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Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....

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Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....

Old 03-31-2015, 07:42 AM
  #26  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by DISCUS54 View Post
No need to sound alarmed....You guys aren't taking into account the millions of illegal aliens here on executive orders that will probably join. Just a small percentage would offset the 5,000 of so that will probably quit because of the price increase. We might even see a membership numbers increase to the point that there could be a reduction in dues. Hahaha.
Funny, right thar! AMA is much like the government...always looking for ways to justify their actions and convince us how we need them....Yes...there really are people that feel we need AMA.
Old 03-31-2015, 08:05 AM
  #27  
cessnaflyer54
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I don't see anybody else going up against the FAA so we can fly!
Old 03-31-2015, 08:20 AM
  #28  
PLANE JIM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
Thats not true at all, if they wanted to be done with us there wouldn't be any CBO stuff in the NPRM
I disagree with you-thanks
Old 03-31-2015, 08:57 AM
  #29  
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I wonder how many of us would discontinue our cable tv or trash service just because it went up a few bucks. Would a $10-20 increase really keep you from flying? If SS income is all you have then you have bigger concerns than a dues increase. On the other hand it seems that most of the $ being spent by the AMA is in defense of sUAV and it's time those who fly and manufacture them pony up. Perhaps increase the Ad prices for those wanting to advertise multi rotor and FPV systems. We really had no problems with the FAA until this portion of the hobby came along. I'm not against them, but it's time they have their own organization protecting them.
Old 03-31-2015, 11:26 AM
  #30  
Luchnia
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Originally Posted by raptureboy View Post
I wonder how many of us would discontinue our cable tv or trash service just because it went up a few bucks. Would a $10-20 increase really keep you from flying? If SS income is all you have then you have bigger concerns than a dues increase. On the other hand it seems that most of the $ being spent by the AMA is in defense of sUAV and it's time those who fly and manufacture them pony up. Perhaps increase the Ad prices for those wanting to advertise multi rotor and FPV systems. We really had no problems with the FAA until this portion of the hobby came along. I'm not against them, but it's time they have their own organization protecting them.
I bet for some of these guys, it is all about the principle.
Old 03-31-2015, 11:43 AM
  #31  
warbird_1
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Originally Posted by mr_matt View Post
From the January EC meeting minutes:


Dues: In July 2014 Council talked about a dues increase and why it was needed. In 1997 dues were $48; since then there has been one dues increase (2003). The Academy has spent over one million dollars just on government relations; this is expected to continue and the need for resources is huge.

Sessions explained how the government measures inflation. Using the inflation adjustments from 1997, this would put our dues at $70.92; if we adjusted from 2003, the dues would be $74.44. (This goes through 2014, a dues increase would not take effect until 2016.) It was recommended that dues be increased to $75; it has been 13 years since dues were reviewed. Sessions believes this subject should be put on a cycle and reviewed every few years. In 2003 membership numbers were about 172,000; we are 175,000 now. When the dues change was made in 2003 AMA lost 5,000 members. Today, AMA is viewed as an advocate for the modeler, much more along the lines of government relations and education; the value statement AMA has is much stronger.

G. Fitch stated from a marketing perspective we can provide the reasoning and justification to prepare our members for this ahead of time. He brought up the need for a dues increase during a meeting at the NEAT Fair. He told members that AMA cannot keep spending millions of dollars protecting model aviation from the federal government, and hundreds of thousands of dollars developing a PR campaign without some additional source of revenue; an adjustment is logical and is needed.

M. Radcliff stated that if we do it now it will give us time to market it with all the reasons why an increase is needed


1 million spent trying to influence the government.

