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AMA executive council accountability

Old 12-27-2015, 05:08 PM
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Red Raider
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Default AMA executive council accountability

I'm not going to go on and on, as a lot of you have already done an admirable job of making some very good points both logical and political concerning the registration fiasco. Most of us agree that the current Federal Administration has egregiously over reached in many areas with regulations and court rulings that have negatively impacted personal freedoms. The most recent and worst of them all is the prohibition of employers to exclude convicted felons from employment. Texas is currently suing the EEOC and the Obama administration to be allowed to exclude convicted felons from jobs as teachers and first responders. Where is it going to end?!?! Anyway, here's my 2 cents worth -

AMA should've never endorsed or supported FPV or Drones as they do not reflect the TYPE of flying that AMA and the membership have traditionally embraced. Just because a new technology is available, doesn't mean it fits with previously existing environments. For years there were many clubs that excluded helicopters at their fields because of the difference in the flight parameters - they didn't fit. That's why there's IRHCA. That's why there's IMAC. I think they (AMA EC) jumped on the drone bandwagon looking to cash in on a potential revenue stream instead of protecting the "modelers". They came up with a different class for the park fliers, if they wanted to bring them into the AMA fold they should've done the same for the drones. I don't know how many of the "new drone owners" from this holiday season are going to join AMA, but I bet the number is close to zero. Instead, what they accomplished, was to lump us all together and not just blur the line between models and drones, but completely erase it. Why would/should we (AMA members) spend a million dollars to protect a class of RCers that have no intention of embracing anything that we do or stand for???? The mess we're in now was completely avoidable. The AMA EC is to blame for making poor decisions in the beginning that led us down this road. Had we circled the wagons and clearly said that drones are not "model aircraft" the registration fiasco would more likely be focused where it belongs. If the EC has not figured out their error, we should identify those who are specifically responsible for making those decisions and make sure we replace them with modelers who protect OUR interests and not those who operate outside our organization.
Old 12-27-2015, 05:17 PM
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Red, welcome to this forum and welcome to the side that is able to see how we were failed.
Old 12-27-2015, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
Red, welcome to this forum and welcome to the side that is able to see how we were failed.
We failed miserably. We failed by allowing our EC to run amok without seeking the input from the membership and acting alone in making decisions that effected us all. They're not a lot different from the bureaucrats they gave us up to.

We we fail again if we allow them to continue down this path. I'm not calling for their resignation unless they deny their culpability.
Old 12-27-2015, 10:05 PM
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I'm sure the first place the EC will go to is a thread here on RCU to deny culpability. Historically they do their business here?

I'll give you this, unlike most who just assign blame solely to the AMA, at least you have accepted some measure of responsibility as well. You're off base about them acting "alone" in making decision, what does that even mean? At the very least it's a group of people making decisions, not a single person. But let's not split hairs.

Others have and will complain about the past, just as you have done here. Why didn't they, they should have, etc etc. Interesting to see the complaints now, where have you personally been on this issue over the past say...3 years as it was unfolding. What specifically were you doing all this time. What exactly are you proposing now on a go forward basis, other than "not calling for their resignation". A letter writing campaign? A change.org sign up? Other than complain and blame, what exactly should they do to hopefully keep from being asked to resign? Don't say ban drones, won't make a difference. Don't say ban multi-rotors, won't make a difference. Finally how will you be involved going forward, will it entail being personally involved, running for some type of AMA office in order to make change, or will it just be comments on a thread in RCU. Not saying that doesn't count for something, but really, how will that effect specific change?

PS...did you vote in the last elections for your district ?
Old 12-28-2015, 01:12 AM
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Porcia, according to you most folks [like you] are too busy to build a model, so where do you propose the spare time comes from to take any of the useless actions that you just suggested....?
Do you REALLY think that the average guy who is not connected with the model industry in some way is going to quit his career [and pension program] so that he can take your advice...?
You can't be serious.
Old 12-28-2015, 05:20 AM
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Well, where to start. I guess it all starts with building eh? Gotta start there I guess, with some that's the holy grail of RC. That you derive such pleasure from it is really fantastic, I mean that. The hobby is so much more than that, I prefer to look at it this way, if someone is in the hobby and enjoying themselves that's good enough for me. Personal preference and all right? But I was spurred on by earlier discussions with you on this topic, so I bought a kit which I'll start someday soon. Also, I did an easier "build" and actually it's up on the front page now, First steps and all. Why don't you submit some of your own. Also, I'll be looking for some advice later today on how to modify my Telemaster, hope you might help if you can.

