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Insurance - AMA dues - Are we paying our fair share

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Insurance - AMA dues - Are we paying our fair share

Old 05-27-2015, 04:24 PM
  #51  
PLANE JIM
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quadcopters 3d has to be the most dangerous-they need to be banned and the pilots stand in the corner!
Old 05-27-2015, 04:34 PM
  #52  
oneaew@msn.com
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what a bunch of stupid people talking about ama insurance on rc does anyone know when the ama started?? i can always go to the desert to fly>> no worry there>> you all sound like a bunch of kids to me
Old 05-27-2015, 05:22 PM
  #53  
blainer48
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Well, then go out to the desert and fly and leave all of us "stupid" people to the wonderful flying fields and great venues around the country. Boy, you sure showed us. Also, it started in 1935 as the American Academy of Model Aeronautics.

Jason
Old 05-27-2015, 06:48 PM
  #54  
ira d
 
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Originally Posted by FLAPHappy View Post
I don't like math either. Now the problem is, and the current problem is these new Drones that are flying around, over people, and in glide paths of full scale aircraft. Did you ever hear of a R/C War plane getting involved with full scale aircraft. I don't think so. At least I have not heard of even a sport plane or 3D plane involved either???????
These types of people ( Drone Flyers) are creating a major problems with the FAA and the AMA. Yes ,Drone flyers should pay more because they are creating more regulation with their carelessness.
I doubt that many of the drone or quadcopter guys that are causing problems are AMA members. Unless someone can show they are AMA members it would not be fair for them to pay more.
Old 05-27-2015, 07:04 PM
  #55  
p3arljam
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Not to throw a monkey wrench into this but most people dont just fly one type of plane. I have 80" warbirds 55" sport planes and 40" foamies it will be impossible to set a certain amount for every individual.
Old 05-27-2015, 07:10 PM
  #56  
ira d
 
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Originally Posted by p3arljam View Post
Not to throw a monkey wrench into this but most people dont just fly one type of plane. I have 80" warbirds 55" sport planes and 40" foamies it will be impossible to set a certain amount for every individual.
The way it work would be you pay based on the most expensive class of model fly, However I don't think it would be a good idea to go to a tiered rate.
Old 05-27-2015, 09:21 PM
  #57  
HORNET FLYER
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A 5lb wood trainer can kill you just as dead as a 40lb warbird.....but the trainers are much larger in numbers out there....thus more risk against trainers than warbirds.

ive seen this topic many times but insert diff segment of hobby.....jets,choppers,quickie 500s etc.

but I have seen a disturbing amount of brownouts due to orange/lemon rx etc from guys thinking they are the same quality as others
Old 05-28-2015, 02:23 AM
  #58  
sensei
 
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I say just pay our dues, shut up and fly...

Bob
Old 05-28-2015, 03:00 AM
  #59  
porcia83
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Originally Posted by PLANE JIM View Post
quadcopters 3d has to be the most dangerous-they need to be banned and the pilots stand in the corner!
Originally Posted by oneaew@msn.com View Post
what a bunch of stupid people talking about ama insurance on rc does anyone know when the ama started?? i can always go to the desert to fly>> no worry there>> you all sound like a bunch of kids to me
Hard to figure out which one is older here, and who is trying harder to troll this thread.

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Old 05-28-2015, 05:08 AM
  #60  
blhollo2
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(shake my head)......another idiotic thread just for people to troll...threads like this are pointless
Old 05-28-2015, 05:14 AM
  #61  
porcia83
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Don't know that it's an idiotic thread, or pointless. It was enough for you to comment in after all.... nothing wrong with the OP's question or starting a discussion about a tiered pricing system. Most of the responses have been on point, absent the calls for people being banned or idiots for talking about the issue.
Old 05-28-2015, 05:27 AM
  #62  
blhollo2
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Don't know that it's an idiotic thread, or pointless. It was enough for you to comment in after all.... nothing wrong with the OP's question or starting a discussion about a tiered pricing system. Most of the responses have been on point, absent the calls for people being banned or idiots for talking about the issue.

Threads like this have no basis other than for people to complain. They are all the same. They start out with good intentions good points, then people attack other people, then others troll them, then the threads go down hill..Porcia83 just look at your response you just posted: Originally Posted by PLANE JIM quadcopters 3d has to be the most dangerous-they need to be banned and the pilots stand in the corner!

Originally Posted by oneaew@msn.com
what a bunch of stupid people talking about ama insurance on rc does anyone know when the ama started?? i can always go to the desert to fly>> no worry there>> you all sound like a bunch of kids to me



Hard to figure out which one is older here, and who is trying harder to troll this thread.





YOUR ADDING TO THE DRAMA with comments like that and a pic from grumpy old men..Come on guy
Old 05-28-2015, 05:50 AM
  #63  
porcia83
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I never excluded my comments from scrutiny, and I thought the pic added some levity.

