Drone VS Aircraft - Mid Air Collisions
07-08-2016, 09:16 AM
#301
Speaking of an open mind......broadbrush generalizations about how challenging a quad to build and fly were thrown out the other day, is a revision on that forthcoming? I think I asked if you could build, wire, program and fly one. You never answered. Could you, or would there be "no challenge". Hydro was good enough to give a partial answer but tried to confuse the issue ad one of desire, rather than technical skill or challenge.
I actually was was going to stay away from that because it really has no bearing on the topic. When we get to that level we are in a hobbiest classification and neither you nor I are the issue. It's the people that walk into Best Buy or Circuit City and walk out with a drone and the assumption they can fly wherever they please that is the issue. However since you appear to think I am lacking in some sort of manner,
40% Extra 330, 150cc twin 2 stroke power. 10 amps of RX battery power feeding a power distribution box that incorporates servo synchronization for the 13 500 oz digital servos. Airplane was given to me after being landed in a vineyard, it's all composite and was repaired, painted and I have been flying for 3 years. Results from the last contest and the aerobatic sequence flown.
Self designed Macchi 202 Warbird racing airplane. YS 115 4 stroke powered. Fiberglass fuselage from my fabricated molds, foam wing using my own airfoils. Score sheet shows airplane and I in second place with a few notables farther down the page.
Reed Falcon pictured with a modern Pattern airplane at the last pattern contest I competed in. The Falcon was an all wood build, the kit cowl and wheel pants were ABS so they were used to make molds to manufacture glass/CF parts. Covering is Monokote. I placed 4th with my " underdog " little
Bipe.
Helicopter I helped design in 1994. No stabilization other then a mechanical rate gyro on the tail.
Motor and speed control for the current project.
Could I build and fly your MR? Yea I think so. Do I have interest in doing so? Nope, as I said not enough challenge.
07-08-2016, 09:58 AM
#303
[QUOTE=Chris P. Bacon;12232493] 
Originally Posted by franklin_m 
There are some that are so steadfastly rooted in the past, that they can't see that the operating environment has fundamentally changed.
The operating environment hasn't changed at all, unless you include global warming. What has changed is how it's being used.
But it has, and vastly. 15 years ago, there were no foamies, electric planes were the exception and the few ARFs out there were only bought by those that couldn't build a kit for whatever reason. Today, the sky's are full of park fliers, quads and foamies, flown by people that don't have a clue as to what they're doing
The 80 year safety history was established in a vastly different technological and cultural time.
I wouldn't call last year a "vastly different technological and cultural time."
I wouldn't either, but at the same time, you didn't have quads on the shelf at almost every store, many equipped with FPV and people that think it's their god given right to fly whenever, however and where ever they want.
Just like is happening with other aspects of our society, the ability to film something and then have millions of people see it within a few seconds creates powerful incentive to act first and think later.
Disagree. Poor judgement has existed since the beginning of time. In fact, the same could be said posting on public Internet forum.
And the need to feed the ego isn't part of the equation? How many times have you heard someone say "Hey, watch this!!!!" just before their plane goes in nose first or they crash their bike into a guard rail or barrier? Poor judgement has always been around but, with the advent of the internet and social media, it's been given a place that enhances the ego feeding, leading to even poorer judgement
The addition of easy to fly sUAS, BLOS technology, and GPS aided self navigation have only made it even easier for irresponsible behavior - irresponsible behavior that is resulting in hundreds of sightings per year.
Sounds like your government has failed you. Why not run for office and invoke change?
This is one time I can PARTIALLY agree with you. Only a few years ago, producing a programmable BLOS or FPV R/C model would have resulted in legal action to get it pulled off the market due to the threat of terrorist using it as a stand off weapon. Now, the market is flooded with them and, as one family has already shown, they can be rigged to kill. In this era of mass killings and suicide bombings, a pre-assembled ready to fly quad is the perfect vehicle for a terrorist. Buy a large multi-rotored "drone", equip it with an automatic pistol and a couple of pounds of C4 with a remote detonator, you have the perfect terror weapon. To me, these should have been outlawed before they hit the market.
[QUOTE]
See my comments in blue
Originally Posted by franklin_m There are some that are so steadfastly rooted in the past, that they can't see that the operating environment has fundamentally changed.
The operating environment hasn't changed at all, unless you include global warming. What has changed is how it's being used.
But it has, and vastly. 15 years ago, there were no foamies, electric planes were the exception and the few ARFs out there were only bought by those that couldn't build a kit for whatever reason. Today, the sky's are full of park fliers, quads and foamies, flown by people that don't have a clue as to what they're doing
The 80 year safety history was established in a vastly different technological and cultural time.
I wouldn't call last year a "vastly different technological and cultural time."
I wouldn't either, but at the same time, you didn't have quads on the shelf at almost every store, many equipped with FPV and people that think it's their god given right to fly whenever, however and where ever they want.
Just like is happening with other aspects of our society, the ability to film something and then have millions of people see it within a few seconds creates powerful incentive to act first and think later.
Disagree. Poor judgement has existed since the beginning of time. In fact, the same could be said posting on public Internet forum.