Useless actions, ya...there have been many of those suggested in the threads of late. Where you referring to the letter writing campaigns, or the Change.org petitions? Yes, I agree, almost completely useless in and of themselves. I could have swore though that you cheered on those folks when they did them. They have all pretty much petered out, the campaigns are pretty much over, but hey, at least those guys tried something rather than just complain on an RC site.

Now who is doing some spinning here, I never said anything about an average guy not connected with the hobby quitting anything. Who is this average guy you speak of. Surely someone complaining about the AMA Leadership on a RC modeling website isn't an average guy not connected with the hobby are they?

I get the OP's complaint and frustration, and you are in full agreement of course. I'm wondering though, what is a thread like this suppose to do? Whats the endgame? You welcome him to this thread and this "side", already drawing up an us versus them scenario. That is useful how? We are all actually on the same side here, we're mostly AMA members and hobbyists who don't like whats going on over the past few years with our hobby.

When I see someone complaining about holding another person or group accountable for something (and in this case something somewhat out of the AMA's control), I think it's natural to look for more than just a complaint about something that's happened in the past. The past is the past, nothing can change that. I see all these threads like this filled with complaints, but almost no suggestions on what to do going forward. No solutions. just angry empty rhetoric with no answers. If they are just rants, well that's fine and good. If they are calls to action, I think its fair to ask specifically what those actions are, and how the OP will go about implementing them.

Hope you enjoyed the holidays, there's one left coming up! Our first event of the year is 1-1, hopefully the weather holds out.
Old 12-28-2015, 08:25 AM
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People in the SW will have a chance to vent face to face with AMA Leadership at the AMA Expo starting a week from Friday at the Ontario, CA Convention center. There is a general membership meeting and the entire EC will be at the show as well. Here is you chance to talk to them face to face rather than simply venting on the Interwebs.
Old 12-28-2015, 12:00 PM
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Porcia, what is your 1MM characters per day bandwidth consumption at RCU [&RCG too..?] supposed to do...?
Old 12-28-2015, 12:02 PM
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Exactly. Wish I could be there to see it live. I suspect most of the complaints will be those lodged here that will be based in the "ban this or that"....or " wish things were like the old days" category. Little in the way of helpful suggestions on how to manage this change going forward, but hey that might happen. Wonder if they are prepping for the questions like the candidates do before debates. I don't think this will be an easy expo for them.
Old 12-28-2015, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
Porcia, what is your 1MM characters per day bandwidth consumption at RCU [&RCG too..?] supposed to do...?
I'll ask you as the resident post record holder. Do tell
Thanks for following along. I see the holidays are a good time for you. Nothing to add but more offtopic personal attacks.

Last edited by porcia83; 12-28-2015 at 12:05 PM.
Old 12-28-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R View Post
People in the SW will have a chance to vent face to face with AMA Leadership at the AMA Expo starting a week from Friday at the Ontario, CA Convention center. There is a general membership meeting and the entire EC will be at the show as well. Here is you chance to talk to them face to face rather than simply venting on the Interwebs.
Yes I am going to miss that meeting for the first time in years.


I think due to past (incorrect) actions, our course of action is now set, but we need different leadership moving forward.

With the coming lawsuits, there will be a lot of decisions that the AMA will need to make and I don't want the same people making them.