But I also didn't call the thread idiotic and pointless, and then post in it, nor mention DRAMA have have to cap and bold it. Good stuff though.
Old 05-28-2015, 06:45 AM
  #64  
Bigg D
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It is this new generation of check writers who have destroyed this great hobby. They think they know everything but know NOTHING !
Old 05-28-2015, 08:13 AM
  #65  
franklin_m
 
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Just my two cents, but to me the obvious break points would be anything that requires special approval from AMA. AMA Large Model Airplane program (AMA Document 520-A), helicopters operated under the provisions of AMA Document #555 (metal blades),officially designated AMA Air Show Teams (AST) operating the special devices (AMA Document #718), turbine aircraft (AMA Document #510-A).

The premise for asking these groups to pay more is a simple one, if they're no more risk than other aircraft, why the need for special approval to fly/operate any of these?
Old 05-28-2015, 08:37 AM
  #66  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Just my two cents, but to me the obvious break points would be anything that requires special approval from AMA. AMA Large Model Airplane program (AMA Document 520-A), helicopters operated under the provisions of AMA Document #555 (metal blades),officially designated AMA Air Show Teams (AST) operating the special devices (AMA Document #718), turbine aircraft (AMA Document #510-A).

The premise for asking these groups to pay more is a simple one, if they're no more risk than other aircraft, why the need for special approval to fly/operate any of these?
Actually a really good point but all of this could just be as simple as having each member pick his level of coverage a la carte. I know, I know, this concept is no longer popular in our new socialist world of late but it once would have been the right answer in the celebration of American individualism and freedom of choice.
Old 05-28-2015, 10:07 AM
  #67  
bradpaul
 
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The actual "fairness" issue with the AMA insurance is that it is secondary insurance, so the vast majority of the AMA membership that have homeowners insurance or renters insurance are subsidzing the non insured minority.
Old 05-28-2015, 11:14 AM
  #68  
ira d
 
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Just my two cents, but to me the obvious break points would be anything that requires special approval from AMA. AMA Large Model Airplane program (AMA Document 520-A), helicopters operated under the provisions of AMA Document #555 (metal blades),officially designated AMA Air Show Teams (AST) operating the special devices (AMA Document #718), turbine aircraft (AMA Document #510-A).

The premise for asking these groups to pay more is a simple one, if they're no more risk than other aircraft, why the need for special approval to fly/operate any of these?
I don't think the groups you mention or more of a risk but if anything less of a risk, I think the idea behind the special approval is a matter of safety to insure the operators of
these models have the expertise needed because there are some differences that need to be dealt with.
Old 05-28-2015, 12:39 PM
  #69  
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Any one who has flown for a long time and goes to different fields and venues knows it is not the plane that is the danger, it is the pilot. Its usually the guy with the POS little plane you have to watch out for not the guy with the $4000 war bird who spent countless hours building it. Like guns ( Guns Don't Kill People People Kill People )
Old 05-28-2015, 12:48 PM
  #70  
franklin_m
 
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Originally Posted by Timeflys View Post
Any one who has flown for a long time and goes to different fields and venues knows it is not the plane that is the danger, it is the pilot. Its usually the guy with the POS little plane you have to watch out for not the guy with the $4000 war bird who spent countless hours building it. Like guns ( Guns Don't Kill People People Kill People )
I'd buy that were it not for any number of videos showing out of control mult-thousand dollar turbines crashing into pilots and causing second degree burns from spraying fuel, or a 100lb B-29 barrelling toward a crowd with people diving out of the way to protect themselves, etc. If AMA thinks they need to grant special permission for either >55lb or turbine power, they're not doing it because they think it'sti safer. If they're so safe, then why do you need waivers, special inspections, approved pilot lists, etc.? That's why I think those groups should pay a higher rate. Don't make me subsidize it.
Old 05-28-2015, 01:48 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I'd buy that were it not for any number of videos showing out of control mult-thousand dollar turbines crashing into pilots and causing second degree burns from spraying fuel, or a 100lb B-29 barrelling toward a crowd with people diving out of the way to protect themselves, etc. If AMA thinks they need to grant special permission for either >55lb or turbine power, they're not doing it because they think it'sti safer. If they're so safe, then why do you need waivers, special inspections, approved pilot lists, etc.? That's why I think those groups should pay a higher rate. Don't make me subsidize it.
Maybe you should ask the AMA if they have data that shows the groups you are concerned with do indeed have more claims.
Old 05-28-2015, 02:01 PM
  #72  
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Wait! Shouldn't we just be wildly speculating and throwing rocks at the windows of modelers we don' like?!!
Old 05-28-2015, 02:02 PM
  #73  
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The things you all whine about that's what's wrong with the world. If 58 bucks a year breaks you get off your ass and work. I probably spend 1000 a year giving planes to kids trying to get started in our hobby and helping out any where I can to promote our hobby. And last people talking about drones do you think everyone that has one even knows what the ama is ? Not hardly!!!
Old 05-28-2015, 02:33 PM
  #74  
FLAPHappy
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Just my two cents, but to me the obvious break points would be anything that requires special approval from AMA. AMA Large Model Airplane program (AMA Document 520-A), helicopters operated under the provisions of AMA Document #555 (metal blades),officially designated AMA Air Show Teams (AST) operating the special devices (AMA Document #718), turbine aircraft (AMA Document #510-A).

