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FAA LEO guidelines

Old 12-28-2015, 12:05 PM
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bokuda
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Default FAA LEO guidelines

This may be posted elsewhere, but I want to make sure everyone sees it.

http://www.faa.gov/uas/law_enforceme...dance_card.pdf

In the footnotes at the bottom it refers to altitude limits as "Generally 400' or 200' (but can be higher)" The new rule makes it quite clear that the limit is 400' and we must agree to abide by that when/if we register.

In the same block in footnote #1 it confusingly refers to aircraft having to be registered, not just the operator.

I'd also like to post this link which shows what we have to look forward to when we fly from now on.

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=725928
Old 12-28-2015, 12:08 PM
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porcia83
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Seriously you do no good nor service to anyone reposting scare tactic links. Your time is better spent reading that link for the whole story...did you bother doing that before posting it?
Old 12-28-2015, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bokuda View Post
In the footnotes at the bottom it refers to altitude limits as "Generally 400' or 200' (but can be higher)" The new rule makes it quite clear that the limit is 400' and we must agree to abide by that when/if we register.
Read the card a bit more closely and you will understand that the section you quoted refers to public and or governmental agency holders of a COA - Certificate of Authorization which DOES NOT apply to hobby operators.
Old 12-28-2015, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Seriously you do no good nor service to anyone reposting scare tactic links. Your time is better spent reading that link for the whole story...did you bother doing that before posting it?
Yes Your Majesty, I read the whole thing. I guess all of us should be reading only your posts. After all, you know all and see all. All of should just accept whatever the government decides to impose on us without question.

Sayonara.
Old 12-28-2015, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bokuda View Post
Yes Your Majesty, I read the whole thing. I guess all of us should be reading only your posts. After all, you know all and see all. All of should just accept whatever the government decides to impose on us without question.

Sayonara.
You may have read it, but you certainly did not understand it as evidenced by your confusion over the various altitudes mentioned on the card.
Old 12-28-2015, 01:54 PM
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Here is what you agree to when you register with the FAA. And that story on Heli freak doesn't jive.
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Last edited by TimJ; 12-28-2015 at 01:58 PM.
Old 12-28-2015, 02:04 PM
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porcia83
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bokuda said:

Yes Your Majesty, I read the whole thing. I guess all of us should be reading only your posts. After all, you know all and see all. All of should just accept whatever the government decides to impose on us without question.

Sayonara.


I won't sugarcoat it...it is hard having all the right answer s all the time. It's a burden I shoulder if for no other reason than to reach out and help you. And..I'm free. Lol..but seriously...you are wrong here and elsewhere, I'm sorry you can't see or admit that. It's nothing personal, and I'm not the only one noting it. Anyway..carry on.

Last edited by porcia83; 12-28-2015 at 03:49 PM. Reason: incrrectly quoted
Old 12-28-2015, 02:53 PM
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So can we say that hobby operators are limited to 400' and commercial operators can go higher that is the way I read things.
Old 12-28-2015, 03:12 PM
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I was glad to see your post TimJ.That was the first time I saw that registration certificate. I don't think a lot of people are looking at the whole picture.Bottom line is if you are a responsible AMA member you will not have a problem.The FAA had to come up with a plan to keep flyers from doing stupid things like flying over crowds of people,flying too close to airports etc.Now with some rules in place about flying a radio controlled aircraft the people doing the wrong things can be penalized which in the long run will protect the responsible flyers.
Old 12-28-2015, 03:36 PM
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Exactly Tom3097.

At the end of the day, we as AMA members should be following our rules. And our rules do not state anything about 400 feet, unless you are within 3 miles of an airport.

We are able to enjoy our flying as normal.
Old 12-28-2015, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ira d View Post
So can we say that hobby operators are limited to 400' and commercial operators can go higher that is the way I read things.
No. We as AMA members are to follow AMA safety guidelines. The only Altitude restriction we we have is as follows:
Not fly higher than approximately 400 feet above ground level within three (3) miles of an airport without notifying the airport operator
Old 12-28-2015, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TimJ View Post
No. We as AMA members are to follow AMA safety guidelines. The only Altitude restriction we we have is as follows:
Not fly higher than approximately 400 feet above ground level within three (3) miles of an airport without notifying the airport operator