BTW we sent at least one person to the CES show in Las Vegas.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EETm...e_gdata_player
I personally find this thread infamitory .. As far as i can see it does nothing but anger people . Dues increase is not rocket science . What it comes down to is , if you want to fly at AMA chartered fields and AMA events then you have to accept a dues increase. You can't blame anyone personally ,it's going to happen. We don't think twice about going to a swap meet or hobby shop and dropping 100.00 ,why should we get all uptight about a few dollars increase in dues. I feel MUCH better knowing that if i injure someone or damage someone's property ,that i'm covered. You can't drive a vehicle on the road without insurance ,so why should we be allowed to fly " around other people" with out it? I see how hard Gray and Bob work to maintain or right to fly. They both spend a lot of money out of their own pockets and sacrifice a lot of time on the road away from their families. Most all of you don't see that, i do. I know for a fact that both Gray and Bob really care about a modelers finances and don't want to see an increase but it's a reality of life. People don't go march on washington because thier taxs go up even though it ticks them off ,so why start a thread that doesn't solve but incites hard feelings? that's my two cents. Here's a solution ... try becoming a CD and manage an event promoting the hobby and you'll get half dues. I guarantee you'll be happy just to pay your dues :-)
Old 03-31-2015, 11:56 AM
  #32  
Waco
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When I first started flying as a teen I flew out of pastures and strip mines because I could not afford the club dues and AMA dues, looks like I am headed in that direction again or stop flying.
Old 03-31-2015, 12:34 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by warbird_1 View Post
I personally find this thread infamitory .. As far as i can see it does nothing but anger people . Dues increase is not rocket science . What it comes down to is , if you want to fly at AMA chartered fields and AMA events then you have to accept a dues increase. You can't blame anyone personally ,it's going to happen. We don't think twice about going to a swap meet or hobby shop and dropping 100.00 ,why should we get all uptight about a few dollars increase in dues. I feel MUCH better knowing that if i injure someone or damage someone's property ,that i'm covered. You can't drive a vehicle on the road without insurance ,so why should we be allowed to fly " around other people" with out it? I see how hard Gray and Bob work to maintain or right to fly. They both spend a lot of money out of their own pockets and sacrifice a lot of time on the road away from their families. Most all of you don't see that, i do. I know for a fact that both Gray and Bob really care about a modelers finances and don't want to see an increase but it's a reality of life. People don't go march on washington because thier taxs go up even though it ticks them off ,so why start a thread that doesn't solve but incites hard feelings? that's my two cents. Here's a solution ... try becoming a CD and manage an event promoting the hobby and you'll get half dues. I guarantee you'll be happy just to pay your dues :-)
Oh boy time to pop some popcorn and sit back and watch the fireworks. 💥
Old 03-31-2015, 12:46 PM
  #34  
warbird_1
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
Oh boy time to pop some popcorn and sit back and watch the fireworks. 
Got any Butter?
Old 03-31-2015, 01:16 PM
  #35  
mikey1964
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Haven't had ama in 12 years and still fly but live out in the country. Do miss the club flying field and my friends. A lot more fun if you have someone to fly with! Flying alone is boring. Lol
Old 03-31-2015, 01:29 PM
  #36  
Chris P. Bacon
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I would welcome a dues increase. Our AMA dues are way to cheap, especially considering the insurance coverage we receive. Club charter fees should also increase as well.
Old 03-31-2015, 01:37 PM
  #37  
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get rid of the[ama] magazine same pol thing everymonth> all about the people who have money who get there planes built and someone flys them and they get the credit for it all
Old 03-31-2015, 02:41 PM
  #38  
PLANE JIM
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Cost saving measures-
Magazine stoppped
Muncie sold
Old 03-31-2015, 02:52 PM
  #39  
tp777fo
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Come on guys, if not for the AMA there would be no more model airplane flying. The initial FAA attempt to govern UAS ops initially killed model aircraft. If not for the AMA we would be done....period. AMA went to Congress and got the FAA Reauthorization Bill to include a hands off from models. If you don't want to be an AMA member then don't...just don't be surprised when the FAA fines you for flying.
Old 03-31-2015, 03:01 PM
  #40  
FlyWheel
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Maybe they should have just let the FAA ban drones.
Old 03-31-2015, 03:26 PM
  #41  
049flyer
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Originally Posted by PLANE JIM View Post
Cost saving measures-
Magazine stoppped
Muncie sold
I wonder how many AMA staff members would be needed without the magazine and a flying field 95% of us will never see?

Everyone here is looking at this from an RC perspective and with an RC modeling budget.

How many of the control line, free flight, rubber power guys will consider the cost too high for the benefit received and refuse to renew? We may lose more members than we think!

It's entirely possible that the AMA will net no additional revenue after implementing the increase, due to fewer members. WHAT THEN? Death spiral?

