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Old 05-21-2016, 07:46 AM
  #5151  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
From my perspective, I'm gonna give Ken some slack here. He and I conversed via PM where I raised that same concern. He assured me, and I trust him at his word, that he will not allow that to happen. He said that some of my posts were across the line, so I too would have been sanctioned. For the life of me, I can't remember what they were, and certainly don't think they were at the level of others even if they were, but again, I'm inclined to trust him.
Ken has cut me more of a break than anyone here will ever know due to his fairness & patience , and so I have no complaints with him at all . My belief is that the guy just got sick and tired of admonishing folks time and again and due to his usual patience he didn't want to toss anyone out and instead locked it . While I do think it says a lot of good about Ken , I do believe the folks with less than good intent will take that as an encouragement to get other threads "closed for misbehavior" when it's a subject they don't like and don't want others talking about either .
Old 05-21-2016, 08:57 AM
  #5152  
Chris P. Bacon
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
The whole red thing within a quote is a pain by the way...

As to being accountable for decisions, rest assured I have no fear of that, most of my life was spent being accountable for life and death decisions with respect to mission planning, execution, law enforcement actions I authorized, etc. The issue is time and money.

How much input into those decisions came from a public Internet forum?

How do I spend so much time posting? I really don't have to justify that to you.

I was just re-applying the analogy you recommended a few posts ago. Surely, we all strive for efficiency in life and want to maximize our ROI and minimize our losses. Since you repeatedly (and rightfully so) express deep concern for minimizing losses I was just curious what your threshold was.

However, since you asked, when I'm away at work - it's a remote worksite. 12 hour day, an hour to hit the gym, and then either TV, read, or iPad something in the evening. Not much outside activities (and certainly no flying) for a number of reasons I won't belabor here. So it's evenings when away where I do my research. When home, it's usually in the mornings over coffee after I've run the kids to school, in between other stuff, if the weather is bad, or just because I feel like it. Again, happy to help if it fits with the very real limits of my work schedule and family commitments. And those home times come in 11 day chunks a month apart - especially when during those same 11 days I have to do all the other stuff that most people do during their off time, including Drs, car repairs, etc. If I do get free time, honestly, I grab one of my helos and go to the park and fly (photo attached for proof).

I understand, but those are all life choices we make.

As to putting good money after bad, that's a fair question. I stopped putting money into the club - three years of dues ($300) w/o going there to fly once was a waste. I wish I'd put that money into batteries or a nicer charger for the stuff I can fly within walking distance. On the AMA, I'm on the fence on that until I see how this CBO, flying rules, FAA, mandatory/non-mandatory membership sorts out (I'm being very general here - please don't nit pick my words). Rough timeline? At least through the end of the year (paid through December anyway).

We've all spent money on things we've never used. It's only hindsight that we realize it was a waste. We can't blame anyone but ourselves for that.

(oh, and in case you're wondering what I'm doing right now? I'm typing this as I wait for a macro to finish on a 120mb workbook - 700,000 lines - so I can analyze some client financial / operational data).

..
Old 05-21-2016, 10:29 AM
  #5153  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
..
I see you chose to keep using the red method...

"How much input came from public internet forums?"
None. But that's only because we chose another method. Created an email address from our constituents that went straight to me...thus free of any filtering by intermediaries (in this case departments or individuals that worked for me). It allowed me to keep up on the pulse of the people I'm supposed to be serving. And allowed them to directly challenge me or my decisions (i.e. one form of accountability). We also did monthly meetings with one or more groups of constituents, scheduled so that we hit everyone once a year. Again, open forum, no filtering, direct from the people to the decision maker.

"I understand, but those are all life choices we make."

I'm trying to do what I can to influence based on the time available to me and balanced against other more important commitments. Surely you're not trying to say that I'm wrong or less of an AMA member, or have less of a right to an opinion because I choose not to devote as much time to AMA as you or others do?

