied, and people will exit the hobby or simply not get involved, due to lack of interest. That will be the death of model aviation as we know it.
Old 10-26-2014, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NorfolkSouthern View Post
It appears that everything is going to electric and FPV (First Person View). It is only a matter of time before anything without a video down link and GPS gets pressed into obsolescence. The selection of glow engines and kits like people used to see at local flying fields, continues to shrink. I will say it again: The general public can care less about watching a model plane fly, especially if it's powered by a nearly silent (except for the prop) electric motor. People want to see what things look like from their drone's vantage point, and a traditional RC scale model plane just doesn't offer this. This is why the DJI Phantom and similar products are so popular. Once the FAA puts its foot down and starts regulating commercial drones, the evolutionary progress in model aviation will be stymied, and people will exit the hobby or simply not get involved, due to lack of interest. That will be the death of model aviation as we know it.
Norfolk S., you are probably correct, but right now real model airplanes, especially War Birds are alive and well. My club, Jetero RC Club, hosted another big Warbird Fly-In just this FR-Sat 10-24-25, and it was fantastic. 65 registered pilots, and many more RCer workers were on the field. War Birds were keeping th limit in the air. (Limit 6 models at any time) War Birds are the thing right now.
Then it is time that modelers get off their butts and start sending letters to their Congressmen asking for some assistance reference the FAA trying to pull this very stimulating sport, so good for youth and adulT away from public domain. Write guys, copy AMA, but certified mail to the Congress person. "GIT' ER DONE!
Then be sure you vote for Ol Hoss for AMA Executive Vice President. Mail the ballot by Nov. 11 at latest. Then WE will "Git 'er Done."
Old 10-26-2014, 11:55 AM
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War birds have always been popular, and I think much of that stems from the days of control-line flight. When I think if a Mustang or P-40 Warhawk, I always think "modal airplane", because that's what I saw of these from the beginning. I remember my uncle starting them in the house when he would come and visit, and I would do the same with mine. The C/L models were always fun to watch at a local baseball diamond; the sounds and smells were very hard to resist back in the day. I never really had much thought or interest in full-scale unless it was a civilian aircraft I could ride in. Granted, model aviation is a sport in and of its self. It can be very similar to target shooting and sporting clays. But again, people are wanting their gadgets and gizmos. I'll be among the first to admit, I would like a DJI phantom or similar quad copter with a video downlink myself. They're small, compact, very portable, and quite handy with no need for a runway or large field.

Last edited by NorfolkSouthern; 10-26-2014 at 11:58 AM.
Old 10-26-2014, 05:11 PM
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When little jimmy gets a MQ-9 or a MQ-8B 1/5 scale model and has permission to fly on Mr. Smiths property,and someone see's it as he flys around,from a distance you'd think one thing. Honey!,CALL THE COPS!!!! But little jimmy screams from the back of the black gov. suv.,I got a deal on it in this neat magazine,plus free shippin!
Old 10-26-2014, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Norfolk S., you are probably correct, but right now real model airplanes, especially War Birds are alive and well. My club, Jetero RC Club, hosted another big Warbird Fly-In just this FR-Sat 10-24-25, and it was fantastic. 65 registered pilots, and many more RCer workers were on the field. War Birds were keeping th limit in the air. (Limit 6 models at any time) War Birds are the thing right now.
Sounds like a great War Bird Fly-in. Copy this and past it into the search on U Tube.
war birds and classics over the mid west.122 Pilots and 220 Planes. The planes are parked 2 and 3 deep for a full Quarter Mile (1320 Foot) length of the runway,
Or try this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvPeIPCTvQY

Last edited by HoundDog; 10-26-2014 at 06:05 PM. Reason: Added Pilots an panes
Old 10-26-2014, 07:08 PM
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OK Hound Dog, you are well ahead of us. What a beautiful site you have. Ours is not bad, and Jetero owns it all 50 acres.
You have a great place and a lot of flyers. GREAT!
Old 10-30-2014, 01:17 PM
  #100  
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I don't see 120 aircraft in that video.

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