franklin_m

I'm in agreement that had AMA not made MRs part of "us" (in what I believe to be an attempt to stem the tide of aging membership), they gave up the ability to draw a bright line distinction between AMA members and non members - with AMA members being arguably more likely to fly safely. Optics matter I think, and MRs are so visibly different and instantly recognizable, it would have been nice to say "if it looks like this, it's not our members." But now, the public, the media, regulators, and legislators are lumping us all together - MRs, helis, and fixed wing.

As for the bill that passed the Senate. Read subsection "B" of the Special Rules on Model Aircraft. The part titled "updates." It allows the FAA to convene a working group to update the operational definition/limits in subsection "A". Now, remember the last time the FAA got stakeholders together - the registration - how's that worked out? Why would we think AMA would have any more power against Google, AOPA, Airline Pilots, City Managers groups, etc. on operational limits than they had on registration?

I think AMA got outfoxed again. Bill looks like Senators are throwing AMA a bone, but in the end, it turns out to be quite the opposite.

franklin_m

For those that need the link, here's a link to what passed the Senate:

FYI, first part reads like a tax bill (it is), the FAA stuff is attached.

https://www.congress.gov/amendment/1...ment/3679/text

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

On one hand you say basically say the AMA isn't as powerful against the other involved interests, and then in the next breath say they got outfoxed. Should anyone expect them to be on par with those titans of industry? Remind me again who else is in there looking out for our interests?

rcmiket

+1

Mike

rgburrill

I am certainly in agreement with the position that the AMA screwed up bad accepting and promoting FPV and have said so many times over many years. Being realistic, however, since it was not squashed when it first came out it is now a super major power in our community. Unfortunately it will be the primary driver for increased AMA enrollment. Before turning on the flamethrower you should realize that MRs and FPV are opening up a whole new area of racing and that will attract younger fliers. As I said in another thread even ESPN is getting into the racing end of FPV now. Racing requires organization and locations and that means more clubs even if dedicated to just racing. It also means insurance. Sadly it is just what AMA needs to grow.
Take a look back at rcunivers to see how things have changed. It started primarily as forum for pilots with a small amount of others. Now you can go one day without new, popular threads on tanks. And a large number of threads on cars and trucks. We, the model airplane pilots, are being left in the dirt.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The weather has been nice enough to fly here for the past couple weeks and I have yet to see a MR.
In fact, I saw no MRs last year either.
Or the year before that.
When Hula Hoops and Frisbees were a huge fad, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing some.
Where IS this huge, untapped market that the AMA couldn't resist gambling our future for...?

cj_rumley

After scanning through this, I found bright spot in a section pertaining to micro-drones, in contrast to the depressing pile of horse manure in the parts dealing with model aircraft - only winner if that is intact when the bill gets passed is the CBO enterprise. The micro-drone exemption looks like it could be a bypass around that regulatory manure pile, consistent with your freedom to engage in future model flying pursuits as you have in this forum outlined in your personal plans, and which I may also consider seriously. If the aircraft is under 2 kg, as are about 80% of what I fly currently, the regulatory environment would be about the same as it was before Mr AMA went to Washington. Even if you are flying them over people, and engaging in a commercial activity. I'm feeling a lot better about 'embracing' drones now, and will try not to refer to my smaller 'model airplanes' as such any longer. Thanks to the support from the drone manufacturers (in China) for getting some legislation in the interest of freedom in process in the US Congress.

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

It's the COMMERCIAL UAS users/manufacturers. THEY won't fade. The toy fad crap MR's WILL, IMHO.
PROBLEM IS: Whether it fades or grows, the FAA, Congress, and the general public NOW have a regulatory "bucket" to toss us into. In my estimation, the Feces have Struck the Rotary Air moving device with GREAT vigor.... and WORSE - with the FULL EMBRACE and support/encouragement of the very organization that was supposedly "our" voice In the wilderness.

THEY ARE NOTHING MORE THAN TRAITORS TO THEIR OWN ROOTS!!!!

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

rgburrill - Perfect analysis of this forum, I think. + 1

rcmiket

Time will tell but so far I've seen no big jump in AMA membership due to MR's or the masses attending these multi rotor events. I keep hearing about sponsors and cash prizes but no spectator numbers to be found. Unless they can grab spectators it will fail. The whole ESPN deal will be broadcast on the web with a abridged version shown on ESPN 3 not main stream yet by any means. My local experience is the 6 or 8 guys locally who race go from place to place till their run off by the city or land owner. They want nothing to do with the local clubs ( a open invitation was given to them by our club) or the AMA.

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

You don't see anything positive about FPV because you aren't looking, be in events, event coverage here and elsewhere, or 250,000 in prize money, you see it all through one prism. Doesn't matter, even many of the "traditional modelers" can see as plain as day it's on the rise. Unless you have access to membership numbers, not sure where you are getting any data on increase or decreases in membership, or the reason for either of those. Even downplaying a major broadcaster like ESPN getting involved. What has your club, or any others in the area tried to do for those 6 or 8 local guys flying place to place. Anyone show them what it's like to fly at a field...or do they get the same response we seem to hear from people who visit clubs with arfs and foamies. Could that be any part of the reason we might not see an explosion of membership increases?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Went back and read the article...it's actually well written and full of not only good news, but fantastic news. Can't help but note the author has said many of the same things I've actually said about what's going on with clubs, and how much more they can do to grow this hobby.