Last edited by 049flyer; 03-31-2015 at 03:44 PM.
Old 03-31-2015, 05:32 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
Since the rationale of a dues increase includes an adjustment due to inflationary reasons...shouldn't the liability coverage also be adjusted accordingly??? When was the last time that was increased???and isn't that the greatest reason most people think we need AMA???

With that thought in mind, maybe they should just raise the dues to $150 per year... Maybe $250 would be even better...
Cheapskate They should demand at least $500 for all the good they do unto us that we're too stupid to appreciate, because we didn't even know we wanted it.
Old 03-31-2015, 05:40 PM
  #43  
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I find it interesting the amount of work the AMA has put into the deal with Drones and the cost... Personally I really think they have done too much without a lot of results. Yes they have added their "rules" into the limelight and the FAA has adapted some of the terminology, however, when I was watching CSPAN on the coverage of the Senate Subcommittee hearings on commercial use of Drones, the FAA rep didn't even know that the name of the group was Academy of Model Aeronautics and kept referring to it as American Modelers Association. You would think that as close as the AMA has worked with the FAA they would know their name. Also I saw no AMA representatives there. The Rules that the AMA has are the Rules they are trying to pattern the laws after for control of the Commercial Drones Why were they not there? There were also questions about people not being members of AMA not controlling Drones properly and no one could answer the questions. It was a real waste of time for a lot of the Senate committee members and the others there. Where is all that money spent and exactly what is the money buying? Just a few questions related to the need to raise the membership.
The other thing I sound interesting is that AMA is NOT an insurance company. They simply cover some of the expenses that YOUR home owners insurance does not cover. It is not a stand alone insurance policy the way so many play it up to be.

Last edited by rich6170; 03-31-2015 at 05:46 PM.
Old 03-31-2015, 07:38 PM
  #44  
GSXR1000
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I don't feel sorry for anyone who can't afford the AMA nominal yearly dues at the current rate or supposed upcoming increase....This is just like any other hobby or sport..... to put a kid through one season of soccer cost more than AMA yearly dues, one round of golf with green fees cost more than AMA yearly dues, when I go ride my dirt bike 2 trips to the MX park cost as much as the AMA yearly fee. Just like joining any other club or organization that you want to be a part of or need to be a part of, they all have cost associated with them... RC hobbies are expensive to begin with, that's the price of being in it. RC car guys have to pay daily or weekly fees to use the local RC track, they pay track/race fees in a month what is cost for AMA yearly dues, that's not even including their ROAR yearly membership fees to....

Even if I had acres of private land 5 miles away from the nearest Airport, I would still be a member of the AMA as I like being able to fly at AMA club sites and with other people. I am also a member of the USGA, NRA and a few others clubs or organization, just like the AMA; I chose to join these clubs. You don't have to join the AMA, USGA, NRA etc... but IMO the benefits that these clubs offer for their yearly membership fees are worth the cost...

What I tell my co workers who complain about paying monthly or yearly fees for what ever, I tell them if you don't go out to for lunch all the time, don't buy a coke a day from the vending machine; the money you spend going out to eat for lunch and buying cokes daily would be between 30-60 dollars monthly; that money you don't spend on going out, drinking energy drinks etc... would be enough to pay for what they are complaining about paying. If you are going to a fast food restaurant, on average you are spending $5 on average, go 2 l less times that's $10 saved...

It's all about prioritizing your spending, people complain about paying $60-80 for yearly club dues, I'm pretty sure that same person has spent that much on something else that wasn't a necessity/need, but a want.

This is just my .2 worth of opinion....

Last edited by GSXR1000; 03-31-2015 at 07:42 PM.
Old 03-31-2015, 07:39 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
What I would recommend is a hike in the full page add rates in MA. The vendors and manufactures need to kick in and get off the free ride they have for lobbying by the AMA. Leave the small add prices alone to help the mom and pop operations, but Hobbyco, Tower, HobbyKing, and others can pony up. It's not as if there are alternatives for them to advertise in.
Yes, that's the ticket - Let's manipulate the market instead of letting supply/demand drive it. Yeh, that's the ticket...