And the need to feed the ego isn't part of the equation? How many times have you heard someone say "Hey, watch this!!!!" just before their plane goes in nose first or they crash their bike into a guard rail or barrier? Poor judgement has always been around but, with the advent of the internet and social media, it's been given a place that enhances the ego feeding, leading to even poorer judgement
The addition of easy to fly sUAS, BLOS technology, and GPS aided self navigation have only made it even easier for irresponsible behavior - irresponsible behavior that is resulting in hundreds of sightings per year.
Sounds like your government has failed you. Why not run for office and invoke change?
This is one time I can PARTIALLY agree with you. Only a few years ago, producing a programmable BLOS or FPV R/C model would have resulted in legal action to get it pulled off the market due to the threat of terrorist using it as a stand off weapon. Now, the market is flooded with them and, as one family has already shown, they can be rigged to kill. In this era of mass killings and suicide bombings, a pre-assembled ready to fly quad is the perfect vehicle for a terrorist. Buy a large multi-rotored "drone", equip it with an automatic pistol and a couple of pounds of C4 with a remote detonator, you have the perfect terror weapon. To me, these should have been outlawed before they hit the market.
[QUOTE]
See my comments in blue
07-08-2016, 10:01 AM
#304
Originally Posted by franklin_m There are some that are so steadfastly rooted in the past, that they can't see that the operating environment has fundamentally changed.
The operating environment hasn't changed at all, unless you include global warming. What has changed is how it's being used.
But it has, and vastly. 15 years ago, there were no foamies, electric planes were the exception and the few ARFs out there were only bought by those that couldn't build a kit for whatever reason. Today, the sky's are full of park fliers, quads and foamies, flown by people that don't have a clue as to what they're doing
The 80 year safety history was established in a vastly different technological and cultural time.
I wouldn't call last year a "vastly different technological and cultural time."
I wouldn't either, but at the same time, you didn't have quads on the shelf at almost every store, many equipped with FPV and people that think it's their god given right to fly whenever, however and where ever they want.
Just like is happening with other aspects of our society, the ability to film something and then have millions of people see it within a few seconds creates powerful incentive to act first and think later.
Disagree. Poor judgement has existed since the beginning of time. In fact, the same could be said posting on public Internet forum.
And the need to feed the ego isn't part of the equation? How many times have you heard someone say "Hey, watch this!!!!" just before their plane goes in nose first or they crash their bike into a guard rail or barrier? Poor judgement has always been around but, with the advent of the internet and social media, it's been given a place that enhances the ego feeding, leading to even poorer judgement
The addition of easy to fly sUAS, BLOS technology, and GPS aided self navigation have only made it even easier for irresponsible behavior - irresponsible behavior that is resulting in hundreds of sightings per year.
Sounds like your government has failed you. Why not run for office and invoke change?
This is one time I can PARTIALLY agree with you. Only a few years ago, producing a programmable BLOS or FPV R/C model would have resulted in legal action to get it pulled off the market due to the threat of terrorist using it as a stand off weapon. Now, the market is flooded with them and, as one family has already shown, they can be rigged to kill. In this era of mass killings and suicide bombings, a pre-assembled ready to fly quad is the perfect vehicle for a terrorist. Buy a large multi-rotored "drone", equip it with an automatic pistol and a couple of pounds of C4 with a remote detonator, you have the perfect terror weapon. To me, these should have been outlawed before they hit the market.
See my comments in blue
07-08-2016, 11:08 AM
#306
http://www.natureworldnews.com/artic...rly-deaths.htm
Total BS study from the University of Florida. There are bad studies on global warming. Years ago college studies said our coast would be underwater by now.
Total BS study from the University of Florida. There are bad studies on global warming. Years ago college studies said our coast would be underwater by now.
07-08-2016, 11:12 AM
#307
I actually was was going to stay away from that because it really has no bearing on the topic. When we get to that level we are in a hobbiest classification and neither you nor I are the issue. It's the people that walk into Best Buy or Circuit City and walk out with a drone and the assumption they can fly wherever they please that is the issue. However since you appear to think I am lacking in some sort of manner,
40% Extra 330, 150cc twin 2 stroke power. 10 amps of RX battery power feeding a power distribution box that incorporates servo synchronization for the 13 500 oz digital servos. Airplane was given to me after being landed in a vineyard, it's all composite and was repaired, painted and I have been flying for 3 years. Results from the last contest and the aerobatic sequence flown.
Self designed Macchi 202 Warbird racing airplane. YS 115 4 stroke powered. Fiberglass fuselage from my fabricated molds, foam wing using my own airfoils. Score sheet shows airplane and I in second place with a few notables farther down the page.
Reed Falcon pictured with a modern Pattern airplane at the last pattern contest I competed in. The Falcon was an all wood build, the kit cowl and wheel pants were ABS so they were used to make molds to manufacture glass/CF parts. Covering is Monokote. I placed 4th with my " underdog " little
Bipe.
Helicopter I helped design in 1994. No stabilization other then a mechanical rate gyro on the tail.