"We've all spent money on things we've never used. It's only hindsight that we realize it was a waste. We can't blame anyone but ourselves for that."
I'm trying to avoid the hindsight issue by setting up some criteria now upon which I'll make a future decision. You probably could care less, but I see it as better than hindsight.
Old 05-21-2016, 12:16 PM
  #5154  
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Bacon should go with the blue ink....far more soothing! ��
Old 05-21-2016, 01:28 PM
  #5155  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
From my perspective, I'm gonna give Ken some slack here. He and I conversed via PM where I raised that same concern. He assured me, and I trust him at his word, that he will not allow that to happen. He said that some of my posts were across the line, so I too would have been sanctioned. For the life of me, I can't remember what they were, and certainly don't think they were at the level of others even if they were, but again, I'm inclined to trust him.
Which is more than fair from my prospective.

Mike
Old 05-21-2016, 02:40 PM
  #5156  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Bui when the database is fully integrated into the system anybody can look it up one at a time.
I have a DJI Phantom 2 and I fly mine more without the camera than I do with it and in FPV mode.
Old 05-22-2016, 04:45 AM
  #5157  
Chris P. Bacon
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
I see you chose to keep using the red method...

"How much input came from public internet forums?"
None. But that's only because we chose another method. Created an email address from our constituents that went straight to me...thus free of any filtering by intermediaries (in this case departments or individuals that worked for me). It allowed me to keep up on the pulse of the people I'm supposed to be serving. And allowed them to directly challenge me or my decisions (i.e. one form of accountability). We also did monthly meetings with one or more groups of constituents, scheduled so that we hit everyone once a year. Again, open forum, no filtering, direct from the people to the decision maker.

I guess I'm confused by the use of I and we. None of the input was filtered before it was sent to you but it was sent directly to you. So you did all the filtering? Sure monthly meetings good when dealing with small groups, but impractical when dealing with 180k+ members.

"I understand, but those are all life choices we make."

I'm trying to do what I can to influence based on the time available to me and balanced against other more important commitments. Surely you're not trying to say that I'm wrong or less of an AMA member, or have less of a right to an opinion because I choose not to devote as much time to AMA as you or others do?

If you reread my previous post in its entirety, you'll learn that no where in my post did I indicate that you're wrong in voicing your opinion.

I'm simply trying to ascertain how you're applying your own recommendations to the situation at hand. You stated:

"At what point do you stop putting good money after bad."

Time is money. With 1,509+
detailed posts consuming hundreds of hours with no measurable results, I'm curious of the KPI's you've identified that, using you own analogy, recommend you continue to "put good money after bad"?

In a previous post you indicated a six-figure salary as well many high priority responsibilities many of us share, family, etc.

Considering someone with a six-figure salary renews their AMA membership at the old rate ($58) that amounts to less than 0.058% of their annual salary.

What I'm trying to understand is the ROI of one annual expense of < 0.058% of an annual salary that consumes dozens of hours annually, especially considering the list of priorities identified earlier.


"We've all spent money on things we've never used. It's only hindsight that we realize it was a waste. We can't blame anyone but ourselves for that."
I'm trying to avoid the hindsight issue by setting up some criteria now upon which I'll make a future decision. You probably could care less, but I see it as better than hindsight.

We all try to avoid hindsight issues, but since we can't predict the future it's quite difficult.
..
Old 05-22-2016, 05:46 AM
  #5158  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
..
The I/We is a military thing...it's always the team that did something, even if it was an individual effort. In this case yes, all input came to me, I did the filtering. I did the responding. Some got a private response, some of the Q&A was published in the paper, some answered in other forums, some not answered. But, as I said earlier, "we" did it - hence the use of that pronoun. I'm getting sloppy as I get farther away from my military writing.

What's critical was the goal we(I) were(was) trying to achieve? Transparency in decision making. As long as the decision is reasonable, rational, and lawful, I found that people tend to support you if they understand the "why" behind the "what." They may not agree with what you decided, but they tend to at least tolerate it if they understand the logic or the other factors they might not have considered. In the case of the AMA, I think we were told the "what" (embrace drones) but never were graced with the "why." I'd argue this is especially important when it's a close vote, in this case the I think it was the president who cast the tiebreaker. Ever notice what happens on close votes in the House or Senate? There's a greater than average number of people doing pressers explaining their votes. That's not on accident. Again, people tend to understand the "what" if they're trusted to know the "why." I'd love for AMA to share with us unwashed masses of general members the "why" behind that decision. If it was a blatant attempt to stem the tide of an aging population...just tell us.