Accountability, in simpler words. I believe many AMA members share my feelings.
Old 12-28-2015, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
I'll ask you as the resident post record holder. Do tell
Thanks for following along. I see the holidays are a good time for you. Nothing to add but more offtopic personal attacks.
Of the countless hours you spend each and every day at these Toy Airplane Forums pounding the keys, what percent would you say is devoted to telling others how they could make better use of their time...?
Old 12-28-2015, 04:40 PM
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But porcia, about half of what you say is completely useless
Old 12-28-2015, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
Of the countless hours you spend each and every day at these Toy Airplane Forums pounding the keys, what percent would you say is devoted to telling others how they could make better use of their time...?
When you double down and thrash about it's even funnier, but I do feel for you. You take the time to stalk me and count how much time I spend on here, and my posts, and try to editorialize them (all the while incorrect), and you want to preach about use of time? Guess the building is taking a back seat, congrats on the 19581 posting mark. Quite an achievement. It feel nothing but pity watching you get more consumed. But carry on as you see fit, if that's what drives you have at it. Avoid the issues, attack the messenger. Oh well.
Old 12-28-2015, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by twistman View Post
But porcia, about half of what you say is completely useless
Hey...sometimes ya gotta sort through the gravel to find a diamond. If you put me at .500 I guess I'll say thank you, much appreciated. Whats your take on the OP topic, or are you here to add your own gems?
Old 12-28-2015, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
I'm sure the first place the EC will go to is a thread here on RCU to deny culpability. Historically they do their business here?

I'll give you this, unlike most who just assign blame solely to the AMA, at least you have accepted some measure of responsibility as well. You're off base about them acting "alone" in making decision, what does that even mean? At the very least it's a group of people making decisions, not a single person. But let's not split hairs.

Others have and will complain about the past, just as you have done here. Why didn't they, they should have, etc etc. Interesting to see the complaints now, where have you personally been on this issue over the past say...3 years as it was unfolding. What specifically were you doing all this time. What exactly are you proposing now on a go forward basis, other than "not calling for their resignation". A letter writing campaign? A change.org sign up? Other than complain and blame, what exactly should they do to hopefully keep from being asked to resign? Don't say ban drones, won't make a difference. Don't say ban multi-rotors, won't make a difference. Finally how will you be involved going forward, will it entail being personally involved, running for some type of AMA office in order to make change, or will it just be comments on a thread in RCU. Not saying that doesn't count for something, but really, how will that effect specific change?

