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Four Hundred Feet?

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Four Hundred Feet?

Old 01-01-2016, 09:42 PM
  #51  
combatpigg
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Originally Posted by Maximilionalpha View Post
Just from slowing down the video and viewing it, I can most assuredly tell you, that the private plane, is, below 500ft, but just barely. He's also more diagonal to you then he is vertically above you. Question is, what's the tallest structure close by your property, because he's supposed to be 500ft above the tallest ground structure....unless, (and there are exceptions to this rule), he's coming in for a landing, or taking off from the airport. From the looks of how the plane was flying, he was going in for a landing.
The plane is headed straight for the busiest shopping center in town.
There is a fairly tall cell phone tower that he flew [more or less] above.The tower is easily taller than 50 feet, closer to 100 feet I'll bet.
Old 01-01-2016, 09:46 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
The plane is headed straight for the busiest shopping center in town.
There is a fairly tall cell phone tower that he flew [more or less] above.The tower is easily taller than 50 feet, closer to 100 feet I'll bet.
Oh, well in that case, the FAA advises people to notify them in such instances, because that is in violation of Part 91.119, of the FAR, but other than doing that, I'd go out to the airport and try to find out from the pilots, their reason(s), for flying so low, over populated areas. I have a few friends that are private pilots and I've posed the same questions to them, because I'd occasionally have small planes flying lower than 500ft over the field where I used to fly at a lot and I used to never like flying under 1000ft! They all pretty much told me the same reasons, as to why.

Last edited by Maximilionalpha; 01-01-2016 at 09:52 PM.
Old 01-01-2016, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob2160 View Post
Here is another perspective of 18 inches against a Cessna 152.

I've flown here for 20 years, sharing the space with full scale planes [like Paul Allen's WWII fleet] and never experienced what I would call any close encounters and this has been with much larger and faster models than this one.
Maybe I'm just getting old.......
Old 01-02-2016, 10:09 AM
  #54  
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Could not resist having a little fun with this. Given that the measured relative length of an object is directly proportionate to its distance from the viewer one can determine what it's relative size will be at any given distance without having to actually place it at that distance, in this case 500 feet. Using two known measures, in my case a 76" dresser (better yet, use your plane's wingspan) and a 12" ruler, hold the ruler at arm's length, close your non-dominant eye and back away from the object until the length of the ruler equals the length of the object. Measure the distance from you to the object, in my case 86". Solve the equation X = 12(distance in inches of the object at arm's length-could be any length you choose)*86(measured distance in inches from object when covered by 12" held at arm's length)/500(distance in question in feet)*12(converting feet to inches). In this case the 76" dresser would be the same length as 0.172" held at arms length. Wider and it is below 500 feet, wingspan shorter it is above 500 feet. This technique will vary somewhat for each individual depending on the length of their arm and the circumference of their eye, but will give you a very quick and fairly accurate estimation of altitude. What amazed me is just how small (equivalent to looking at a .172 inch wingspan plane at arm's length) a 6+ foot wing span plane appears at 500" Verify it for yourself, if I doubled the distance I was standing from the dresser to 172" it was indeed covered by 6" on the ruler.
Old 01-02-2016, 11:05 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Lifer View Post
I've been flying for a long time without any altitude limit except the limits of my vision. Now that we have a Federally imposed altitude limit the question arises, just how does one determine a 400 foot altitude?
How will the Model Airplane Police come to my field and factually determine I have exceeded 400 feet?
I have thought about measuring a 400 foot string and attach a helium balloon to it and have someone from a distance away letting me know when I exceed the 400 foot level.
Are there devices that can determine my altitude other than an on-board device?
Any thoughts?
For the OP. Why not just use a bit of trig to get a fairly decent estimate? A little bit of Pythagorean, the right triangle, can get you close. Flying 400' out looking 45 degrees up and you'd be ~400' high. You can calculate it using 30-60-90 degree triangles also. I don't heave telemetry but I've used trigger it enough to guestimate my altitudes since two of the fields we fly at are within 5nm of an airport.
h
Old 01-02-2016, 12:41 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by dspeers View Post
Could not resist having a little fun with this. Given that the measured relative length of an object is directly proportionate to its distance from the viewer one can determine what it's relative size will be at any given distance without having to actually place it at that distance, in this case 500 feet. Using two known measures, in my case a 76" dresser (better yet, use your plane's wingspan) and a 12" ruler, hold the ruler at arm's length, close your non-dominant eye and back away from the object until the length of the ruler equals the length of the object. Measure the distance from you to the object, in my case 86". Solve the equation X = 12(distance in inches of the object at arm's length-could be any length you choose)*86(measured distance in inches from object when covered by 12" held at arm's length)/500(distance in question in feet)*12(converting feet to inches). In this case the 76" dresser would be the same length as 0.172" held at arms length. Wider and it is below 500 feet, wingspan shorter it is above 500 feet. This technique will vary somewhat for each individual depending on the length of their arm and the circumference of their eye, but will give you a very quick and fairly accurate estimation of altitude. What amazed me is just how small (equivalent to looking at a .172 inch wingspan plane at arm's length) a 6+ foot wing span plane appears at 500" Verify it for yourself, if I doubled the distance I was standing from the dresser to 172" it was indeed covered by 6" on the ruler.
It's true and some people can instinctively judge distance accurately while others have no concept of it.