As for what's practical and impractical, I'd like to give you a more complete answer. What do you consider a small group (and therefore anything else would be large)?

As to the time, that's mine to choose how to spend. If I want to spend hours and hours on posts with no return, that's my choice. It's a false comparison because it's only my money (time) I'm spending. I alone choose how to spend my time and if I want to waste thousands of hours posting, quite honestly, that's none of your business. It also does not in any way detract from my arguments, despite any attempts to imply that it does by raising the issue. Thus, I don't need KPIs, because the only person I'm accountable to is me. Now, an organization that collects dues from members and exists as a non-profit thus reaping benefits of that in the form of reduced taxes to support the nation? Yep. KPIs are in order. They're not accountable to themselves, they're accountable to us, the people that pay the bills, and the taxpayers who graciously allow them to have tax exempt status.

As to the AMA rate as a comparison against my salary, it's not $58 anymore, it's now $75. Again though, it's irrelevant as to the percentage of my pay. I don't have to justify it to you. On this issue, I simply look at it in terms of what I get for the money. For me, it's insurance that pays only after both my homeowners and umbrella policy, a magazine, and the ability to fly at a club - the closest which is 13 miles away - which by the way comes with another $100 annual fee. I paid that $300 for three years and didn't use it once. I'd rather put that $300 into batteries and upgrades for stuff I fly every couple days (when I'm home) within walking distance of my house.

And the comment about "We all try to avoid hindsight issues, but since we can't predict the future it's quite difficult." Not much to say... except that you've clearly mastered the obvious.

Last edited by franklin_m; 05-22-2016 at 05:49 AM. Reason: Cut and paste omitted line spaces...added back
Old 05-22-2016, 07:04 AM
  #5159  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
The I/We is a military thing...it's always the team that did something, even if it was an individual effort. In this case yes, all input came to me, I did the filtering. I did the responding. Some got a private response, some of the Q&A was published in the paper, some answered in other forums, some not answered. But, as I said earlier, "we" did it - hence the use of that pronoun. I'm getting sloppy as I get farther away from my military writing.

If one individual did the filtering it wasn't a "we" thing. I suspected some control issues were at play, but didn't want speculate until they were confirmed.

What's critical was the goal we(I) were(was) trying to achieve? Transparency in decision making.

So there was transparency in the decision, but filtering of the input data?

As long as the decision is reasonable, rational, and lawful, I found that people tend to support you if they understand the "why" behind the "what." They may not agree with what you decided, but they tend to at least tolerate it if they understand the logic or the other factors they might not have considered.

Agreed.

In the case of the AMA, I think we were told the "what" (embrace drones) but never were graced with the "why." I'd argue this is especially important when it's a close vote, in this case the I think it was the president who cast the tiebreaker. Ever notice what happens on close votes in the House or Senate? There's a greater than average number of people doing pressers explaining their votes. That's not on accident. Again, people tend to understand the "what" if they're trusted to know the "why." I'd love for AMA to share with us unwashed masses of general members the "why" behind that decision. If it was a blatant attempt to stem the tide of an aging population...just tell us.

When organizations make these decisions it should be based on their mission statement. What part of the AMA's mission statement would lead you to believe embracing drones is inconsistent with their mission statement?

As for what's practical and impractical, I'd like to give you a more complete answer. What do you consider a small group (and therefore anything else would be large)?

I'd probably consider a small group on the order of several hundred. Maybe < 250.

As to the time, that's mine to choose how to spend. If I want to spend hours and hours on posts with no return, that's my choice. It's a false comparison because it's only my money (time) I'm spending. I alone choose how to spend my time and if I want to waste thousands of hours posting, quite honestly, that's none of your business. It also does not in any way detract from my arguments, despite any attempts to imply that it does by raising the issue. Thus, I don't need KPIs, because the only person I'm accountable to is me.