Motor and speed control for the current project.
Could I build and fly your MR? Yea I think so. Do I have interest in doing so? Nope, as I said not enough challenge.
40% Extra 330, 150cc twin 2 stroke power. 10 amps of RX battery power feeding a power distribution box that incorporates servo synchronization for the 13 500 oz digital servos. Airplane was given to me after being landed in a vineyard, it's all composite and was repaired, painted and I have been flying for 3 years. Results from the last contest and the aerobatic sequence flown.
Self designed Macchi 202 Warbird racing airplane. YS 115 4 stroke powered. Fiberglass fuselage from my fabricated molds, foam wing using my own airfoils. Score sheet shows airplane and I in second place with a few notables farther down the page.
Reed Falcon pictured with a modern Pattern airplane at the last pattern contest I competed in. The Falcon was an all wood build, the kit cowl and wheel pants were ABS so they were used to make molds to manufacture glass/CF parts. Covering is Monokote. I placed 4th with my " underdog " little
Bipe.
Helicopter I helped design in 1994. No stabilization other then a mechanical rate gyro on the tail.
Motor and speed control for the current project.
Could I build and fly your MR? Yea I think so. Do I have interest in doing so? Nope, as I said not enough challenge.
07-08-2016, 11:22 AM
#308
Yes but he is reporting FAA reports as credible. From their last batch of reports they obviously are not. I would not trust any mid air reports unless they are in ASRS and there are more than a few there.
07-08-2016, 11:24 AM
#309
07-08-2016, 11:26 AM
#310
http://www.natureworldnews.com/artic...rly-deaths.htm
Total BS study from the University of Florida. There are bad studies on global warming. Years ago college studies said our coast would be underwater by now.
Total BS study from the University of Florida. There are bad studies on global warming. Years ago college studies said our coast would be underwater by now.
07-08-2016, 11:29 AM
#312
So voice reports to controllers from ATP holders, military pilots (the "Hook" callsign), and other commercial pilots aren't credible?
07-08-2016, 11:29 AM
#313
You wanted me to show where college studies are bad. Well the global warming studies are bad. There are studies that hamburgers are bad for you, others that they are good for you. Low fat diet is good, low fat diet is bad. Basically the studies come out which ever way the people giving out the grant money wants it to come out. And most grant money goes to college's and university's. There is a huge industry for bad science.
07-08-2016, 11:34 AM
#314
No the AMA found that the datafile from the hundreds of reports from the FAA last summer were full of irrellivent reports and some simply reports of legit operations. Such as flying over a flying field and reporting seeing a model airplane approximately 500 feet below them when they were at 1,000 feet. Besides the FAA is government they lie and give out secrets and let any bigwig off if they commit a crime. It's a total power play.
07-08-2016, 11:44 AM
#316
No...I said "Ok, then share with us an example applicable to this discussion [emphasis added]."
Again, we're talking about drones (informal definition) / sUAS (formal FAA definition) vs. aircraft. I don't see global warming in that anywhere.
Again, we're talking about drones (informal definition) / sUAS (formal FAA definition) vs. aircraft. I don't see global warming in that anywhere.
07-08-2016, 11:46 AM
#318
Buy and fly = ARF.
07-08-2016, 11:48 AM
#320
No the AMA found that the datafile from the hundreds of reports from the FAA last summer were full of irrellivent reports and some simply reports of legit operations. Such as flying over a flying field and reporting seeing a model airplane approximately 500 feet below them when they were at 1,000 feet. Besides the FAA is government they lie and give out secrets and let any bigwig off if they commit a crime. It's a total power play.
"We counted 158 incidents in which a drone came within 200 feet or less of a manned aircraft (two-thirds of all Close Encounters in which a concrete drone to-aircraft proximity is given), 51 incidents in which the proximity was 50 feet or less, and 28 incidents in which a pilot maneuvered to avoid a collision with a drone." - Center for the Study of the Drone, Bard College
Last edited by franklin_m; 07-08-2016 at 11:56 AM.
07-08-2016, 11:51 AM
#322
When the schools are making studies that are faked, what difference does it make!
07-08-2016, 11:53 AM
#323
ASRS reports
Looks like just 35 near miss and other violations reported. Many reported by the violators.
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnl...x?server=ASRSO
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnl...x?server=ASRSO
07-08-2016, 11:54 AM
#324
Speaking of an open mind......broadbrush generalizations about how challenging a quad to build and fly were thrown out the other day, is a revision on that forthcoming? I think I asked if you could build, wire, program and fly one. You never answered. Could you, or would there be "no challenge". Hydro was good enough to give a partial answer but tried to confuse the issue ad one of desire, rather than technical skill or challenge.
there is no programming ability required for any of the popular flight controllers.
the most difficult part of the entire operation of an MR is getting the ESC for each motor plugged into the proper port on the flight controller.
and yes, i have built a few, some from "kits" some from "scratch"
and sport, none of mine weigh less that 5 pounds at take off. some weigh in the 18-22 pound range.
the unit itself builds very similar to an erector set.
07-08-2016, 11:57 AM
#325