The premise for asking these groups to pay more is a simple one, if they're no more risk than other aircraft, why the need for special approval to fly/operate any of these?
I kind of disagree with this. Most of these near misses from Drone Aircraft have been on the news and reported a lot of the time. I don't know if these guys flying these quads are AMA Members of not, more likely not.
I am going to put up a suggestion, and would like to hear about what you think of it.
Quad copters be flown by a qualified Pilot , meaning he has taken a test and shows proficiency in flying this model. Just like people that have to take a Turbine written test and skill test, signed off by a skilled Pilot in that arena. Why not make these people take a written test, and show the skills necessary to fly these things. That would make them AMA members, or not, and without insurance. covered by insurance if they are AMA Members, pay their fees for these tests just like the Turbine Waiver.
This could be done, and before any hobby shop, online or not, buy one of these Quad copters pass the tests required? Show written proof they can operate it.
This would maybe eliminate some guy going to the LHS and buying one for his kid or himself for that matter without knowing the rules of flight safety.
Just a question, I know I will get a lot of Flack, but it is only a suggestion.

There is more risk in flying these Quads, especially anywhere near an active airport. That's why they have been reported on the News from Airline Pilots.

Last edited by FLAPHappy; 05-28-2015 at 02:38 PM.
Old 05-28-2015, 04:02 PM
  #75  
franklin_m
 
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Originally Posted by FLAPHappy View Post
Just like people that have to take a Turbine written test and skill test, signed off by a skilled Pilot in that arena
Actually, there is no written test required by AMA as evidenced by the Turbine Waiver Application appended below (http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-d.pdf). Furthermore, the sum total of the required knowledge area is hardly comprehensive, three items on fire fighting (items 1a through 1c) and a fourth item on turbine start and shutdown procedures. Flight skills tasks are generally ok I suppose, except that most military tactical aircraft (subject of most turbine scale models) don't fly square patterns...but that's relatively minor.


As for the idea of having quad pilots demonstrate proficiency at point of purchase, I don't see hobby shops being the enforcer. They have all the incentive in the world to pencil whip the paperwork. It works for firearms only because there's an external agency auditing the books and stiff penalties for not complying. I don't see the manpower being devoted to the auditing necessary to make this successful. Just my opinion though. Others may disagree.


----------------Text of AMA turbine waiver request--------------------
Objective:
The purpose of the flight test for the turbine applicant to demonstrate their skills, knowledge, and understanding of how to safely operate and fly a turbine model aircraft.

Key Elements:
The following elements are to be demonstrated through action along with verbal discussion of the element were appropriate.

1. Demonstration of proper turbine ground operations
a.Discuss the need to keep the tailpipe area clear of people and flammable items during start, shutdown, and all ground operations.
b. Explain the response plan for dealing with an aircraft fire similar to one resulting from a hot start. Fire extinguisher to be present per AMA safety regulations.
c. Explain the potential for a post crash fire and the response plan to deal with the situation. Explanation to include local fire department contact number and fire fighting equipment immediately available for the modeler to respond to the fire.
d. Explain and demonstrate typical turbine startup and shutdown procedures.


2. Flight Skills
a. Takeoff, to be held within 10 feet either direction of centerline, with smooth, controlled corrections as necessary.
b. Horizontal Figure 8. Pilot to hold altitude to within +/-50 feet during the Figure 8. This demonstrates skills at both left and right hand patterns and the a bility to control the models flight path.
c. Perform two aerobatic maneuvers with combined looping and rolling elements to be selected by the turbine applicant. Examples include Cuban 8, Humpty Bump with roll, or similar maneuvers. This demonstrates the general flying skills of the modeler.
d.High Speed Circuit of the field performed at a safe high rate of speed. This demonstrates the ability to control a model aircraft at speed.
e. Square Traffic Pattern including a missed approach go-around. This maneuver to be in the opposite direction of the takeoff and landing if conditions allow. This demonstrates the ability to control a model aircraft in the landing approach mode.
f. Landing to a complete stop. Again, smooth, controlled corrections to the aircraft’s path after touchdown are required. The landing must be completed on the runway.

* At no time during the flight shall the aircraft pass behind the designated safety line.

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