Principle centered leadership is just that, leadership based on principles. Principles are natural laws that apply everywhere. If you believe in the principles, you follow them. As principles, you cannot apply them selectively. Those who don't believe in them shouldn't preach them. Sure, I preach them, but that's only because I believe in them. I also believe they apply as equally to me as they do anything else.

I agree the hundreds of hours invested doesn't detract from the arguments in any way. However, as the time investment into those arguments continues to increase it does significantly detract from the credibility of those arguments as the measurable change resulting from said arguments remains zero.

Your statement sums it up quite nicely:

"At what point do you stop putting good money after bad."

Now, an organization that collects dues from members and exists as a non-profit thus reaping benefits of that in the form of reduced taxes to support the nation? Yep. KPIs are in order.

Is the AMA engaging in any illegal activity? If so, what?

They're not accountable to themselves, they're accountable to us, the people that pay the bills, and the taxpayers who graciously allow them to have tax exempt status.

As individuals, we need to be accountable to ourselves before we can be accountable to others. If we can't establish our own KPI's and follow them how can we hold others accountable for doing the same?

As to the AMA rate as a comparison against my salary, it's not $58 anymore, it's now $75. Again though, it's irrelevant as to the percentage of my pay. I don't have to justify it to you.

Did you pay the $58 or the $75 rate? It's not about justifying it me, it's about justifying it against the principles.

On this issue, I simply look at it in terms of what I get for the money. For me, it's insurance that pays only after both my homeowners and umbrella policy, a magazine, and the ability to fly at a club - the closest which is 13 miles away - which by the way comes with another $100 annual fee. I paid that $300 for three years and didn't use it once. I'd rather put that $300 into batteries and upgrades for stuff I fly every couple days (when I'm home) within walking distance of my house.

The cost/benefit analysis is a personal choice decision. If the cost/benefit isn't justified it doesn't make sense to purchase any product/service.


And the comment about "We all try to avoid hindsight issues, but since we can't predict the future it's quite difficult." Not much to say... except that you've clearly mastered the obvious.

Since you indicated you are actively working hindsight optimization through future prediction I felt it worthwhile to point that out just in case it was accidentally overlooked.
..

Last edited by Chris P. Bacon; 05-22-2016 at 07:42 AM.
Old 05-22-2016, 07:42 AM
  #5160  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
..
"If one individual did the filtering it wasn't a "we" thing. I suspected some control issues were at play, but didn't want speculate until they were confirmed." - The feedback (email) came to me as the head of the organization. Nobody in between. No filtering except that done by me and me alone. I wanted unfiltered raw input from constituents.

"So there was transparency in the decision, but filtering of the input data?" - Per above, no filtering of the feedback on decisions. Transparency in decision making? Yes. Except for cases that were law enforcement or national security sensitive, I was more than happy to have my decision making challenged and justify the actions. I felt that if it couldn't stand up to the scruitiny, it was likely a position that needed to be re-examined.

"When organizations make these decisions it should be based on their mission statement. What part of the AMA's mission statement would lead you to believe embracing drones is inconsistent with their mission statement?" - Yes, but as I learned from a Harvard prof at war college, most organization's mission statements are great - as doorstops (literally). They're so full of ambiguous and flowerly language that they can be interpreted any number of ways that they're meaningless. For example, when a mission statement says that we're "going to be the best." What does that mean? Do we all have a shared vision of best? Is that best in service, best in margin, best in our region, best nationally, internationally, etc.? Good mission statements generally fall into the "word picture" category...descriptions in practical terms what the world likes when you've accomplished your mission. To be effective, they have to define clearly what you will do, and in something missing form most, language that helps you decide what you won't do. Lest they become "do everything" missions. I have some readings on it that I would give to my students, HBR and others, but I don't have that drive with me at the moment.

"I'd probably consider a small group on the order of several hundred. Maybe < 250." - Ok, we had 14,000. Talked to all 14K directly each year through regular meetings, publications, speaking engagements, walkabouts, safety stand downs, quarters, captain's calls, etc. I maintained a policy of being very approachable, had people even come to my door at 0700 on a Saturday morning to provide feedback on housing assignment decisions I'd made. Did I turn them away? Nope. I listened - because it was my job and it was the right thing to do.