I was flying a 600mm size Drone at a New Years Eve for a group of spectators. A Qantas A330 flew directly overhead. They appeared roughly the same size in the sky. Some of the spectators actually thought they were going to collide.
Old 01-02-2016, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximilionalpha View Post
Oh, well in that case, the FAA advises people to notify them in such instances, because that is in violation of Part 91.119, of the FAR, but other than doing that, I'd go out to the airport and try to find out from the pilots, their reason(s), for flying so low, over populated areas. I have a few friends that are private pilots and I've posed the same questions to them, because I'd occasionally have small planes flying lower than 500ft over the field where I used to fly at a lot and I used to never like flying under 1000ft! They all pretty much told me the same reasons, as to why.
If they are within the circuit area then a pilot can request a low level (bad weather) circuit for training purposes. Also stress of weather is another valid reason they might fly below 500ft.

Last edited by Rob2160; 01-02-2016 at 12:47 PM.
Old 01-02-2016, 12:54 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Rob2160 View Post
If they are within the circuit area then a pilot can request a low level (bad weather) circuit for training purposes. Also stress of weather is another reason they might fly below 500ft.
The airport managers completely ignored my request to pass the word about flying low in this vicinity.
The usual approach to land is 5 miles to the east of where you saw this guy putting along.
If he had an engine outage where you saw him and he tried to make a 5 mile "bee line" glide back to vacant airport property, could he have made it on a calm day over power lines, 100's of cars, etc....?
Old 01-02-2016, 05:59 PM
  #59  
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Ok, now that 400 feet is law, a few things to consider. If you are flying in or near a large population center you will have conflicts with civil or commercial aircraft if you repeatedly fly above 400 feet. The question is why would you want to endanger your r/c plane, or the lives of the people in the civil or commercial plane. I am a commercial pilot and we frequently fly as low as 1500 feet as we approach the airport to land. Civil planes are frequently seen flying at 500 feet or a bit higher and no one is going to give them a violation them because there is a tower sticking up 200 feet nearby. The odds of anyone reporting you for exceeding 400 feet are very remote, but could you live with the consequences of a midair with a civil plane? I recently talked to 2 people in the AMA safety office and the basic thought is "fly smart" , which is my advice to all.
Old 01-02-2016, 06:40 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Lifer View Post
Before the thread degrades into a small group of people arguing, I'd still like to find out how the altitude can be determined by the average person or how the authorities can verify my altitude from the ground.

Right here. This is what the cops will have. Good price too. We may all need one of these.

https://jet.com/product/detail/9f193...CzQRoC4dXw_wcB
Old 01-02-2016, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
Right here. This is what the cops will have. Good price too. We may all need one of these.

https://jet.com/product/detail/9f193...CzQRoC4dXw_wcB
Here's another. Eek! it's from those reckless ignorant drone people. http://www.instructables.com/id/The-...ino-altimeter/
Old 01-02-2016, 07:08 PM
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I've got a question for everyone and then I'm off this thread, because it's run it's course...before the media started calling these aircraft drones, what were you calling them???
Old 01-02-2016, 07:11 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Here's another. Eek! it's from those reckless ignorant drone people. http://www.instructables.com/id/The-...ino-altimeter/
That's odd, because I know some glider dudes who were using something very similar at least 10 years ago...way before drones became popular. Looks like technology transcends boundaries, even "reckless ignorant" people. Well, some at least.
Old 01-02-2016, 07:13 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Maximilionalpha View Post
I've got a question for everyone and then I'm off this thread, because it's run it's course...before the media started calling these aircraft drones, what were you calling them???
Helis?
Old 01-02-2016, 07:41 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
That's odd, because I know some glider dudes who were using something very similar at least 10 years ago...way before drones became popular. Looks like technology transcends boundaries, even "reckless ignorant" people. Well, some at least.
Good for you, so provide a pointer to where to where folks can buy one.
Old 01-02-2016, 07:55 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Maximilionalpha View Post
I've got a question for everyone and then I'm off this thread, because it's run it's course...before the media started calling these aircraft drones, what were you calling them???