OK, then why doesn't the FAA registration site say that? It is clear what it says and it does not spell out any exceptions. When you register you agree to fly below 400 feet. This is a clear back door effort on the part of the FAA to sneak a limit in. You are required to register and in order to register you have to agree to the operating limits, which are printed on your card. Nowhere does it mention any exemption from those operating guidelines for AMA members.
Old 12-28-2015, 04:15 PM
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Maybe the AMA could work in cooperation with The Feds and convert Muncie into a "RC Violator Correctional Facility" ...?
Old 12-28-2015, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R View Post
OK, then why doesn't the FAA registration site say that? It is clear what it says and it does not spell out any exceptions. When you register you agree to fly below 400 feet. This is a clear back door effort on the part of the FAA to sneak a limit in. You are required to register and in order to register you have to agree to the operating limits, which are printed on your card. Nowhere does it mention any exemption from those operating guidelines for AMA members.
Notice how the card states guidelines and also brings up our PL112 sec 336? Other than the "I agree to terms" on the previous page, I really think the FAA is after the having the ability to prosecute the guy flying over a fire. I don't think the FAA is going to be visiting AMA fields. The FAA knows the AMA community is safe.
Old 12-28-2015, 05:08 PM
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In order to qualify to register as a hobby pilot you have to be operating under section 336. And then, in addition, you have to agree to the operating limits. AMA members get no special dispensation because we are operating under 336. Everybody has to operate under 336 in order to even be considered a hobby flight.
Old 12-28-2015, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
Maybe the AMA could work in cooperation with The Feds and convert Muncie into a "RC Violator Correctional Facility" ...?
LOL
Old 12-28-2015, 05:42 PM
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I am going to try to make one of the meeting at the AMA Expo next month and try to ask a couple questions, One question is how does the FAA define operating under the programming of and do they intend to require AMA
membership? Also I hope they can clear up the 400' rule they have imposed as a condition of registration.
Old 12-28-2015, 06:00 PM
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I hope people will go there and ask their questions in a respectful manner, and skip the accusatory mannerisms we see here. Not saying this against anyone in general, just a comment. Blaming, sarcasm, or asking no win questions won't get folks anywhere. Hoping to get updates on how it's going there though. I know they will post vids and updates, but it's always better to get it from the folks on the ground
Old 12-28-2015, 06:02 PM
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400' above the ground gives 100 ft separation from big airplanes. Except for specialized uses like cropdusting, which has its own rules very stringent, a big airplane is not suppose to be closer to property or people within 500' Of course takeoffs and landings get to break that as does emergencies. A model cant be in the big airplane airspace and the big airplane is not suppose to be in the model airspace. I feel sorry for the glider and FF guys.
Old 12-28-2015, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TFF View Post
400' above the ground gives 100 ft separation from big airplanes. Except for specialized uses like cropdusting, which has its own rules very stringent, a big airplane is not suppose to be closer to property or people within 500' Of course takeoffs and landings get to break that as does emergencies. A model cant be in the big airplane airspace and the big airplane is not suppose to be in the model airspace. I feel sorry for the glider and FF guys.
Don't mourn those dudes yet...they will still be flying.
Old 12-28-2015, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R View Post
In order to qualify to register as a hobby pilot you have to be operating under section 336. And then, in addition, you have to agree to the operating limits. AMA members get no special dispensation because we are operating under 336. Everybody has to operate under 336 in order to even be considered a hobby flight.
Beautiful - the Perfect Storm
Old 12-28-2015, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TimJ View Post
Here is what you agree to when you register with the FAA. And that story on Heli freak doesn't jive.
How do you guys think this affects the FAA 400' "guideline"?

Guidelines - By definition, following a guideline is never mandatory. Guidelines are not binding and are not enforced.
Old 12-28-2015, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R View Post
Read the card a bit more closely and you will understand that the section you quoted refers to public and or governmental agency holders of a COA - Certificate of Authorization which DOES NOT apply to hobby operators.
Correct. I did miss that.
Old 12-28-2015, 08:54 PM
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Here is a potential definitive answer as to why the U.S. government fears drones
http://www.wired.com/2015/02/white-house-drone/
Old 12-29-2015, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
I hope people will go there and ask their questions in a respectful manner, and skip the accusatory mannerisms we see here. Not saying this against anyone in general, just a comment. Blaming, sarcasm, or asking no win questions won't get folks anywhere. Hoping to get updates on how it's going there though. I know they will post vids and updates, but it's always better to get it from the folks on the ground
I doubt you will. Most people act differently when a screen and keyboard isn't in front of them.

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