"Principle centered leadership ...." - Principled leadership is a good thing. But I'm not leading the AMA. I'm leading myself and my family. I will let time measure what's the result of those arguments. I argue the results have not been zero as you've contended. A discussion of turbine risk ranking based on kinetic energy came up at last EC meeting - that came from phoncon I had with EVP several months ago. Wildly out of date safety of flight information on the website has been updated. We have a definitive statement from Chad B that AMA will not consider membership as a requirement to be in compliance with the AMA safety code. I submitted a comment to FAA on registration, one statement was quoted verbatim in FAA's defense of their position, two other statements were paraphrased in defense of their position. I received a callback from a DC Senate staffer in response to comments made on Senate bill and ammendments. While not all of these are directly based on these RCU posts, many result from back and forth and ideas fleshed out here.

"Is the AMA engaging in any illegal activity? If so, what?" - Didn't say that nor did I (think) I implied it. Merely stating that we pay the bills and AMA exists as a non-profit at the permission of the taxpayers. I merely stated that accountability looks very different for them than my accountability to myself.

"Did you pay the $58 or the $75 rate? It's not about justifying it me, it's about justifying it against the principles." - I paid the $58 during my last renewal and I did so on the last possible day. If I renew, I'll do the same with the $75.

"As individuals, we need to be accountable to ourselves before we can be accountable to others. If we can't establish our own KPI's and follow them how can we hold others accountable for doing the same?" - I'm plenty accountable to myself, and regardless, I'm the sole arbitrator of that. If I choose to establish personal KPIs or not, that's my business.
Old 05-22-2016, 09:14 AM
  #5161  
Chris P. Bacon
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
"If one individual did the filtering it wasn't a "we" thing. I suspected some control issues were at play, but didn't want speculate until they were confirmed." - The feedback (email) came to me as the head of the organization. Nobody in between. No filtering except that done by me and me alone. I wanted unfiltered raw input from constituents.

It's good to receive unfiltered input, but when one person filters it it's cause for concern.

"So there was transparency in the decision, but filtering of the input data?" - Per above, no filtering of the feedback on decisions. Transparency in decision making? Yes. Except for cases that were law enforcement or national security sensitive, I was more than happy to have my decision making challenged and justify the actions. I felt that if it couldn't stand up to the scruitiny, it was likely a position that needed to be re-examined.

Having one person filter the data allows one justify the decisions they wish to make.

"When organizations make these decisions it should be based on their mission statement. What part of the AMA's mission statement would lead you to believe embracing drones is inconsistent with their mission statement?" - Yes, but as I learned from a Harvard prof at war college, most organization's mission statements are great - as doorstops (literally). They're so full of ambiguous and flowerly language that they can be interpreted any number of ways that they're meaningless. For example, when a mission statement says that we're "going to be the best." What does that mean? Do we all have a shared vision of best? Is that best in service, best in margin, best in our region, best nationally, internationally, etc.? Good mission statements generally fall into the "word picture" category...descriptions in practical terms what the world likes when you've accomplished your mission. To be effective, they have to define clearly what you will do, and in something missing form most, language that helps you decide what you won't do. Lest they become "do everything" missions. I have some readings on it that I would give to my students, HBR and others, but I don't have that drive with me at the moment.

That's a nice piece on mission statements, but doesn't answer the specific question I asked on how the AMA's mission statement is inconsistent with their support of drones? Did you have any specifics you can share regarding the AMA's mission statement?

"I'd probably consider a small group on the order of several hundred. Maybe < 250." - Ok, we had 14,000. Talked to all 14K directly each year through regular meetings, publications, speaking engagements, walkabouts, safety stand downs, quarters, captain's calls, etc. I maintained a policy of being very approachable, had people even come to my door at 0700 on a Saturday morning to provide feedback on housing assignment decisions I'd made. Did I turn them away? Nope. I listened - because it was my job and it was the right thing to do.

That's a lot of people. Certainly too many to engage with on a personal basis in any given year.

"Principle centered leadership ...." - Principled leadership is a good thing. But I'm not leading the AMA. I'm leading myself and my family.