PS...did you vote in the last elections for your district ?
Yes sir, I did vote. I always vote. And I made my opinions known to our VP. I don't just sit back and say what should've been done. But, my opinions fell on deaf ears. what does acting alone mean? Really? It means they acted without seeking the opinions of those they represent. Going forward? I thought I made that abundantly clear. They either face up to the mistake of not seeking the membership's guidance and following the wishes of the majority or they should resign or be asked to resign by the membership. What will I do in the future?? I'm currently seeking to find out if mine is the majority opinion or the minority. If the majority agree with me, then I will be glad to lead the movement for change. And just so you'll know that your questions are coming from an uninformed, assumptive perspective, I also posted the exact same message on the AMA forum here, and I'm going to post it on the AMA website. I'm not afraid to voice my opinions, because I base them on what I see, or what I know. I'm also ready to admit when I'm wrong or when my opinions do not reflect the norm. If that's the case, then I do what I recommend to others that find themselves in a similar situation - keep my mouth shut and get along.
Old 12-28-2015, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Raider View Post
Yes sir, I did vote. I always vote. And I made my opinions known to our VP. I don't just sit back and say what should've been done. But, my opinions fell on deaf ears. what does acting alone mean? Really? It means they acted without seeking the opinions of those they represent. Going forward? I thought I made that abundantly clear. They either face up to the mistake of not seeking the membership's guidance and following the wishes of the majority or they should resign or be asked to resign by the membership. What will I do in the future?? I'm currently seeking to find out if mine is the majority opinion or the minority. If the majority agree with me, then I will be glad to lead the movement for change. And just so you'll know that your questions are coming from an uninformed, assumptive perspective, I also posted the exact same message on the AMA forum here, and I'm going to post it on the AMA website. I'm not afraid to voice my opinions, because I base them on what I see, or what I know. I'm also ready to admit when I'm wrong or when my opinions do not reflect the norm. If that's the case, then I do what I recommend to others that find themselves in a similar situation - keep my mouth shut and get along.
Nobody said you shouldn't post your opinion, or that only opinions that reflect the norm should be posted. I've been bashed for at least a year now for sharing my thoughts on the AMA and the FAA, it just comes with the territory of not following along with the pack. I think it's great that you vote, and great that you share your thoughts on the issue, at a minimum it gets a conversation going, most usually productive. As you see here already, sometimes it just leads to personal attacks. When I read your Op initially it sounded like so many others, blame and castigation, the requisite Obama reference, and talking about things that happened in the past. As I read it again, I do see a reference to another common theme, lets get some new people in the EC. So at the end of the day, at least there is a call to action I suppose. I'm not sure what any new person(s) are going to do to change the past, I say nothing. Getting a new EC is probably not going to make a change, but hey, it's a process and at the end of the day this is a membership driven organization, so if that's what they want, that's what they can do. I don't think the AMA took every chance they had, nor maximized their opportunities in some situations, but at the end of the day I do believe we would still be in this situation regardless of what they did. The way the registration is working, even the definition the FAA put on our aircraft, there isn't one thing there they could have changed. If Google and Amazon and DJI didn't get what they wanted, how were we ever going to? Anyway, I appreciate the response and the that fact that it wasn't an attack. If my initial response was harsh, or seemed personal in nature, my apologies, it wasn't meant that way. I hope this all works out for the best for all of us. If the reg is the only thing we have to deal with, for me that's o/k. I know it's more than a process that some disagree with, it's the whole govt involvement thing. Anway, happy holidays and a good night to you.
Old 12-28-2015, 06:02 PM
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My take is the same as most of the guys on this forum,the AMA has let us down. They saw fit to embrace the Drones, only to try to make more money and it ended up hurting the ones of us that only fly for fun. My question to you porcia, do you ever fly planes or are you a drone jocky? You seem to spend a lot of time on the keyboard!
Old 12-28-2015, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by twistman View Post
My take is the same as most of the guys on this forum,the AMA has let us down. They saw fit to embrace the Drones, only to try to make more money and it ended up hurting the ones of us that only fly for fun. My question to you porcia, do you ever fly planes or are you a drone jocky? You seem to spend a lot of time on the keyboard!
Does it stand to reason that if you know I spend a lot of time on the keyboard, you are right there along with me reading? Always funny watching people try to look down from their high horses and fail so miserably, missing the irony of their own hypocrisy. Step up your game, or move on, you're boring already. Thanks for your thoughts on the AMA though.

Although you should know from following along with my posts, I don't do drones, or quads, or even helis. Don't care for them in the least. I'm fixed wing all the way baby...from ultra micro, to ADF, up to my giant scale stuff ( all electric). Howsbout you? Would I be wrong to guess you're into Warbirds and scale stuff like J-3 Cubs etc? Those are great too.
Old 12-28-2015, 06:30 PM
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Yes you are wrong on Warbirds and scale, I fly 3D and Bi-Planes. The only reson I look on here is because I can't fly at night, but I fly everyday weather permiting, do you. I love this hobby but AMA is not helping us to keep it!
Old 12-28-2015, 06:31 PM
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No I fly giant 3D and bi-planes. I have a few electrics but mostly gas and nitro. All my flying is planes no drones or quads, and no J3 Cubs.
Old 12-28-2015, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by twistman View Post
No I fly giant 3D and bi-planes. I have a few electrics but mostly gas and nitro. All my flying is planes no drones or quads, and no J3 Cubs.
Ugh....3D...oh you and your sport flier buddies are the worst, zipping along doing those hovers at mid field!

Just to be sure, I'm joking...it's all good. I also firmly believe no matter what you fly, if you enjoy it and are safe, there is a place for that a club, no matter how big or small.
Old 12-28-2015, 06:58 PM
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I hope you have a nice holiday season, I am going to get my stuff ready to fly tomorrow!
Old 12-28-2015, 07:02 PM
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Likewise, have fun!
Old 12-28-2015, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by twistman View Post
But porcia, about half of what you say is completely useless
thanks for that. I was thinking the same thing. No use what so ever. Just a complaint about people expressing an opinion - arguing for the sake of arguing.

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