Rewind the tape way back and we had Maynard Hill with his .60 powered, fixed wing autonomous model fly across the Atlantic.

We also had the military working at it with their big, ugly Unassisted Autonomous Vehicles [I think that's what they called them, or something stupid like that].

We also had the Rutan Bros. involved with a solar powered autonomous plane for gathering weather data if I remember that deal correctly.

I'm not sure when the term Drone first came into popularity [at this forum], so I'm not much help..!!

but at the bottom of the page there is a forum search function where you can look through thread titles.

I DO think the term DRONE is a perfectly accurate and powerful descriptor for planes that are capable of flying into a stadium while I'm sitting outside in my car having a beer..
Old 01-02-2016, 08:04 PM
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Too bad the guys who were making the HOWFAST? and HOWHIGH? onboard data collectors quit selling them. I don't think they offered telemetry, but you could look at your highest readings after the plane landed.
If you did this enough times, you could train yourself to be a better judge of height.
I think I demonstrated earlier how easy it is to eat up 400 feet, even with a tiny plane that I was intentionally trying to be safe with.
I don't see why, [with proper coordination] that we can't be allowed more vertical space.
Old 01-02-2016, 08:15 PM
  #68  
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Telemetry altitude data in real time has been around a long time. My A9 TX will do it. I have a Jeti with voice modulation that will tell you what it is. Real time.

That was not the original question though. Comes back to enforcement. What will the cops point at your plane to tell you you are too high? Bet the speed trap guns won't work!

This is clearly another reason not to register. I would never agree to these terms. Amazing how all of this feels like Obamacare.
Old 01-02-2016, 08:40 PM
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It is not full scale aircraft they are clearing the skies for. I am going to guess the sky is going to be quite busy with UAS aircraft.
Old 01-02-2016, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
It is not full scale aircraft they are clearing the skies for. I am going to guess the sky is going to be quite busy with UAS aircraft.
I can put on my H.G. Wells goggles to see into the future and visualize all sorts of "skeet shooting" of the pizza delivery drones and the Amazon Drones, and that will create a "Ground Swell" of support for universal gun confiscation.
Old 01-02-2016, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Good for you, so provide a pointer to where to where folks can buy one.
It doesn't get any easier than this:

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/inde...&product_id=60
Old 01-02-2016, 09:54 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Good for you, so provide a pointer to where to where folks can buy one.
Familiar with this tool called Google? So easy even a lawn ornament can do it!
Old 01-02-2016, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
Too bad the guys who were making the HOWFAST? and HOWHIGH? onboard data collectors quit selling them. I don't think they offered telemetry, but you could look at your highest readings after the plane landed.
If you did this enough times, you could train yourself to be a better judge of height.
I think I demonstrated earlier how easy it is to eat up 400 feet, even with a tiny plane that I was intentionally trying to be safe with.
I don't see why, [with proper coordination] that we can't be allowed more vertical space.
It's a shame Winged Shadow Systems is no longer making them.
Old 01-03-2016, 04:33 AM
  #74  
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If we know the distance from our observation point to the launch pad (d) and the angle at which we can see the top of the rocket's trajectory (θ), we can calculate the altitude with the following equation:
Old school rocketry stuff.

Mike
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Old 01-03-2016, 07:04 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by thesandman56 View Post
Ok, now that 400 feet is law, a few things to consider. If you are flying in or near a large population center you will have conflicts with civil or commercial aircraft if you repeatedly fly above 400 feet. The question is why would you want to endanger your r/c plane, or the lives of the people in the civil or commercial plane. I am a commercial pilot and we frequently fly as low as 1500 feet as we approach the airport to land. Civil planes are frequently seen flying at 500 feet or a bit higher and no one is going to give them a violation them because there is a tower sticking up 200 feet nearby. The odds of anyone reporting you for exceeding 400 feet are very remote, but could you live with the consequences of a midair with a civil plane? I recently talked to 2 people in the AMA safety office and the basic thought is "fly smart" , which is my advice to all.
As far as I know "we" have been flying smart for decades. If we are flying within 5 miles of a major airport ....notify them. When we are flying regardless of altitude, always yield to full scale aircraft.... reduce altitude and steer clear .

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