Principle centered leadership is about how individuals lead themselves, if leaders we can't lead themselves how can we expect them to lead organizations?

I will let time measure what's the result of those arguments.

How much time is enough time? 1,500+ posts over a decade isn't enough time?

I argue the results have not been zero as you've contended. A discussion of turbine risk ranking based on kinetic energy came up at last EC meeting - that came from phoncon I had with EVP several months ago. Wildly out of date safety of flight information on the website has been updated.

Seems that came out of the FAA registration team that the FAA put together this past Fall.

We have a definitive statement from Chad B that AMA will not consider membership as a requirement to be in compliance with the AMA safety code.

Who would be validating the compliance? Seems like a voluntary thing that has always existed. Any individual could read the AMA safety code and claim self-compliance.

I submitted a comment to FAA on registration, one statement was quoted verbatim in FAA's defense of their position, two other statements were paraphrased in defense of their position. I received a callback from a DC Senate staffer in response to comments made on Senate bill and ammendments. While not all of these are directly based on these RCU posts, many result from back and forth and ideas fleshed out here.

Did they result in any change by the AMA? If so, what?

"Is the AMA engaging in any illegal activity? If so, what?" - Didn't say that nor did I (think) I implied it. Merely stating that we pay the bills and AMA exists as a non-profit at the permission of the taxpayers. I merely stated that accountability looks very different for them than my accountability to myself.

Is their accountability in conflict with the permmssion of the taxpayers?

"Did you pay the $58 or the $75 rate? It's not about justifying it me, it's about justifying it against the principles." - I paid the $58 during my last renewal and I did so on the last possible day. If I renew, I'll do the same with the $75.

"As individuals, we need to be accountable to ourselves before we can be accountable to others. If we can't establish our own KPI's and follow them how can we hold others accountable for doing the same?" - I'm plenty accountable to myself, and regardless, I'm the sole arbitrator of that. If I choose to establish personal KPIs or not, that's my business.

It is, but if we beleive in KPI's for everone else why would we not beleive in them for ourselves?
..
Old 05-22-2016, 11:48 AM
  #5162  
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Franklin, you will never get the last word with Crispy and yes the red is annoying, for everyone. He is just like Sport when it omes to that.
Old 05-22-2016, 02:30 PM
  #5163  
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Originally Posted by rgburrill
Franklin, you will never get the last word with Crispy and yes the red is annoying, for everyone. He is just like Sport when it omes to that.
B.S. there Mr. RG-gurr-ill: The REDemphasis makes the whole thing understandable. U know whom is saying what to whom the inserting the RED remarks into the other persons post only ads to the clarity of the conversation. .... much less confusing than this whole stupid conversation. If more people would make emphasis of their post in this way, maybe so many here wouldn't be so confused all the time. As for getting the last word with Crispy or anyone. No one here is smart enough the get the last word in except maybe ME. LOL what a joke Hey? All this crap means is no one will ever convince any one else to the extent that U are right and they are wrong on either side of an issue. that's because it seems we are all so PIG HEADED nothing will ever be solved. Sorry Crispy that was not a derogatory remark against U. I certainly hope U don't take it as such ... thgir si ypsirhC tub
Old 05-22-2016, 02:51 PM
  #5164  
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the red, the yellow, the light blue, all suck as a readable medium.

and as the singer, who quite obviously had conversations with mr. crispy, once said
"world goes round in circles..."
Old 05-22-2016, 03:57 PM
  #5165  
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Originally Posted by rgburrill
Franklin, you will never get the last word with Crispy and yes the red is annoying, for everyone. He is just like Sport when it omes to that.
I have no desire to pursue this any further than necessary. I simply asked franklin_m how he's applying his rational to his crusade. To date, I have yet to receive a straight answer.
Old 05-22-2016, 03:59 PM
  #5166  
Chris P. Bacon
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
B.S. there Mr. RG-gurr-ill: The REDemphasis makes the whole thing understandable. U know whom is saying what to whom the inserting the RED remarks into the other persons post only ads to the clarity of the conversation. .... much less confusing than this whole stupid conversation. If more people would make emphasis of their post in this way, maybe so many here wouldn't be so confused all the time. As for getting the last word with Crispy or anyone. No one here is smart enough the get the last word in except maybe ME. LOL what a joke Hey? All this crap means is no one will ever convince any one else to the extent that U are right and they are wrong on either side of an issue. that's because it seems we are all so PIG HEADED nothing will ever be solved. Sorry Crispy that was not a derogatory remark against U. I certainly hope U don't take it as such ... thgir si ypsirhC tub
Thanks for the kind words Doggie!