The article is pretty positive overall, and a lengthy one at that. I hope people take the time to read it. It's over 3720 words long, but you but you took one 10 word sentence out of context.

impulse09

My Feedback: (3)

SEC. 2124. SMALL UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SAFETY STANDARDS.

``(h) Exclusions.--This section shall not apply to unmanned aircraft systems that are not capable of navigating beyond the visual line of sight of the operator through advanced flight systems and technology, unless the Administrator determines that is necessary to ensure safety of the airspace.''

MTIPilot

My Feedback: (121)

Couldn't agree with you more. Autonomous drones and FPV should have been left alone to either be governed directly by the FAA or from a separate organization. There very operation exceeds by far, the definition of a traditional model aircraft/helicopter. I did write my senator trying to explain the differences and why our hobby should be left alone. The AMA unfortunately posted last night that some as they put it "detrimental" aspects of the Senate language remain. I'm not done trying to make a difference however because I feel our hobby is too valuable to simply surrender. Let's hope in the end common sense will prevail.

rcmiket

Seems like the FCC should also be involved with dealing with FPV.

Mike

Sprucedeuce

Here in Tulsa we've had two really great RC shops fold up, Wings and Things and Ultimate RC so that left us with the franchise retailer Hobby Town and unless you are in the market for the latest plastic fantastic with 3 way auto pilot and built in applause button, or Quad Flawper you are out of luck. It's a complete crap shoot when you go there to find even the most basic supplies. We still have well attended clubs and flying sites but if you like to build engine powered sportplanes getting the materials, kits, fuel etc..., isn't as convenient as it used to be. I still build and fly planes built from kits, or plans or my imagination but if all that's available are the kind of prebuilt items I think you have people participating in a transient fashion and not staying with the hobby as in years past. Also the economy surely plays a factor as well when you had all the foreclosures and people lost their building spaces.

MTIPilot

My Feedback: (121)

Couldn't agree more Bob. My only hope here is that somehow common sense will once again prevail when it becomes apparent that traditional model aircraft are not the threat. Bob Brown and company screwed us and I find it hard to believe they were just naïve. I firmly believe the AMA saw some giant potential for more members. How stupid was that! Admittedly, there are drone users (whom I know!) that have operated at my field and have respected the rules. We all know however that they're not the problem, it's the idiots who operate them in a reckless manner. When it was obvious these operators were a potential menace that couldn't be controlled, the AMA should have disconnected from them and state "autonomous drones aren't what we represent". There would have been nothing wrong with that. Instead, they went the opposite direction because Bob Brown and company saw a cash cow in their eyes. That's like believing some thug would join the NRA!

Sprucedeuce

I believe if this bill passes that there the AMA will not exist as it does now in two to three years if at all as there will be no more reason for it to exist if no one can fly

MTIPilot

My Feedback: (121)

When you see pictures like this, the problem is understood.

init4fun

AMEN !!!!!!!

That one picture perfectly exemplifies what's become of the organization that's supposed to look out for US who built it , rather than those who will never have a use for it !

RichardGee

My Feedback: (156)

These discussions usually devolve into a political pie toss, so I have decided to toss out a doozy... 21st century America is a different place than is was just a few decades ago (when I was but a wee lad). No longer do we have representatives who respect, uphold, and fight for INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.. now it's all about COLLECTIVE RIGHTS. Case in point: When a drone is spotted at 4000 feet, rather than find the perpetrator and throw the book at him, our representatives propose ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL legislation they claim is designed to "protect all of us." But the fact is, it DOES NOT protect all of us, if some of us enjoy the freedom of flying our RC model aircraft at the same fields and in the same ways we have been doing safely for DECADES. Dittos gun control. But a single incident now drives the frightened masses clamoring for Big Brother to "protect us" and thus, a large net is thrown over everyone and everything that even hints of 'danger' and we end up with fewer individual liberties. Call it philosophical; call it a sign of the times; call it what you will, but in the end, it ALWAYS comes to the same thing - as government grows, our liberties shrink. Hell, our Founders warned of this 200+ years ago, but with the Fed now the largest 'too-big-to-fail' enterprise in the U.S. and $20T in debt, do you think we've learned anything? Clearly, no. We are moving towards a world where everything will be "virtual" such that people can experience things without actually doing anything. There are now so many laws on the books that it is NOT an exaggeration to say that in the course of a normal day, you've probably broken several of them. It's all about control, which always involves taxes and assessments so that those in control can remain in control AND increase in size and scope. Ostensibly we establish government to protect me from you, and you from me, but it's always perverted by the quest for power and control under the illusion of "safety for the masses." I could list a dozen more examples... I'll never give up or give in, but it seems (like Rome) every great civilization legislates itself out of existence...

cj_rumley

Yes, and the same can sometimes be said of private pseudo-governments that protect us from the established government.

CESSNA 421

My Feedback: (17)

Yes, MTIPilot's photos about sums it up!!!!!

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

But you can't see the drool from that picture angle...

raptureboy

Wonder where the AMA defenders are now? Clubs are now being forced into educating the public that they are not flying drones and having to fight to keep their flying sites. I guess we will all have to move to Muncie to fly when our clubs get closed down and we get kicked off our flying sites.