Kurt
Old 03-31-2015, 09:43 PM
  #46  
DISCUS54
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I support the AMA. That doesn't mean I agree with Its stance on every issue. I have noticed a lot of inflation in the goods and services that I have used over the past 5 years, so it is not a surprise that the dues are increasing now. The AMA does a lot of good. It brings modelers together, provides flyers with insurance, and is our largest and most vocal National advocacy group. The hobby is very broad, and the AMA supports areas that I don't currently participate in, however; I have found that my tastes change occasionally and I am glad that they are involved to protect all areas. If the dues increase to $75 then I would still support the AMA. I like the return on my investment...I just wish my taxes were spent half as efficiently.
Old 04-01-2015, 05:49 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by bradpaul View Post
What I would recommend is a hike in the full page add rates in MA. The vendors and manufactures need to kick in and get off the free ride they have for lobbying by the AMA. Leave the small add prices alone to help the mom and pop operations, but Hobbyco, Tower, HobbyKing, and others can pony up. It's not as if there are alternatives for them to advertise in.

What worries me is with all the uncertainty on rules and regulations is how the insurance company underwriter will evaluate the future risk. I believe the insurance premium is a very large part of the AMA budget.
I agree with this 100% while I understand they need the income and why but why not hit the ones who are selling and causing the whole spending problem in the 1st place. MA has become nothing more than a "drone" mag. Don't get me wrong I have no problem with the "drone" craze but no amount of money will fix the problem. We have spent a nice chunk of change on this problem with nothing firm to show for it.

Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 04-01-2015 at 05:52 AM.
Old 04-01-2015, 08:00 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by DISCUS54 View Post
I support the AMA. That doesn't mean I agree with Its stance on every issue. I have noticed a lot of inflation in the goods and services that I have used over the past 5 years, so it is not a surprise that the dues are increasing now. The AMA does a lot of good. It brings modelers together, provides flyers with insurance, and is our largest and most vocal National advocacy group. The hobby is very broad, and the AMA supports areas that I don't currently participate in, however; I have found that my tastes change occasionally and I am glad that they are involved to protect all areas. If the dues increase to $75 then I would still support the AMA. I like the return on my investment...I just wish my taxes were spent half as efficiently.
+1
Old 04-01-2015, 09:27 AM
  #49  
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WACO iam 83 i got about the same find a place in the desert to fly a lot of people out there where i go there are at least 20 on fri. sat. sun.
Old 04-01-2015, 11:37 AM
  #50  
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I don't have any problem with the AMA as organizations go; and I have no problem with the dues increase.

Unfortunately, there will never be much agreement among the RC community relative to the AMA value proposition. That has been going on forever. Part of it is the AMA's fault for not getting their value across to members effectively and part of it is the way modelers stiffarm anything coming from the AMA. It is one of those things you have to submit yourself to for the greater good. Don't believe me? Have a AMA for Heli guys, one for FPV and drone guys, one for classic guys and one for giants etc. and none of them will have enough money to do anything. My point is its an RC Community with little bits and pieces in there for everyone and by way of example, its kind of shortsighted to say the drone guys started all this trouble so let them pay for it or create their own organization.

While frequently cited, the insurance argument is weak. For a few extra bucks you can have an umbrella policy wrapped around your homeowners and it covers you way more than the AMA insurance. Further, your personal umbrella woud cover you in lots of areas having nothing to do with RC. For me...the insurance argument is weak.

In terms of what they spend their money on...you can look at the financials which are published annually in the magazine if I'm not mistaken. In the alternative, get a sign-in on www.guidestar.com and you can look up any not for profits financials in the country! Including tax return filings (Form 990) and top 5 or so highest paid emloyees in the organization. No need to guess what this stuff is...its readily available. The information is there for ANY charitable organization. It's totally transparent.

Anyone know if there has been any discussion of making membership to the AMA mandatory to make flying comply with the FAA ruling (not just flying at a sanctioned field, required to fly period)? I know some can go crazy with that comment, but, there is strength in numbers. Using easy numbers, if the membership numbers doubled the AMA could cut dues in half and generate the same revenue.

And finally, say what you will about not neededing/wanting the AMA...but if somebody tapped you on the shoulder some day and told you couldn't fly (for some crazy reason) you'd be looking for advocacy pretty quickly and you'd happily pay for it if it meant you could fly again.

I think what's most important is to stick together and go along with these things because they are mostly correct; don't fuss about the exceptions or a particular aspect that may not apply to you.

Just my opinion, of course.

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