Old 05-22-2016, 06:31 PM
  #5167  
HoundDog
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
B.S. there Mr. RG-gurr-ill: The REDemphasis makes the whole thing understandable. U know whom is saying what to whom the inserting the RED remarks into the other persons post only ads to the clarity of the conversation. .... much less confusing than this whole stupid conversation. If more people would make emphasis of their post in this way, maybe so many here wouldn't be so confused all the time. As for getting the last word with Crispy or anyone. No one here is smart enough the get the last word in except maybe ME. LOL what a joke Hey? All this crap means is no one will ever convince any one else to the extent that U are right and they are wrong on either side of an issue. that's because it seems we are all so PIG HEADED nothing will ever be solved. Sorry Crispy that was not a derogatory remark against U. I certainly hope U don't take it as such ... thgir si ypsirhC tub

Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
Thanks for the kind words Doggie!

emoclew tsom era U
Old 06-02-2016, 05:32 AM
  #5168  
porcia83
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Default More of nothing.....

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...rocess-stalls/

Perhaps they are waiting for the next administration to get into place, and then the whole thing starts over again.
Old 06-02-2016, 05:42 AM
  #5169  
BarracudaHockey
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That would be my unofficial and personal opinion guess
Old 06-02-2016, 07:13 AM
  #5170  
porcia83
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
That would be my unofficial and personal opinion guess
My layman's guess as well...otherwise known as pass the buck.
Old 06-02-2016, 08:08 AM
  #5171  
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Seen this one - good to see the Police take the side of the RC'er - lucky he was registered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEKafiDxhCc
Old 06-02-2016, 09:07 AM
  #5172  
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Originally Posted by Rob2160
Seen this one - good to see the Police take the side of the RC'er -lucky he was registered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEKafiDxhCc
Wow!!! I now feel 10000 times better about myself as a person!! lol. Straight............up.............lunatic!!!!!!!!
Old 06-02-2016, 09:36 AM
  #5173  
porcia83
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LoL...if only they could have played it back for the officer on the spot. The flip side to this is that there are folks out there flying these MR that are not as polite and or respectful, and are actually causing problems, thus some of the paranoia and hysteria that we see here from this woman. She had no problem with the gliders, but not a fan of MR. I've heard that before, ha.

I heard the pilot tell the cop he was registered with the FAA and AMA...wonder if he was one of the 692 new folks that joined.
Old 06-03-2016, 04:02 AM
  #5174  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
LoL...if only they could have played it back for the officer on the spot. The flip side to this is that there are folks out there flying these MR that are not as polite and or respectful, and are actually causing problems, thus some of the paranoia and hysteria that we see here from this woman. She had no problem with the gliders, but not a fan of MR. I've heard that before, ha.

I heard the pilot tell the cop he was registered with the FAA and AMA...wonder if he was one of the 692 new folks that joined.
What ya wana bet these guys fly "Traditional" R/C Toy Airplanes too. Maybe Helicopters too.

Besides isn't Lying to a police officer some kind of misdemeanor at least. Wonder what fines might be imposed for these action by an obviously lying woman?

That's one of the reasons I now have a dash cam and my Smart phone can be put into Record in 3 strokes and the video lens is above the top of my shirt pocket. U would be supersized how well U behave when U know U are recording.

Last edited by HoundDog; 06-03-2016 at 04:11 AM.
Old 06-03-2016, 04:44 AM
  #5175  
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What I got from that video was that they claimed the drone was a mile away, and apparently lost contact with the transmitter. We are not suppose to fly beyond line of sight, and must use a spotter when flying FPV. And we don't see previous footage which may show the drone buzzing that lady.

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